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help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 14 2021 4:35am
by Amber
Hi,

I was wondering if there is anyone that may be able to help me with my project either wholly or on part of it? I was working with Dave Garland from Stendec Racing before he sadly passed away. I have ideas from this but unfortunately we weren't at a point where I have something that I could take to CAD or progress with it alone as I don't have the skills. I am trying to create an off-road kart for want of a better word, three or four wheeled, with double wishbone suspension, mountain bike hydraulic disk brakes and powered (hub motor) so I can regain freedom of exploring the great outdoors again and also function in cities and be compact for taking travelling (airlines and car/small van) and as lightweight as possible. I am 33 and used to do downhill biking, hiking and loved exploring. I now have ME, I have all my limbs and my body moves like normal, I can walk but my body is like a faulty battery so not for very far or very long. I am unable to pedal a bike or self propel a wheelchair due to this and I require suspension. If you have any questions about me or the project please ask.

I have a market research document I can add as well as a wish list and possible mountain bike parts I have identified that could be used. On market products either don't have suspension which I need or the off road capable ones have been made very heavy and very large needing a trailer to transport. Instead of investing in a product that doesn't meet my needs I thought I could use that money to try to create a product that does.

some on market products-
- colours shockblade wheelchair (http://colourswheelchair.com/shockblade/) has double wishbone suspension where it is all under the seat (see attachment) but unless someone helps me alter the axle plate then I am unable to add mountain bike disk brakes to it and a needs a power source.
-Mountain Trike has some suspension and a pusher can control the chair or the person sat in the chair can steer/brake. This is useful as I need frequent rest breaks- https://www.mountaintrike.com/
-downhill gravity bikes that have four wheels and good suspension e.g. Stacy Kohut- https://www.pinkbike.com/news/stacy-koh ... -2009.html. Athos racing quad USA or project enduro-ttps://www.pressreader.com/australia/mountain- ... 6584031013
-four wheeled mobility ones- Boma 7, Quadrix Axess, Bowhead corp, Cimgo by Tessier.
Three wheeled ones- Trekinetic, Advenchair.com (easy way to alter seat angle), Mountain trike. Grit freedom chair, Mouvly Traces (great seat and seat angle altering method) https://www.mouvly.com/trace-s-sur-mesure/
-very portable- e-foldi

Thank you for thank you the time to read my post. I am UK based but the internet enables collaboration regardless of location.
Amy

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 14 2021 10:38am
by neptronix
What is this condition called 'ME'?

I think what you're looking for requires some pretty advanced fabrication and a lot of experimentation.
Generally speaking, it would be loads easier to use a trike ( bicycle frame ) as your starting point. You're much more likely to find one with full suspension.

At ES, we do not have a strong base of people building mobility devices.

You may want to look up this site if you haven't seen it, for inspiration and support:
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/
2021-09-14 09_34_33-POWER WHEELCHAIRS and ADAPTED MOBILITY VEHICLES.png
2021-09-14 09_34_33-POWER WHEELCHAIRS and ADAPTED MOBILITY VEHICLES.png (108.14 KiB) Viewed 183 times

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 14 2021 6:06pm
by SlowCo

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 14 2021 8:24pm
by Greendog
hello im from somerset , by coincidence I have been designing a similar project for a friend who had a car accident and stroke and can no longer walk, be great get out on trails again, just sketches and approx parts cost so far no timescale,
The of the shelf solutions seem overly expensive,
your design would depend a lot on how off road you intend to go,
my first idea was to join to two ebikes together with the seat slung inbetween them and found had been done well already by this dude
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_1SgmD-v10c
( same one SloCo just posted while I was writing this :thumb: great minds)
downside its not a very compact design, but probably be the cheapest less labour intensive way to get electric four wheeler , could probably build a way to quickly split the two bikes and middle seat then could use a normal two bike car rack ,
but i would prefer not to have to do any disassembly to transport
would be great just be able fold seats down in the car put whole thing in,
for this reason 20 inch wheel probably the one spec I can nail down other bonus of this is lots if cool tyres available,
wishbone swing arms great for off road ability and easy tune ride height , but typically make vehicle wide , wouldnt look as nice but four front suspension forks one on each corner would give a narrower E4bike ( thats what I'm gonna call em electric quadra cycle bit long n nerdy :D ) plus point of using forks is the axle is supported both sides ,much stronger than a one sided hub and easy to add brakes
, check the suspension articulation on this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHEyDrsN9s
prob not need be that flexy :) but do think a 2 front wheel hub motor set up be optimal for power delivery , benefit of front wheel drive is it won't want to do power wheelies like rear drive so much less likely to tip up and over backwards whilst assending steep hills , would also give nice weight balace 60 percent body weight to rear balanced by weight of motors in the front bit of weight on drive wheels helps traction and braking ,
front wheel drive good because it pulls you round corners and up things , rear wheel drive better for high speed easy to control drifts,
talking of speed how fast do you intend on going?
4bikes like the super bike and Stacy kohuts bike which I really like are what you'd need for a high speed machine like average 30mph
Stacy gives good example of what that design of suspension is capable off with those 10ft high jumps,
for most I imagine a less high performance machine be adequate say 15 mph tops those mountaintrikes are nice elagant design probably very capable despite having 3 wheels,
think my friend would like something looked more like a bike though,
and 4 wheels is def cooler n better , on othe hand the kits that make a wheelchair into a front wheel drive trike are undeniably an easy solution
and capable enough for most situations, but a bit expensive and never going to be a high speed off road machine,
a chassis frame like on superbike could be made by someone with welder and grinder skills no need for cad , and wishbones can be sourced from small petrol quad pit bikes to keep cost down , if you wanted silver plate that holds both swing arms like on front of Stacy's bike would need be on cad to water jet cut one, good luck have fun :mrgreen:

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 10:19am
by SlowCo
Amber wrote:
Sep 14 2021 4:35am
Hi,
I was wondering if there is anyone that may be able to help me with my project either wholly or on part of it?
Not sure if you need a stable, non-tilting trike/quad for stability or if you have enough stability to use something like this:


Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 3:14pm
by Greendog
holy twin forks batman :mrgreen:

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 3:38pm
by markz
How would you corner on the novelty bike?

Imagine a 3wd e-bike.
Say two 45H ("3kw") front motors and a 55H ("5kw") rear
Then if your crazy enough to get twin forked, your crazy enough to throw in a Cyclone 5-26kw mid drive kit onto the bottom bracket.
SlowCo wrote:
Sep 17 2021 10:19am
[youtube]yIwovnd8KJQ

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 3:51pm
by SlowCo
markz wrote:
Sep 17 2021 3:38pm
How would you corner on the novelty bike?
By using the handlebar... :wink:

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 7:28pm
by markz
Yeah have one front wheel in the air
The whole camber/intoe/outtoe or whatever auto mechanics say would be so out of whack.

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 7:51pm
by Greendog
does look like might lift one of the front wheels if you cornered hard but I think the design is more to stop bike falling over when stopped or low speed ,
do you mean toot angle ,which stands for toe out on turns , basically makes the wheel on the inside of the turn steer a bit more than the outer and stops it from scuffing as the turning circle is sharper on which even wheel is on the inside of the turn same reason cars have differentials on axles , don't think haveing multiple motors on a quad ebike is that crazy especially if four light hub motors giving four wheel drive of road more traction the better :mrgreen:

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 8:03pm
by markz
I guess, I don't know what they call it but when I go around a corner, my body banks to the inside of the corner, and the tire traction is on the side of the tire not the middle.

Auto axles with certain lockers can get tricky when turning, bump stop with the gears of the locker binding because the inside wheel goes slower then the outside wheel.




Greendog wrote:
Sep 17 2021 7:51pm
does look like might lift one of the front wheels if you cornered hard but I think the design is more to stop bike falling over when stopped or low speed ,
do you mean toot angle ,which stands for toe out on tuns , basically makes the wheel on the inside of the turn steer a bit more than the outer and stops it from scuffing as the turning circle is sharper on which even wheel is on the inside of the turn same reason cars have differentials on axles , don't think haveing multiple motors on a quad ebike is that crazy especially if four light hub motors giving four wheel drive of road more traction the better :mrgreen:

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 8:17pm
by Greendog
wonder how well the suspension would help that, would still like a go on it just for the mad looks prob leave seat to looks comfy :) I'm intrigued if any of these great ideas be inspirational to Amber's project still think joining two bikes gonna be easiest for me maybe two tough steel tourer frames nice big triangle and good to weld being steel :banana:

Re: help for full suspension mountain e-trike

Posted: Sep 17 2021 9:04pm
by ZeroEm
That bike idea may not be a bad one. Don't think you would need a such a large bike with 26-29" wheels. Think of some thing like a 20" - 24" wheels and small frames. Join the bikes like a folding wheel chair. The alignment would be a nightmare. I'm sure the videos don't show all the problems.