First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

A place to discuss the repair, design, and customization of the bicycle itself, not the powertrain ( battery, controller, motor, etc ).
lnanek   100 W

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by lnanek » Dec 16 2022 11:50pm

Don't ebikes with carbon forks tend to have much thicker ones than the one in the OP? E.g. Luna's:
23t32t-min-1.jpg
23t32t-min-1.jpg (74.33 KiB) Viewed 283 times
And that's not even a front hub model. So all that thickness is just to handle the speed from the middrive. I'd expect a front hub carbon fork to be even more reinforced.

Tony01   100 W

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by Tony01 » Dec 18 2022 6:18am

Front hubs are a bad choice.
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by tomjasz » Dec 18 2022 7:27am

Tony01 wrote:
Dec 18 2022 6:18am
Front hubs are a bad choice.
That’s just silly. They have their place. My front GD and a DD are veritabl3 tractors and have thousands of grocery hauling miles on them. I have 4 other mid drive bikes but for simple builds a front drive motor is a great option for many. I really like the regen braking on my DD front trailer pulling “tractor”. Powerful and effective braking.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by tomjasz » Dec 18 2022 7:28am

lnanek wrote:
Dec 16 2022 11:50pm
Don't ebikes with carbon forks tend to have much thicker ones than the one in the OP? E.g. Luna's:
23t32t-min-1.jpg

And that's not even a front hub model. So all that thickness is just to handle the speed from the middrive. I'd expect a front hub carbon fork to be even more reinforced.
That is one fugly ride.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by Tony01 » Dec 18 2022 8:01am

tomjasz wrote:
Dec 18 2022 7:27am
Tony01 wrote:
Dec 18 2022 6:18am
Front hubs are a bad choice.
That’s just silly. They have their place. My front GD and a DD are veritabl3 tractors and have thousands of grocery hauling miles on them. I have 4 other mid drive bikes but for simple builds a front drive motor is a great option for many. I really like the regen braking on my DD front trailer pulling “tractor”. Powerful and effective braking.
That’s cool, my car has TENS of thousands of miles hauling groceries and even it is RWD. So?

Yeah the variable regen on my rear hub was extremely effective as well, seen peaks of nearly 10kw regen. Soooo?

Front hubs are a bad choice for many reasons. The best reason is if you only buy very cheap kits and motors and want to run a few of them rather than a single strong mid or rear hub.
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by ZeroEm » Dec 18 2022 8:11am

Front hubs are useful, Trikes, Snow, Sand, etc.....
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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by Tony01 » Dec 18 2022 8:24am

ZeroEm wrote:
Dec 18 2022 8:11am
Front hubs are useful, Trikes, Snow, Sand, etc.....
They’re only useful if you are going very slow. In an ideal maximum acceleration situation there would be no weight on the front tire. Nobody is really riding in the sand all the way to work or hauling their groceries in the sand. On snow you have limited traction and a front hub steals some of it that you really need for steering. The only time they’re useful is if you have a few underpowered setups and want to increase your load capacity by adding a front hub to an existing rear hub setup.

But, if I was running a trailer I’d run rear hub and trailer hub(s), and setup a delay on the trailer for throttle and delay on the bike rear hub for regen.
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by lnanek » Dec 18 2022 3:28pm

tomjasz wrote:
Dec 18 2022 7:28am
That is one fugly ride.
Interestingly, it seems like the goal of that carbon fork was to provide some amount of suspension without any moving parts:
Full Composite suspension fork for fat bikes.
Zero maintenance fork by removing all "moving parts", virtually removing upkeep.
Military spec S2 glass fiber.
60mm of travel with progressive spring rate
https://lunacycle.com/lauf-carbonara-carbon-fat-fork/

Maybe that's why it looks so weird. Irrelevant to me anyway since if I have a motor assisting me I see no point in paying extra for lightweight carbon parts. They are welcome on my human-power-only bikes, though. :)

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by ZeroEm » Dec 18 2022 3:33pm

by Tony01 » Dec 18 2022 8:24am
ZeroEm wrote: ↑Dec 18 2022 8:11am
Front hubs are useful, Trikes, Snow, Sand, etc.....
They’re only useful if you are going very slow. In an ideal maximum acceleration situation there would be no weight on the front tire. Nobody is really riding in the sand all the way to work or hauling their groceries in the sand. On snow you have limited traction and a front hub steals some of it that you really need for steering. The only time they’re useful is if you have a few underpowered setups and want to increase your load capacity by adding a front hub to an existing rear hub setup.

But, if I was running a trailer I’d run rear hub and trailer hub(s), and setup a delay on the trailer for throttle and delay on the bike rear hub for regen.
From a high power two wheel perspective your right. Staying in line with the thread.
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2013 Nissan Leaf S 7 bars 331.5w/KM

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by avandalen » Jan 20 2023 3:55am

DogDipstick wrote:
Dec 06 2022 8:49pm
What is the expected purchase price of this item? Hundreds of dollars or more?
[/quote]

Just about $150 or so.

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by avandalen » Jan 20 2023 4:02am

Chalo wrote:
Dec 13 2022 7:45pm
I would avoid putting in the "idiot washer" hole, because it takes out material that's under high tensile stress when the axle is trying to pry the slot open.

Also I'd orient the slot facing forward, so reaction forces from the disc brake aren't in the same direction as the slot opening.

And if increase the width of the material around the corners of the axle slot. Have a look at open end wrenches for well iterated designs that do the same kind of job.
avandalen wrote:
Dec 13 2022 4:36pm
Chalo wrote:
Dec 13 2022 1:42pm

>>>> That's a CPSC requirement for bikes, not forks. Lawyer lips aren't the only way to fulfill that requirement; they're just the most annoying way that's hardest to get rid of.
So it isn't mandarory?
Not for forks. It's also at odds with what you're trying to accomplish in terms of compatibility with a range of hub motors.

If you make both sides with identical IS disc tabs, then the right side can be used to anchor a torque arm (which you can also make and sell). Or silly people can put together dual disc setups.

Even if you don't do that, you should incorporate some mounting point that can be used for a torque arm. Best if it's also able to serve another purpose, for instance a fender mount, rack mount, or disc tab.
Thank you for your advice
The strength becomes the same as with wrenches and everything will be tested and oversized
there will also be a mounting point for an extra torque arm

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: How many hub motors are sold?

Post by avandalen » Jan 20 2023 4:08am

Chalo wrote:
Dec 13 2022 10:31pm
amberwolf wrote:
Dec 13 2022 9:31pm
avandalen wrote:
Dec 13 2022 8:59am
I think, that all hub motors for front forks have axle diameters of 12mm with a flat side of 10mm (also 1000W motors) else they will not fit to any fork.
I don't know that all the front motors have only 12mm "tall" axles...I'd have to research that.
I have a Leaf front motor with a 14mm axle. I have a Crystalyte front motor with a 14mm axle.

It's easy enough to provide a fork tip that will work equally well with 12x10, 14x10, and 16x10mm axles.
My carbon fork is for hub-motors with a 12mm axle, for very large hub-motors, weight saving no longer makes sense.

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by avandalen » Jan 20 2023 4:12am

Tony01 wrote:
Dec 18 2022 6:18am
Front hubs are a bad choice.
Not for e-bike motors up to 250W
Look here: https://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/hub-mo ... ight-ebike
and here https://www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/hub-mo ... ive-vs-hub

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by avandalen » Jan 20 2023 4:21am

On this video you can see what I mean with a lightweight ebike, this is my Maxun One solar bike.

This is what my carbon front fork is meant for.

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avandalen   100 W

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by avandalen » Jan 20 2023 4:40am

This is another demonstration of my (lightweight) Maxun One solar bike

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E-HP   10 GW

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by E-HP » Jan 24 2023 8:01pm

avandalen wrote:
Jan 20 2023 4:40am
This is another demonstration of my (lightweight) Maxun One solar bike
Well that's great video. Short, but clearly demonstrates a proof of concept. In order to study it more carefully, you can turn the speed down in the YouTube settings to 0.25X. I detect some sinusoidal oscillations at around the 5 to 6 second mark. Maybe due to the flexing.

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Re: First custom carbon fork special made for hub motors

Post by avandalen » Jan 25 2023 5:12am

E-HP wrote:
Jan 24 2023 8:01pm
avandalen wrote:
Jan 20 2023 4:40am
This is another demonstration of my (lightweight) Maxun One solar bike
Well that's great video. Short, but clearly demonstrates a proof of concept. In order to study it more carefully, you can turn the speed down in the YouTube settings to 0.25X. I detect some sinusoidal oscillations at around the 5 to 6 second mark. Maybe due to the flexing.
Yes, the panels are flexible and therefore indescribably strong. More than 10,000 km driven without any problems.

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