Torque plate with caliper mount?

ynot

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Mar 5, 2022
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In the process of putting two "Jump bike" hub motor wheels on a freighter reverse trike, which I bought new in Mexico. Because of the size differential between the current axles and the smaller jump axles, will machine torque plates to secure the wheels. Since the trike only has a coaster brake, and the wheels and hub motors have disks, am thinking it would be good to incorporate the brake calipers onto the torque plates. My question is, is there a preferred location for the caliper, on the circumference of the rotor, given that the calipers should be placed above the axle in order to remove the wheel.
 
Do you have an image to show us so we can get an accurate idea of what you are endeavoring to accomplish?

:D :bolt:
 
This is the manufacturers picture, sorry not savvy enough to just get the pic.
www.manufacturastrejo.com
Plan is to mount two of the 250/350 watt jump motor wheel sets for the front two wheels.
The dropouts are about 5/8" so was thinking that a torque arm could be made that also would allow mounting of the brake calipers.
Have an HF mini mill so can make precise slots for axles.
Trike only comes with coaster brake so brakes are needed.
Last night looking at clamping dropouts, am starting to think I should treat as two separate projects.
My original question is where on the rotor circumference is best for calipers, since I found no talk of this I assume that it is not a problem where they go.
 
ynot said:
This is the manufacturers picture, sorry not savvy enough to just get the pic.
www.manufacturastrejo.com
Plan is to mount two of the 250/350 watt jump motor wheel sets for the front two wheels.
The dropouts are about 5/8" so was thinking that a torque arm could be made that also would allow mounting of the brake calipers.

You won't need torque plates if the frame is steel. They look to be steel, but only the mini actually states it. If it's steel, you just need to fabricate the disc mount and weld it to the frame.
 
Thanks for that EH, I will have to make new dropouts as those are for a 5/8" axle. But If I do not need torque plates, using low power motors, that would be great. Will make a sandwich of the existing plates with 1/8"+ steel plate on each side, so four per wheel, effectively 1/4" per side of the wheel. It would be simple to make one of the plates clamping so may do that. Now that my Bike is rideable, will begin making the trike's plates tomorrow.
 
ynot said:
Thanks for that EH, I will have to make new dropouts as those are for a 5/8" axle. But If I do not need torque plates, using low power motors, that would be great. Will make a sandwich of the existing plates with 1/8"+ steel plate on each side, so four per wheel, effectively 1/4" per side of the wheel. It would be simple to make one of the plates clamping so may do that. Now that my Bike is rideable, will begin making the trike's plates tomorrow.

Sorry, I didn't catch the 5/8" axle part. I thought you meant the dropouts were 5/8" thick.
A 5/8" axle would leave close to a 1/4" gap between the axle flats and dropouts. I think it's better to get some precise measurements of the dropouts before doing too much more planning. The measurement between the dropouts is important too.
 
EH, I will make new dropouts, I can machine a precise fit for the axle, the flats are 10 mm apart can use a 10mm cutter, then add a couple of thousandths" for a clearance fit, will bolt them to the existing dropout lugs since I do not weld. Will line them up with a laser to make sure the wheels do not crab.
The dropout width is fine. Have placed the wheels in the dropouts the interesting thing will be making different caliper mounts left side and right side, as the frame is different on the inside from the outside, on one side the disk will be to the inside and on the other the disk will be to the outside, same with the power wires. If the motors were brushed, might explore running one in reverse but that is out of the question.
Cheers.
 
After thinking about this for a while, what I would do is look at the position of the disk brake calipers on motorcycles. Motorcycles are heavy and produce more inertia than a bicycle. However, cargo bikes can get heavy and much like a motorcycle create a good amount of inertia. So if you mimic where motorcycle calipers are mounted you should be ok.

Also, if you PM Chalo and politely ask his opinion on this thread, he might give you better information then I can.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/ucp.php?i=pm&mode=compose&u=11537

:D :bolt:
 
Good thinking E_B, looks like TDC or as close to it that the forks will allow, on the front wheels. Rears are all over the place depending on frame. TDC keeps them out of the mud as far as possible.
 
By my observations, most bicycle and motorcycle front disc brake calipers are mounted in the 2:00 - 2:30 o'clock position (looking from side, bike facing to the left).
Allows for secure mounting, safe transmission of force to the fork, and ample clearance for wheel/disc removal/installation.
 
99t4 said:
By my observations, most bicycle and motorcycle front disc brake calipers are mounted in the 2:00 - 2:30 o'clock position (looking from side, bike facing to the left).
Allows for secure mounting, safe transmission of force to the fork, and ample clearance for wheel/disc removal/installation.

Dont forget "looking pretty."

Decoupling the torque moment from braking from the rear swing arm is what motorcycles do. This means a fully floating caliper with a anti-torque lug in the swingarm ( all racing motorcycles this day in age).. ( those caliper mounts with the lug and the hole) ( the Dukes, Kwakers, Hondas, Soozooks, Aprillias, Yammys, ect...)

Or a torque rod back to the sprung frame ( like that one bicycle, I am trying to find the name of it.. A Santa Cruz maybe? ) ( and all racing motorcycles in the '80s and 90's).

This is " what motorcycles do".
When racing, you do not want your braking action to affect: interact with teh suspension of the vehicle: Ie jacking the suspension upon brake action. If your bicycle is never reaching 190mph on the curves,... you are not suicidal braking.. to the flick-in... this wont matter much... Plus, you are gong to jack the front suspension on any brake application on a two wheeled sprung vehicle..It is called " Brake Dive"... On a suspension-less Trike this matters... like... almost not at all. Negligible.

Where, around the rotor, this caliper is placed, has much less impact to the brake performance. A little.. but much much less.

Early disc brake calipers were in front of the fork leg on top of the disc. This placed the caliper in an area of high air flow for better heat removal. Calipers on most modern motorcycles are mounted to the rear of the fork leg. This reduces the angular momentum of the fork assembly and improves low speed handling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_braking_systems#Caliper_mounting

See the lug? See the rod? See how it works?

If you do not account for this action, anything you do downstream wont make a difference. ( where the tork moment acts on the assy on applications)( where the brake sits, making any sort of difference)... On a rear brake.

There is the reason they went to great lengths with the rear wheel control onthe motocycles. Jack. Jack and ...Bounce. Youdont want a wheel jacking, and or bouncing, upon a brake application.

Santa Cruz

https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-ZA/bike/v10/1

Santa Cruz " Bullit"

[youtube]mbLaTGfZMb0[/youtube]

Early CB 900F example
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cb900+brake+rod&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_All=1

early CBR example

https://www.ebay.com/itm/123587487046?fits=Model%3ACBR1000F&epid=1126972497&hash=item1cc6636546%3Ag%3AuToAAOSwUVFcNipd&LH_ItemCondition=4

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193376439829?hash=item2d06224e15%3Ag%3Aot0AAOSw5eReZxDH&LH_ItemCondition=4

Early Kawasaki example (ZEDX9R) ( 20mm axle)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203790993340?hash=item2f72e3c7bc:g:H5sAAOSwQuRh4QmO

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233479684281?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item365c7940b9:g:DxEAAOSwX3FaH9hf&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSRAQR8FABHjfpFoyRlXhWmeNhhmUVoFc6xn51yqE2iQCgFXHCO2JgLMPoiymERDnqPE0QwdiuA%252Bv5GiBdnLlQEaeF58N9v8VAiWq48PqKmv%252FFOKC3bO9kzqxm6A1iJvDTbvtoH6%252BKQkBjwBMhHzu1bn9j4boyiTRqN3wGNjYoPG4uG5s8N14cCqLd2jErOlJvSyqLzwivo84KNHlp6Hqg3AHXYB9NEVhD3dRZvTuFOEkASzSLwe9iz0UTWN%252BuXRPrFGUSLbRlf0jKjMj2u4lB5gVQC4491UOqbG7ps97V%252FkT0ufbDBhQ%252F71ymGCP7JaBDn5OKvSz5FzDmTzNIwMUaLELeaiV8FtNrU5AhyNnaaXy5XQvGTWiJUdwPBY7BdoIU6oSpr3Bgb9YsgxdC7%252BcPinWXpJkp8ANBUjaIHezmUbHS0awwDlIUO1oiTB9RqjVQvDTSvF4XvYZOSWNBoU1N6bfaIzUopll%252B%252FK9vZ9qPTnOlWpMmw4%252FwURDFhfSHacousPufE1vYMJCi5dpNtDmJEFGKHDv7pMn9YTKvQgF2LBZSOM0neSLQm7k4QGMgBWIsWu9jEbpuvtsjw%252BAUdsFPhiObk5KuXsflxjI1NOC%252FdeSv9VKqzqIRCvDV8LiMbtdXDrfEjr%252FaeGH%252Bo1RM1xg4huuEnyoCrdO0hgiydbHTxpa0AaG7i5cr2J8QLItsaashkr54ROzEuyoB5Q66wzeY3eI3ysafIH%252FJVvkzwT6BtBcvWShMyVyIQLVpUmlLm0A152y54O7uDd5WIGj7RKdlHoHqfoWlDaqmZL4tn4pHvQGf5oSOD9yM82UrMCMDajqf3MdSwnV%252B8Zh0R%252FU8qsRvDQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMkK7A3fFf

Later Kaw example (ZEDX10R) (25mm axle)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165238897126?hash=item26790179e6:g:xDAAAOSw3x9hvMMh

S1000RR example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/403355635518?hash=item5de9de8f3e:g:1o0AAOSwst1huRbY

Coincidentally, the Ducati racing motorcycles recently changed back to a rear brake Torque Rod.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2019/01/11/exactly_what_does_ducati_s_torque_arm_do.html

The arm works in tension, not compression. When the caliper squeezes the disk most of the momentum is translated to a linear force.
i-SzVKjj2-L.jpg
 
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