Hyena
10 GW
Man, stealth should build a bike like that! 
E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners
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Emmett
10 kW
Sounds great Rix. Well done.Rix said:
What's the hub motor weigh? I think lighter weight hub motors are the future for off-road fun. If Stealth go this path then it's a good move.
How is your hub motor cooled? Sorry if you already mentioned this elsewhere.
Hyena
10 GW
The hubs are just about 4.3kg. Cooling is passive but usually you munch the composite plastic gears before you'll burn the windings.
2kw is the max you can run in them unless you're very gentle. ~1500w is much better for longevity.
I think the new grin all axle DD hub motor is an interesting one for light weight and mid-power applications.
It's notably lighter than usual DD motors and is actually marginally lighter than even a large geared motor like this at 3.95kg.
But it'd take bursts of double what a geared motor will
2kw is the max you can run in them unless you're very gentle. ~1500w is much better for longevity.
I think the new grin all axle DD hub motor is an interesting one for light weight and mid-power applications.
It's notably lighter than usual DD motors and is actually marginally lighter than even a large geared motor like this at 3.95kg.
But it'd take bursts of double what a geared motor will
Rix
100 TW
Emmett said:
Jay answered most of the questions above. Am running 100ml ATF in the motor with great results. The controller gets way hot, but the motor feels cool. This kind of misleading though. Geared motors outer shells don't get that hot unlike DD, and the internal can be smoking hot. With the ATF, the outer shell feels perceptively warmer to the touch, but thats because the internal heat is being channeled to the shell more effectively.
Kepler
10 MW
Rix said:
Good use of some dead space though using the seat subframe. Perfect for a smaller controller.
Sure looks like the controller is internal on the P7. Easy to get a 6 FET up the front of the frame without effecting battery space / capacity. Not sure about 700W though. Not very Stealthbike like. My bet is 1500W with thermal roll back and 700W shipping power level to USA, 250W for lucky us and Europe. Speculation only of course :wink:
CJonaBttlrckt
100 W
Rix said:
Hi folks,
Been a while.
I can vouch for a lighter motor making a big difference to handling, though there is the trade off that the lighter motor is less tolerant of heat. Ferrofluid and a hubsink goes some way to redressing this.
I am yet to measure the weight difference between the original hub motor and the MXUS. It's around five kilo.
I would also go for a 17" or maybe 18" MC rim and not 19", as the larger tyre is more reliable [less prone to pinch flats] and handles better.
If I was purchasing a new Stealth bike I would go for a fighter instead of a bomber for off-road riding. Lighter for better handling in the bush and a few less kilos for the motor/battery to drag around.
On another matter, after 3.5 years, a total of 6700km, 600+ cycles and 5500+Ah it seems I could do with a new battery!
Interestingly I note in a previous post that there are batteries older than mine that are still doing 18Ah. I wish!
Following the last bike down-time I am now down to under 9Ah.
It seems my battery has deteriorated the most during the down-times that have averaged five weeks each and totalled about six months. Mostly warranted frame R&D.
So, any advice re battery replacement options here down under would be appreciated.
Thanks
Yeah, definitely agree with you on the lighter motor. The switch from the 8.5KG HS40xx motor to the 7.2KG Leaf motor on my Fighter has made a huge difference in handling, not to mention the updated motor design has less drag and higher efficiency.CJonaBttlrckt said:
If your keen to learn, I can hook you up with a wiring harness so you can buy a bunch of LiPo from Hobby King and make a pack. I recently helped Emmett do just that for his Fighter and so far he's lovin it.
PM me if your keen.
Apart from that, there's no real drop in plug and play options that are built to fit the Bomber/Fighter apart from a $2000+ replacement pack from Stealth.
The other option is a custom made 18650 pack...that will cost more though.
Cheers
Emmett
10 kW
Interesting times ahead. Sub 4kg motors with 1500W bursts sounds great - for agile handling and potentially very long range rides.Hyena said:
That Grin Tech "all-axle" motor is front only (with no sprocket drive) right?
Hyena
10 GW
Ah sorry Rix I forgot you added ATF. How does that go with the grease that's normally on the gears ?
Kepler, yeah I think you're right about the 1500w thing, below that and it just wouldn't be very inspiring to ride. Odd that they've gone with the P7 name then. I'm sure it'll all make sense in time
And yeah, re: controller in the seat sub frame - I actually achieved the best of both worlds doing this with an adaptto mini-e - it was tidy and out of the way AND in firm contact with the frame for added heatsinking so I knew when my leg started getting warm I was being too hard on it. haha
CJonaBttlrckt if you want a drop in 18650 pack I have 2 commercially made packs here for Alphas that would be suitable. They'd be lighter and higher capacity than what you're running now too.
PM me if you're interested.
Emmett, I'm sure the all axle motor will be made available to suit the rear end too. It's just a different side cover away
Kepler, yeah I think you're right about the 1500w thing, below that and it just wouldn't be very inspiring to ride. Odd that they've gone with the P7 name then. I'm sure it'll all make sense in time
And yeah, re: controller in the seat sub frame - I actually achieved the best of both worlds doing this with an adaptto mini-e - it was tidy and out of the way AND in firm contact with the frame for added heatsinking so I knew when my leg started getting warm I was being too hard on it. haha
CJonaBttlrckt if you want a drop in 18650 pack I have 2 commercially made packs here for Alphas that would be suitable. They'd be lighter and higher capacity than what you're running now too.
PM me if you're interested.
Emmett, I'm sure the all axle motor will be made available to suit the rear end too. It's just a different side cover away
Emmett
10 kW
As CD said, I've been loving LiPo brick power (Multistars) for some time now. Maybe a year. 18S2P setup. So 75V. Very good energy for the weight and volume.
I run the 6S balance lead for each brick to outside the frame head so I can monitor each one for good health, and after about 35 cycles they are still in very good condition. I've only balanced them twice and they were barely out. I charge (at 300W) to 74.4 volt and rarely need to drain below 67V for a good duration ride.
Compared to the stock battery (2014 when new) I get 152% in range (over 1400Wh). The 6 bricks are lighter weight (need to measure it) and output much more peak power and way less sag under continuous load (up steep hills). When I plug in the stock battery it can pump 4200W peak (just very briefly) while my LiPo setup can pump 6500W peak and over 4000W for a decent portion of the RPM range. With a fat SR241 trials drive tire on a ~32 Kg bike that's a lot of usable go forward. A super soft (trail friendly) foot print too.
I run the 6S balance lead for each brick to outside the frame head so I can monitor each one for good health, and after about 35 cycles they are still in very good condition. I've only balanced them twice and they were barely out. I charge (at 300W) to 74.4 volt and rarely need to drain below 67V for a good duration ride.
Compared to the stock battery (2014 when new) I get 152% in range (over 1400Wh). The 6 bricks are lighter weight (need to measure it) and output much more peak power and way less sag under continuous load (up steep hills). When I plug in the stock battery it can pump 4200W peak (just very briefly) while my LiPo setup can pump 6500W peak and over 4000W for a decent portion of the RPM range. With a fat SR241 trials drive tire on a ~32 Kg bike that's a lot of usable go forward. A super soft (trail friendly) foot print too.
Emmett
10 kW
Hyena said:
OK great. I'll watch that space.
I'd guess that a bath of ATF will lube gears better than any gel grease. Also Dex-VI TF is low viscosity and a very good lube. It's an excellent very low cost fork oil too.
Rix
100 TW
Hyena said:
The ATF kind of rinses the grease on the ring gear. But because of ATF's lubricity properties, gears are constantly wet, and the motor is a hair bit quieter, not by much though. I didn't post anything about because a few hundred pages back, Kep ran Ole Blue with a bafang and ATF and his findings were identical to what i had experienced. Its a little messy. What I did different was use high temp oil resistant silicone sealant to seal the side covers. Drilled 1 tiny holes on the freewheel drive side of the motor as close to center as I could get. I have 30ml syringes and measured out 3 and 1/3 injections of ATF. this hole also serves as a vent. Anyway I get a tiny bit of fluid that exits the motor based on the wet dirt I see after a ride, but its not much, and very little risk of getting it on the rear disk and loosing braking power.
Rix
100 TW
Kepler said:
That makes alot of sense. I can attest 1st hand that even though 1500w is low power wise by our standards on this forum, through a small light geared motor, its enough to be fun. I have often contemplated sticking with only lightweight lower powered machines because of the fun level. Fast forward this video to 3:10. Jay and I were riding yosemite and the camera doing the filming was on a bike with the same power train that I am running on the Beta. Jay was riding my Bomber and told me to crack the throttle for some single track speed footage. So I did, it came out great.
[youtube]DDwwWnW5uq0[/youtube]
Hyena
10 GW
Ah, yes that's the exact bit of footage I was referencing the other day when I mentioned the comparison between the 2 power levels on ES facebook. After you set off first I couldn't catch you on the bomber. You can actually see in that clip I ran wide a few times trying to catch up, but to no avail!Rix said:
Sorry I couldn't fast forward to 3:10 - I had to watch the whole thing again
That was such a good ride!
Allex
100 MW
What a beautiful place that is...Yosemite
On that note...Not that much Stealth related but perhaps I can take your bike for a ride
I am planing on a trip to US this summer with my Wife. Never been over there, so we would like to take a road trip from SanF to NY.
Not sure if we will make it as we have about 4 weeks for doing it.
I am thinking of buying a junk car, maybe some old american cabrio for 1-1,5k USD and then sell it once we are near NY. Is it even possible?
What do you think, is this a bad idea? I'm also thinking about renting. But I don't know how fun that would be. I really like the idea of cruising in a old car, that would be awesome!
On that note...Not that much Stealth related but perhaps I can take your bike for a ride
I am planing on a trip to US this summer with my Wife. Never been over there, so we would like to take a road trip from SanF to NY.
Not sure if we will make it as we have about 4 weeks for doing it.
I am thinking of buying a junk car, maybe some old american cabrio for 1-1,5k USD and then sell it once we are near NY. Is it even possible?
What do you think, is this a bad idea? I'm also thinking about renting. But I don't know how fun that would be. I really like the idea of cruising in a old car, that would be awesome!
st35326
1 kW
Hyena said:Ah, yes that's the exact bit of footage I was referencing the other day when I mentioned the comparison between the 2 power levels on ES facebook. After you set off first I couldn't catch you on the bomber. You can actually see in that clip I ran wide a few times trying to catch up, but to no avail!Rix said:
Sorry I couldn't fast forward to 3:10 - I had to watch the whole thing again
That was such a good ride!
Nice ride what trail in Yosemite was that?
Nice Rick so lucky to have Terrain like that. Florida's concrete Jungle flat. My V Box is fine switch Freewheel.. got pulled over by police today, the cop apologize for pulling me over just wanted two see what the hell my bike is. Now we're on first name basis. free pass through Highland Beach.
Rix
100 TW
Hyena said:Ah, yes that's the exact bit of footage I was referencing the other day when I mentioned the comparison between the 2 power levels on ES facebook. After you set off first I couldn't catch you on the bomber. You can actually see in that clip I ran wide a few times trying to catch up, but to no avail!Rix said:
Sorry I couldn't fast forward to 3:10 - I had to watch the whole thing again
That was such a good ride!
That was a great ride, one for the books for sure.
This was an excellent example of where light weight and maneuverability prevailed over shear power, provided one was to stay with in the path of the trail. With all the little 40-60 degree turns, I was able to maintain a higher level of terminal velocity. We were going about 27MPH during this segment, but the trail wasn't much wider than the tires and handle bars in places. When stuff is that tight, it doesn't matter who has the most power, but who can maneuver their machine the quickest. Being that the Bomber was pushing about 130 pounds, and the home built was maybe 54-57 pounds, changing directions required way less effort.
Rix
100 TW
st35326 said:Hyena said:[="Rix"] Fast forward this video to 3:10. Jay and I were riding yosemite and the camera doing the filming was on a bike with the same power train that I am running on the Beta. Jay was riding my Bomber and told me to crack the throttle for some single track speed footage. So I did, it came out great[/]
Ah, yes that's the exact bit of footage I was referencing the other day when I mentioned the comparison between the 2 power levels on ES facebook. After you set off first I couldn't catch you on the bomber. You can actually see in that clip I ran wide a few times trying to catch up, but to no avail!
Sorry I couldn't fast forward to 3:10 - I had to watch the whole thing again
That was such a good ride![/e]
Nice ride what trail in Yosemite was that?
Jay and I put on 23 miles that day, we were exploring and found trails that weren't on the local map. Ironically we were almost always in view of El Capitan or at least the part of it. To see all that Yosemite has to offer by Ebike, it would take 2 days to do it right.
Rix
100 TW
Allex said:What a beautiful place that is...Yosemite
On that note...Not that much Stealth related but perhaps I can take your bike for a ride
I am planing on a trip to US this summer with my Wife. Never been over there, so we would like to take a road trip from SanF to NY.
Not sure if we will make it as we have about 4 weeks for doing it.
I am thinking of buying a junk car, maybe some old american cabrio for 1-1,5k USD and then sell it once we are near NY. Is it even possible?
What do you think, is this a bad idea? I'm also thinking about renting. But I don't know how fun that would be. I really like the idea of cruising in a old car, that would be awesome!
You would be best off buying a beater through a dealership. They will provide a DMV moving permit for 30 days. this would save you a bunch of money on registration. Problem is, if you buy a vehicle in the US, you have to title it in your name before you can sell it. PITA for a 4 week road trip. for 1500 bucks, your best bet yet would be rent a care from say Hertz. Granted you wont be able to sell it when you get to NYC, but you wont be out several hundred bucks for insuring, registering and titling the vehicle so you can sell it.
Rix
100 TW
FL bomber said:
Yah that was a pretty cool reason to get pulled over. Glad your new freewheel solved the problem. Otherwise I would have had to apologize for being wrong, and then my rep would change to me looking like I was full of shit.
Allex
100 MW
Something like this:
whitebomber
10 W
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2016
- Messages
- 72
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Allex
100 MW
I like the hinged bottom hatch.
But 3y warranty on the frame now, I thought they had life time?
And I am not sure about power/weight ratio. So I need to test drive this one
New yamaha mid drive systems output around 600Watt and the speed is about 28mph chipped on a bike with the weight of 20kg.
But 3y warranty on the frame now, I thought they had life time?
And I am not sure about power/weight ratio. So I need to test drive this one
New yamaha mid drive systems output around 600Watt and the speed is about 28mph chipped on a bike with the weight of 20kg.
Allex
100 MW
Rix said:Allex said:What a beautiful place that is...Yosemite
On that note...Not that much Stealth related but perhaps I can take your bike for a ride
I am planing on a trip to US this summer with my Wife. Never been over there, so we would like to take a road trip from SanF to NY.
Not sure if we will make it as we have about 4 weeks for doing it.
I am thinking of buying a junk car, maybe some old american cabrio for 1-1,5k USD and then sell it once we are near NY. Is it even possible?
What do you think, is this a bad idea? I'm also thinking about renting. But I don't know how fun that would be. I really like the idea of cruising in a old car, that would be awesome!
You would be best off buying a beater through a dealership. They will provide a DMV moving permit for 30 days. this would save you a bunch of money on registration. Problem is, if you buy a vehicle in the US, you have to title it in your name before you can sell it. PITA for a 4 week road trip. for 1500 bucks, your best bet yet would be rent a care from say Hertz. Granted you wont be able to sell it when you get to NYC, but you wont be out several hundred bucks for insuring, registering and titling the vehicle so you can sell it.
Thx Rick, rental it is then...I might PM you if I have more Qs, hope you don't mind!
