Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Hyena » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:35 am

Yeah it gets done every few months, it's a workshop floor not my lounge room :P
Lots of built up flicked solder and wire strippings. haha
Because of my screwed back and stupid blood pressure issues I pretty much have to build stuff sitting on the floor :?
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby icherouveim » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:40 am

Hyena wrote:
PRW wrote:question: is there any reason not to leave the side covers off the Beta, and install say Gore-Tex panels internally, other than the difficulty of getting them to fit?

Unlike the stealth P7 the beta is designed to have the side covers fitted. Even if they were only a little bit structural the thinner side material that makes up the trellis shape warps a little with the welding process so they aren't totally flat and smooth.

On an unrelated note here's a time lapse video of an alpha frame coming together - with obligatory Benny Hill music :lol:



It seems you are a tough guy, that's why you like fast electric bikes!
You release all your inside hidden power there!
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby PRW » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:27 am

Hyena wrote:
PRW wrote:question: is there any reason not to leave the side covers off the Beta, and install say Gore-Tex panels internally, other than the difficulty of getting them to fit?

Unlike the stealth P7 the beta is designed to have the side covers fitted. Even if they were only a little bit structural the thinner side material that makes up the trellis shape warps a little with the welding process so they aren't totally flat and smooth.

Thanks Jay - so, I need 2 sets of your special grey side panels, please - you were going to check if you had some/ could get some made?
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:33 am

Since there were 3 Alpha's on this ride I figure I better cross post it here also.



I think this is possibly the most Alphas riding together yet!

Cheers
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Rix » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:05 am

Nice vid! what happened towards the end, did some one run out of battery?
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:46 pm

Rix wrote:Nice vid! what happened towards the end, did some one run out of battery?

Yeah, IanM ran out of juice a few km from the end. He was pushin his grey Alpha pretty hard though. If you look carefully in the video, most of the shots of him are him lifting the front wheel, or tearing up the dirt with his rear.
I'm actually running the exact same battery as him, 6 x 10AH multistars in 18S 2P config. I didn't run out of juice though and got back with a few % remaining. I put it down to a combination of the lower bike weight (Fighter vs Alpha), lower motor weight (MXUS vs Leaf Motor) and more efficient controller (Adaptto Mini-E vs 18Fet Infineon). I also keep my motor much cooler with my cooling fans, FF and heatsinks which would also help a bunch.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Rix » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:56 pm

lower bike weight (Fighter vs Alpha), lower motor weight (MXUS vs Leaf Motor) and more efficient controller (Adaptto Mini-E vs 18Fet Infineon).


No doubt this was crucial to your better range.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Lash » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:07 am

Great video cowardlyduck! Great watching you guys tear up some of those Canberra tracks!

I went for a quick spin today too around my old stomping ground in Bendigo. (1 min vid). Really need to get a go-pro someday.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Rix » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:23 am

Awesome vid Lash, sometimes keeping things simple yields excellent results, I present your video as evidence and rest my case.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:35 pm

Rix wrote:Nice vid! what happened towards the end, did some one run out of battery?


:oops: Yeah that was me, was having too much fun roosting everywhere. Paid the price for heavy throttle hand.

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Rix wrote:Nice vid! what happened towards the end, did some one run out of battery?

Yeah, IanM ran out of juice a few km from the end. He was pushin his grey Alpha pretty hard though. If you look carefully in the video, most of the shots of him are him lifting the front wheel, or tearing up the dirt with his rear.
I'm actually running the exact same battery as him, 6 x 10AH multistars in 18S 2P config. I didn't run out of juice though and got back with a few % remaining. I put it down to a combination of the lower bike weight (Fighter vs Alpha), lower motor weight (MXUS vs Leaf Motor) and more efficient controller (Adaptto Mini-E vs 18Fet Infineon). I also keep my motor much cooler with my cooling fans, FF and heatsinks which would also help a bunch.

Ha Ha CD you forgot to mention the fact that I'm probably 20kg heavier than you. What a bitch trying to pedal 44/12 gearing with no juice, was nice to receive a friendly push to help get back.
Loved the video CD by the way.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:37 pm

Rix wrote:Awesome vid Lash, sometimes keeping things simple yields excellent results, I present your video as evidence and rest my case.

+1 Lash, cool vid. Looks like there's some nice tracks to ride around there.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Hyena » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:22 pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:I'm actually running the exact same battery as him, 6 x 10AH multistars in 18S 2P config. I didn't run out of juice though and got back with a few % remaining. I put it down to a combination of the lower bike weight (Fighter vs Alpha), lower motor weight (MXUS vs Leaf Motor) and more efficient controller (Adaptto Mini-E vs 18Fet Infineon)

Ian was running higher peak power too, which is really the biggest determinant of battery life/range. It's simple maths and if you're drawing more power from the same battery it's going to go flat quicker. It's something people complain about all the time when upgrading to higher power. Yeah you get more shove, and wheelies and hooning around is what it's all about - but at higher power levels you're cooking alot of those extra watt hours off as heat. When tuning high powered builds I take them for a thrash around the block a few times and come back having chewed around 2ah. That same amount of juice if ridden sensibly would get you 2 suburbs away. Obviously we all know this, if we take the time to watch our CA stats instead of clowning around in our ebike wolf pack :lol:


IanM wrote: What a bitch trying to pedal 44/12 gearing with no juice, was nice to receive a friendly push to help get back

I always set my CA LVC conservatively for this exact reason and keep a few volts up my sleeve for manually overriding if necessary. We all scoff at the 200w laws but even that amount of assist is welcome when you're totally out of juice, and referencing the above, even 100 watthrs can be stretched out to limp home. It's all fun and games until you have to pedal a 40+kg bike home!
Schlumpfs are also great for this, but a bit pricey if you don't plan to pedal a bit.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:40 pm

Yeah, spot on guy's. It's all about that balance point. That's one of the reasons I like the Adaptto's 3 power mode profiles.

I reached about 35% battery on that ride at the half way point, but I switched down to Normal mode (2.5KW power limit) for most of the ride back which was what got me back. I also think running a cooler motor with my fans helps a lot....hard to know how much, but we all know the resistance of copper shots through the roof when it's hot.

I really need to get a move on building my Alpha also. I do love the insane pull of a high power beast, which is one of the reasons I got my Alpha, although I still plan to try and sell it once complete, but while it's for sale I can do some 'test rides'. :)

At this stage I've actually got everything I need to make it a functional ride, although it's not the final config. I can just use the HS4080 from my Fighter (since my Fighter now runs on a '1500W' Leaf), and I have 4 spare 10AH 6S Multistars and my old stock Fighter LifePo4 pack I can use. I might start putting it together slowly over the next few months. :)

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Rix » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:31 pm

IanM wrote:
Rix wrote:Nice vid! what happened towards the end, did some one run out of battery?[/
:oops: Yeah that was me, was having too much fun roosting everywhere. Paid the price for heavy throttle hand.

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Rix wrote:Nice vid! what happened towards the end, did some one run out of battery?[/]
Yeah, IanM ran out of juice a few km from the end. He was pushin his grey Alpha pretty hard though. If you look carefully in the video, most of the shots of him are him lifting the front wheel, or tearing up the dirt with his rear.
I'm actually running the exact same battery as him, 6 x 10AH multistars in 18S 2P config. I didn't run out of juice though and got back with a few % remaining. I put it down to a combination of the lower bike weight (Fighter vs Alpha), lower motor weight (MXUS vs Leaf Motor) and more efficient controller (Adaptto Mini-E vs 18Fet Infineon). I also keep my motor much cooler with my cooling fans, FF and heatsinks which would also help a bunch.[/
Ha Ha CD you forgot to mention the fact that I'm probably 20kg heavier than you. What a bitch trying to pedal 44/12 gearing with no juice, was nice to receive a friendly push to help get back.
Loved the video CD by the way.


Yah 20KG more is going to affect range as well especially with lots of hills. Pedaling that bike with 44/12 gearing would be like scratching your a$$ with a cheese grater, slightly amusing, but mostly painful. One thing is for sure, that 20 extra KG would melt away fast if pedaling was repeated.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:13 pm

Rix wrote:Yah 20KG more is going to affect range as well especially with lots of hills. Pedaling that bike with 44/12 gearing would be like scratching your a$$ with a cheese grater, slightly amusing, but mostly painful. One thing is for sure, that 20 extra KG would melt away fast if pedaling was repeated.


:lol: Ive decided to put a derailleur and whatever size freewheel will fit on there so I can avoid that situation happening again. Also I will be removing the freshly installed BBSHD from my commuter bike so I get more exercise. I might just get rid of that 20kg by riding to work on pedal power only, now if only I could reduce my beer consumption.... Nah that's crazy talk.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:37 pm

IanM wrote: :lol: Ive decided to put a derailleur and whatever size freewheel will fit on there so I can avoid that situation happening again. Also I will be removing the freshly installed BBSHD from my commuter bike so I get more exercise. I might just get rid of that 20kg by riding to work on pedal power only, now if only I could reduce my beer consumption.... Nah that's crazy talk.

You do have a MXUS 3K don't you? What size freewheel can fit the Alpha dropouts with a MXUS?
This is one of the few things I'm yet to decide. I've always appreciated the derailleur on my Fighter and it's come in handy many times, however I was not leaning towards a simpler setup on the Alpha because it's got the room for a higher capacity battery.

What I was actually thinking of doing was using a 3 speed freewheel, with a chain tensioner. Then if the situation calls for it, the gears can still be changed by hand if needed. Only problem is, most 3 speed freewheels are 125-14t-16t or 16t-19t-22t, so a bit of a compromise either way, but still better than a single speed IMO.
What do others think?

Cheers
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby amberwolf » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:03 am

Most thread-on freewheels I've seen/worked with can have their sprockets removed, and reordered or replaced. Been a while since I've had a 3-speed one, so don't remember those, but I expect they, do, too.

See here, for instance:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=84097&p=1277064&hilit=freewheel#p1277056

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=84097&p=1277064&hilit=freewheel#p1277064
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:26 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:You do have a MXUS 3K don't you? What size freewheel can fit the Alpha dropouts with a MXUS?
This is one of the few things I'm yet to decide. I've always appreciated the derailleur on my Fighter and it's come in handy many times, however I was not leaning towards a simpler setup on the Alpha because it's got the room for a higher capacity battery.

What I was actually thinking of doing was using a 3 speed freewheel, with a chain tensioner. Then if the situation calls for it, the gears can still be changed by hand if needed. Only problem is, most 3 speed freewheels are 125-14t-16t or 16t-19t-22t, so a bit of a compromise either way, but still better than a single speed IMO.
What do others think?

Cheers

Yes MXUS 3k, honestly I haven't tried yet but I have a dnp 7sp 11-34 that might fit or I may try a dnp 6sp. I'm too cheap to buy a schlumph plus my bb is 100mm which does limit my options a bit. I was also considering using a fatbike crankset with 2 or 3 rings which could be changed by hand. Mostly I don't ride this bike that far to ever run out of battery that ride was the first time i've hit LVC on the alpha. I find the 44/12 gearing to be a bit high for most trail riding anyway so maybe just a 3speed would do the job for me.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:56 am

Thanks AW.
I think 12t-16t would probably work well enough anyway TBH, but if it doesn't I'll definitely keep it in mind to pull it apart and change the gears.

Yeah, I hear you Ian. A front chain ring would also help, but then you've gotta start adding so much chain slack a chain tensioner won't do the trick any more and you'll have to add a derailleur. I guess it depends on the jump between tooth count you opt for though.

I went with the largest front chain ring I could fit on the Alpha....can't remember what that was now, but I've got it ready to go with a BCD 110 spider. I might also add a second front ring for flat battery some get me home pedalling...maybe a 42T.

I guess the main thing I'm not sure about is whether it is realistically viable to use a chain tensioner to keep the chain in gear. Or will it want to jump up/down gears on it's own when jumping and hitting large bumps?

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:53 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:I guess the main thing I'm not sure about is whether it is realistically viable to use a chain tensioner to keep the chain in gear. Or will it want to jump up/down gears on it's own when jumping and hitting large bumps?


I think it depends on the type of tensioner and other factors like chain line, type of chain and amount of slack.A lot of variables can affect the operation negatively. I had a bit of trouble with single speed chain before I got the chain line straight enough then it worked ok but I still had to use a tensioner to keep it on.
So after trying single speed I'm ready for a derailleur setup now.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:44 am

IanM wrote:I think it depends on the type of tensioner and other factors like chain line, type of chain and amount of slack.A lot of variables can affect the operation negatively. I had a bit of trouble with single speed chain before I got the chain line straight enough then it worked ok but I still had to use a tensioner to keep it on.
So after trying single speed I'm ready for a derailleur setup now.

You raise some good points there. It's been a long time since I ran single speed (my Fighter came stock like that originally) and I had forgotten a lot of those issues.
Even running the dirt cheapest derailleur I can find on my Fighter, it's been mostly reliable over the years. I've had to bend the hanger back a few times from crashes, and use a dropout saver when I stripped the threads, but it's still going strong 6 years on. :)

I guess that leads back to the original question though...can one fit a 7 speed freewheel on a MXUS in an Alpha?

Or maybe a better question is, how wide is a MXUS compared to say a HS40xx or Leaf motor? I can fit a 7 speed freewheel into the ~163mm dropouts of my Fighter with those motors.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby icherouveim » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:55 am

Lash wrote:Great video cowardlyduck! Great watching you guys tear up some of those Canberra tracks!

I went for a quick spin today too around my old stomping ground in Bendigo. (1 min vid). Really need to get a go-pro someday.



Bravo Lash! you jump very well with your ebike! and your landings are smooth and nice, it seems you control your body! I've never tried something similar.
I've watched your battery build video 2-3 times, are you happy with the results ? how many km can you do with this riding style ?
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:43 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:I guess that leads back to the original question though...can one fit a 7 speed freewheel on a MXUS in an Alpha?


I just had a look at drew12345's alpha build and as I thought, he was running a 7sp shimano fw on a mxus 3k.
A dnp 7sp should work. I am going to know for sure soon I have all the parts to do the swap but not the time to do it, hopefully this weekend should be a goer. If the dnp doesn't fit then I'll try 6sp shimano but that will limit the gears to 14 tooth versus 11 for the dnp.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby Cowardlyduck » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:16 am

IanM wrote:I just had a look at drew12345's alpha build and as I thought, he was running a 7sp shimano fw on a mxus 3k.
A dnp 7sp should work. I am going to know for sure soon I have all the parts to do the swap but not the time to do it, hopefully this weekend should be a goer. If the dnp doesn't fit then I'll try 6sp shimano but that will limit the gears to 14 tooth versus 11 for the dnp.

Cool. Keep us posted on the result. :)

What derailleur will you use? I was thinking I would like to try a Shimano shadow tech, but not sure if they are worth it.

Cheers
Stealth Fighter/Bomber - Clamping torque blocks Only 3 Left!

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - Golden motor, 6Fet Infineon, 20AH 12S LiPo, with on-board solar charging.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Postby IanM » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:49 am

Cowardlyduck wrote:Cool. Keep us posted on the result. :)

What derailleur will you use? I was thinking I would like to try a Shimano shadow tech, but not sure if they are worth it.

Cheers


Will do. I only have a few really cheap shimano rear mechs to try at first then maybe get something nicer with clutch to help prevent chain coming off. To use a clutched derailleur might require some fluffing around with shifters for 7sp. Was thinking of trying a non indexed shifter from old school mtb or roadie.
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