Introducing the Electrom

So "bikes" doesn't include trikes, despite the obvious advantages. Interesting.
 
It's true that a trike offers the advantage of stability, but for my purpose the downsides were:
  • Loss of two-wheel handling characteristics (and yes, I know there are leaning trikes)
  • Width - too wide
  • some trike riders refer to them as "pothole seekers" due to the fact that with a trike you have three wheel planes you have to steer around obstructions, VS a bike that just has one (as the 2nd wheel follows behind the first)
 
^^ Hehe... That's interesting... "pothole seekers" ... gotta think about that. :)
 
And it can certainly be true--I've had a much harder time avoiding potholes on the SB Cruiser trike than the CrazyBike2 bike.

On the bike I can sometimes even pass to the right of a set of potholes in a row, or a really big one, but on the trike I have to move far to the left part of the lane to avoid the same ones. :/

If I could do the same stuff with the bike that I can with the trike (especially stability with a wiggly fuzzy load on there), I'd've stuck to the bike format. :)
 
Hehe... Had another thought re Electrom Add-Ons... Having dumped recumbent trikes lots of times... (sideways roll over... the last time one bystander estimated my speed at maybe 20kmh...)

Given the trike backrest already has the framework, might try adding more weight (Oh ohhhh...) as a swinging pendulum... with a cord connecting the pendulum to the steering such that the pendulum works in reverse, and actually pulled opposite to the way the trike is being steered when other than straight ahead? This from using crew weight to counterbalance the wind sideways force on multihull sailboats...
30189-5581229.jpg


:wink:

EDIT: Hehe... Rather than add any more weight, would just use the cord to pull the riders weight/move the seat, already bolted to the top of the backseat frame... so the rider and seat become the pendulum counterweight. :)
 
Ok Lock, now you're just getting silly.

But it does bring up a missing fourth point for my reasons for not using a trike: SIMPLICITY. I felt that in order for a new LEV to be successful it would need to be simple to operate, and simple to build and maintain. The "simple to build and maintain" aspects also contributes to another primary design consideration which was PRICE. Simple things are cheaper to make, easier to sell and easier to fix. Everybody wins with simple. Keep it simple.
 
Hehe... OK. Just plenty of examples of folks using pendulums as counterweights... and I'd be trying to bolt the top of the seat to the top/rear frame so rider (and seat) gets to help keep "things" a little more stable on turns. I know about leaning into turns... just sayin'. :wink:
 
Any sign of a electric bike sidecar ekit ?
With a sidecar a friend or hairy pet could join in on the fun :D
 
Hi Tig,

That does sound very quiet. ... suspiciously so ;) What are you using to record? Do you have a streamlining shell or foam sound dampening over your phone mic? Not that I found it loud when I rode it, I don't remember any rattling or other noises.

I like your general configuration. But also like the idea of a side car option. ... Maybe after you're in regular production? My daughter (at 15) doesn't fold up as small as yours and wouldn't fit in your trunk. She's already approaching my weight & height. My project (likely never to be completed) puts two people inline, both quite upright, and only has pedals for the driver. The latter is the rub, because because it really is a pain to pedal uphill for two people. A bolt-on as needed sidecar car would be an easy way to add passenger space with pedals. And it would not increase wheelbase even further. It's noticeable in your videos how your long wheelbase makes steering a lot less precise than a normal bike.

Anyway, what is your production schedule and plans? Crowdsource, Kickstarter etc? Sell a series of prototypes to angel investors as you continue to refine?

I think it would be worth your time to talk with Kody & John S. and compare product. The Veemo has been in service for a while at UBC, they must have some initial feedback. I haven't had time to get out there myself, am wondering how it's working, how people on that planet feel about heads in vs heads out, if the trike fits on paths and parks OK, or feels too wide. Last time I talked to John (maybe a yr or two ago with time flying??!) he said a frequent comment was 2 person version would be better. Their fiberglasser is a really nice guy too if you're ready to go there.
 
Hi John, good to hear from you. I did have a foam wind-damper on the microphone of the camera so I expect that there was a bit more noise that was not picked up.
I'm planing to launch an Indegogo campaign to raise some money to produce a set of ten Beta test bikes. Look for that to go live in mid to late April.
The Electrom does take a chariot-style trailer now. I like the idea of a sidecar, but for now I'm focusing on simple.
With regard to steering, response, you can't really compare it to a normal bike, in fact, I decided quite early that I was abandoning any relation to a normal bike in my design. I was after stability and comfort, especially at high speed and to achieve that, normal bike handling was not an option.
I think that I'm approaching the time when a conversation with the guys at Veemo would be worthwhile.
 
Tigercross,

Admirable engineering and construction skills. Congratulations.

Have you received comments on safety? To me looks like in case of front crash the windshield may cause some upper body injury. What about trying to to make it detach if enough forward force is applied (like a chest pushing it). Or maybe i'm exaggerating the outcomes of a crash?
 
Hi Trazor, thanks for the feedback, yes a few people have asked about the potential injuries from the windscreen. It is actually made of a Windwrap recumbent bike fairing and the material used is a very flexible poly carbonate that will bend on impact. That said, it is something that makes people worry, so on the next version I'll be taking steps to makes sure that the front fairing doesn't give the appearance of something that might cause injury. A forward moving break-away system like you mention is something I am considering.

Tig
 
tigcross said:
...on the next version I'll be taking steps to makes sure that the front fairing doesn't give the appearance of something that might cause injury. A forward moving break-away system like you mention is something I am considering.

It is funny how I get a visual impression of decapitation potential from the Electrom but not from heads out velomobiles like Quest. In a Quest it looks like on a frontal impact your bum would just slide forward and your head would just slide down the seat and disappear inside until your knees bent up and hit the top cowling. Maybe it's the higher seating position in the Electrom that looks like if you rammed something you'd sort of fly up and forward and be impaled. Also Electrom's fairing comes closer to the neck than quest, and being a 2 wheeler maybe it reminds me of the "thrown over the handlebars" accidents I was warned of on as a kid.

Another impression I have is just from the shape - from side view your windshield actually curves downward and looks pointed - free association makes it look like a "knife pointed at your throat". It is weird though because I didn't get any of these impressions in person or while riding it.

Maybe you could cut the windshield a foot or so forward and cover the "rain on your chest" space with a stiffish but very "soft" looking neoprene cover? Somewhat like a kyak skirt? Do I remember correctly you do get rain down your jacket, that you learned to fold your jacket at the bottom so your crotch doesn't end up as the drain? Or would that limit visibility?

I don't want to criticise "your baby", but the one thing I would change is that windshield - it looks much higher and longer than necessary and generally sort of "bulbous and in the way". Does it need to be clear? Maybe a fiberglass would be cheaper, and would save you that extra strut for support. If you made it really thin it could be just as flexible as the polycarb and save you the complexity of breakaway mechanism. If you put returns on the edges it could be made "just stiff enough" to hold shape in the wind without that extra support beam in the center.


Electrom as is.jpg


Electrom - shorter less pointy windshield.png


Electrom - shorter & lower windsheild + rain skirt.png
 
It is funny how I get a visual impression of decapitation potential from the Electrom but not from heads out velomobiles like Quest.
I agree John, almost all velomobiles present an even greater danger to the rider than the Electrom– on the Electrom the fairing is flexible and would crumple, but on a velomobile the fuselage is rigid and would not crumple, and would therefore do more damage. But what it comes down to is appearance: if it looks dangerous, it's a problem, whether it is actually dangerous or not.

Another impression I have is just from the shape - from side view your windshield actually curves downward and looks pointed - free association makes it look like a "knife pointed at your throat". It is weird though because I didn't get any of these impressions in person or while riding it.
Yes, it was the same for me, I never even considered it until someone pointed it out. While riding the Electrom one does not feel endangered by the windscreen at all.

I don't want to criticise "your baby", but the one thing I would change is that windshield - it looks much higher and longer than necessary and generally sort of "bulbous and in the way". Does it need to be clear? Maybe a fiberglass would be cheaper,
Constructive criticism is always welcome. Yes, I've come to a similar conclusion, The windscreen as it is has the rounded shape because that was the windscreen I had on hand when building it. It doesn't need nearly that much height except where the rider's knees rise and fall when pedaling. The whole front area could be much lower. This would have the added benefit of improving frontal visibility. I considered making it out of fiberglass, but I feel that in order for less imaginative future buyers to accept it as a legitimate vehicle they will need to see something that they can relate to, like a clear windscreen. I also like the fact that the blown Polycarbonate windscreens are very light and soft. ironically it looks like hard & sharp glass that would cut your head off, but in fact it's very flexible. That said I have shortened it up and lowered the front in my design for the next version,
Here's a few drawings.
Electrom-fairing1.jpg
Electrom kit options.png
 
I liked those suggestions , it would look more balanced if the windshield was left as high as possible and the seat lowered as low as possible , so it appeared you would be scooped into and protected by the windscreen instead of maybe injured on the way by.
People are used to be being behind glass its not really that useful but is a nice styling touch. It would be equally nice blacked out. You could offer both clear and solid. People love getting what they want :)

I used a solid black windscreen on my ebike that suits well enough. Its a Motorcycle 1/4 fairing , if the bike was white a white fairing would look trick.

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Hi everybody,
it's been along road, but I've recently got the rolling chassis for the Electrom1 production sample
out for a first road test, and it performed beautifully. Many of the predicted handling characteristics were proven and even surpassed.

We are testing out a new cable-based steering system, similar to what is used on small aircraft. The system works beautifully, it is precise, smooth and very responsive.

The Golden Motors Magic Pie motor and Grin Technology Phaserunner controller work well together and the Shimano hydraulic disk brakes perform as expected (and when you’re using Shimano you expect the best).

This is just the frame, the body work has yet to be completed.
IMG_3497.JPGIMG_3500.JPGView attachment 1IMG_3503.JPG
Here is the road test Video.https://vimeo.com/319043364
 
Recumbents aren't my thing, but it looks like a good, solid build. Now, about the video...

* Whatever is clunking against the camera needs to be removed!!!, a foam wind block added to the camera or phone mike, and the vid needs to be re-shot. As it is it's both very annoying, and distracts from the viewing experience. People will like the bike less without even consciously knowing why.

* Unless people normally ride recumbents constantly swerving from side to side (and I'm pretty sure they don't), ride it straight and do a discrete, limited demonstration of how well it steers. As it is some people will be wondering if the bike *can* ride straight...

* Don't run a stop sign, ride in the wrong lane, or do anything else that looks YouTube-amateurish.

It looks like a good product so far, and at least the voice-over was very clear and informative.
 
Thanks for the feedback but I kind of disagree about the video quality issue. This is forum for enthusiasts, not a sales forum.
But it is true, in general it is better to show your work in the best light in all situations as you never know where a video is going to end up. I'll keep this in mind for the next one.

BTW, the bike can absolutely ride in a straight line.
 
I guess I misunderstood the intent of the video. I assumed that it was to promote the bike as a product, as opposed to letting other DIYers see how it's progressing. I'd STILL get rid of that banging/scraping noise, though.
 
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