Cyclone 3000w winter project

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Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Nov 28 2018 11:42am

I received my cyclone 3000w kit from Luna and I plan to install it on my Rocket 1 mountain bike over the winter. The stock mounting seems inadequate and they are out of stock on the upgraded mount. I can tell that it will take some work to get it right but I have all winter. Anybody know of any better mounts available let me know. I'm not sure if my chain ring 48 48 24 will fit so I may have to order a smaller one. I may order the ISIS crank. I plan to use a 72 volt battery mounted in a triangle bag. I will update on the build and welcome suggestions and comments.
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Tommm   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 303
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Tommm » Nov 28 2018 12:18pm


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pwd   100 W

100 W
Posts: 214
Joined: Oct 11 2011 12:01pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by pwd » Nov 28 2018 1:14pm

Hey Dom,

i'm glad to see you will be starting your winter build. If you haven't seen it check out the large cyclone thread here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=3050

That bike looks like it has lots of room for a battery.

How much did your kit end up costing after taxes/duty? I'm tempted to try a mid-drive build too.
Current Build:
Rocky Mountain Element
Magic Pie 4 front + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ WCEC 18fet
em3ev 14S5P 30Q + 14S6P 25R pack
Build Thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=98286

Old Build:
GIANT ATX 980 w/ Cycle Analyst v2.25
Golden Motor Magic Pie (internal controller) X2
14S3P 15aH: 6X 6S 5000mAh + 3X 2S 5000mAh LiPo pack

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Nov 28 2018 2:07pm

I paid $ 389.90 for the kit because I upgraded some stuff then I paid $55 shipping and that was it $ 449 90 US dollars. delivered by FedEx I think they collected the taxes or shipping price included the taxes. I have not seen my statement but that is what I am expecting to see.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Nov 28 2018 2:40pm

Tommm wrote:
Nov 28 2018 12:18pm
Did you forget these?
https://lunacycle.com/parts/cyclone-par ... clone-kit/
I still to have to buy a lot of stuff to get this kit built so I definitely will consider it. Thanks

minimum   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Nov 10 2016 2:53pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by minimum » Nov 28 2018 3:29pm

If you have basic means and skills to fabricate, then I would suggest a simple block of aluminum between front and back motor bracket. Snug fit, pressed in line between BB and motor axis. then drill through bracket from both sides, two holes each side at ends of that block. Remove block, drill holes to suitable depth and cut thread. Re-drill holes in brackets larger, to accommodate bolts going thru to threaded holes.
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Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Nov 28 2018 4:27pm

That's a great idea and it's similar to the idea that I had. I also would like to have a bracket or clamp on the tube frame and connecting to the motor so I don't have to use that silly worm clamp. But really the upgraded clamp from luna would save me having to make this stuff so I plan to inquire about availability.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Dec 04 2018 2:44pm

I decided to do away with the derailer because it would not work. From what I've read 10 gears is more than enough. Heck the Sur Ron does not have any gears. I am surprised about how stiff the stock mount is. The metal is very rigid. I can't get any movement just by hand. The old mount grabbed the motor in a weak way and at a bad location. I still plan to add reinforcements but to a lesser extent. Do people find the new mount to be inadequate and which way does the motor move, to the right and down?
Attachments
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minimum   10 W

10 W
Posts: 99
Joined: Nov 10 2016 2:53pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by minimum » Dec 05 2018 12:56am

If you run it at 40A and below then stock mounts are good enough for most cases.
Stock motor chain tensioner needs only one (or two if you're lucky) derailment to render it unusable.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Dec 06 2018 10:23pm

Reinforced the mount bent and welded 1/8 metal, seems good enough for now. I will keep this tensioner and see how long it lasts. Chain lines up nice
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Smoke   100 W

100 W
Posts: 145
Joined: Nov 15 2018 11:04pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Smoke » Dec 07 2018 2:21am

Image

I think this might be better if the brace was a "Z" shape to turn the trapezoid between the bottom bracket and motor in to two triangles.

You could also fold over the edges of the "/" of the "Z" to resist buckling under compression stress.

A triangle is a stable shape and it translates every force at the vertices in to pure tension or compression in the sides, no bending forces. This is why trusses are made up of triangles.

Trapezoids, parallelograms and other polygons having more than three sides don't make very good structures, your " ] " shape brace makes the trapezoid in to two smaller trapezoids. It may be somewhat effective but force on the motor will still create bending moments on the plates.
Don't let me out.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Dec 07 2018 9:02am

Did not want to reroute the derailer cable and this limited my options

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pwd   100 W

100 W
Posts: 214
Joined: Oct 11 2011 12:01pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by pwd » Dec 07 2018 3:28pm

Hey Dom, thanks for sharing your updates. I'll probably end up doing something similar with the bracket if/when I do a mid drive build. The winter is bad for me hahah, I spend a lot of time reading and the shopping list for ebike stuff just continues to grow. So your bike's derailleur won't shift from 48 to 24? What exactly was the issue?
Current Build:
Rocky Mountain Element
Magic Pie 4 front + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ WCEC 18fet
em3ev 14S5P 30Q + 14S6P 25R pack
Build Thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=98286

Old Build:
GIANT ATX 980 w/ Cycle Analyst v2.25
Golden Motor Magic Pie (internal controller) X2
14S3P 15aH: 6X 6S 5000mAh + 3X 2S 5000mAh LiPo pack

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Dec 07 2018 5:04pm

Hi,

You definately need a fat bike or a snowmobile for winter in your area. The derailleur would not work for two reasons. The size difference between 24 and 44 teeth means that when on 24 the derailleur is too high on the frame so the chain is hung up on the back of the derailleur, my mistake should have ordered a bigger gear I think 32 0r 36 would not have this problem. Also the derailleur will not extend far out but maybe it could have been adjusted. My 44 tooth sprocket just misses the chainstay so this is an issue that everyone may have depending on their particular bike. I cannot fit a 48 tooth so I hope I like my top speed. I'm sure that I can get another derailleur to work but I don't think I'll need one. Edit...I did order a 48 tooth and it just barely fits.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Feb 01 2019 9:19pm

I have the controller in the triangle bag. I can unzip it and let it hang out if heats up too much. I have a 72v 20amph lithium battery on the rack. My intention was to put a battery in a triangle bag but this battery is too big. The battery weighs 17.5 LBS. The motor weighs 12.5 LBS. Total weight is about 70LBS. One final part I need is an amp meter. I am waiting for good weather to try it and work out the kinks. I think it's going to be a wheelie machine. if I don't like this setup I will buy a smaller battery and put it in the triangle.
Attachments
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bakaneko   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 36
Joined: Oct 25 2018 6:25pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by bakaneko » Feb 02 2019 7:09pm

I have the same motor on the mid 44T pedal chain ring and a 72v 16aH lithium battery though probably older cells than yours. I started the build about the same time as you but I have about 500-700 miles atm on it and would say 16-20 aH is very small for this motor. It wants that power to push it. It is a good motor no doubt but what I am saying is your 20aH is the lowest you would want to go.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Feb 02 2019 7:41pm

bakaneko wrote:
Feb 02 2019 7:09pm
I have the same motor on the mid 44T pedal chain ring and a 72v 16aH lithium battery though probably older cells than yours. I started the build about the same time as you but I have about 500-700 miles atm on it and would say 16-20 aH is very small for this motor. It wants that power to push it. It is a good motor no doubt but what I am saying is your 20aH is the lowest you would want to go.
Not sure what you mean. That's a big battery. The quality of the cells and voltage under load is important. I can draw up to 50 amps which is more than enough.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Feb 02 2019 7:44pm

bakaneko wrote:
Feb 02 2019 7:09pm
I have the same motor on the mid 44T pedal chain ring and a 72v 16aH lithium battery though probably older cells than yours. I started the build about the same time as you but I have about 500-700 miles atm on it and would say 16-20 aH is very small for this motor. It wants that power to push it. It is a good motor no doubt but what I am saying is your 20aH is the lowest you would want to go.
Not sure what you mean. A 20ah battery is big. The quality of the cells and voltage under load is important. I can draw up to 50 amps which is more than enough

bakaneko   100 mW

100 mW
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Joined: Oct 25 2018 6:25pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by bakaneko » Feb 02 2019 8:31pm

mebe, i am getting less range in this cold weather or our range expectations are different. but, imo, 16-20 aH is not that big for a 72V 3000w motor. on my 16 aH, i am getting 25-35 miles but i never run it that low soc so i am probably doimg half that before charging at 50% soc. i think i would be satisfied with 50-70 miles and then charge at 50% soc so an effective 25-35 range.

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Feb 02 2019 8:51pm

Ya the cold will have an effect. Once the weather improves, maybe in March :x ,I will be able to see what kind of range I get. I am not expecting more than 25 miles, unless I really take it easy, but thats enough for my needs.

Tommm   1 kW

1 kW
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Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Tommm » Feb 02 2019 10:26pm

Domhelp wrote:
Feb 02 2019 8:51pm
Ya the cold will have an effect. Once the weather improves, maybe in March :x ,I will be able to see what kind of range I get. I am not expecting more than 25 miles, unless I really take it easy, but thats enough for my needs.
25miles is realistic on 16Ah if you are using throttle only.

The more expensive the battery, the smaller it will get for the same capacity. Your triangle could certainly hold a battery even bigger, it just needs to be a triangle with the proper shape. Many aliexpress vendors will build to shape. I used unitpackpower. They are decent.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1414867

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Feb 02 2019 10:57pm

Thanks for the info. I have never ordered anything from aliexpress. Is it easy and reliable to buy a battery from there?

Domhelp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Oct 02 2018 12:30pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by Domhelp » Feb 03 2019 5:03pm

Mild day so I decided to try it out. Very happy no problems. Motor mount is solid I don't anticipate flexing issues.
Throttle is jumpy and sensitive need to get used to it. Is it adjustable? You don't need a lot of gears with a 72v setup. I have a 48 on the front and I don't really need to use the biggest ring on the back. It will wheelie too much. Of course if you plan to pedal up big hills you will need a smaller front ring. Using the motor you can leave it in one gear, for the most part, and still enjoy good climbing and top speed. Have not tested top speed but I am guessing its about 80kmh.
I still need to install an amp gauge. After riding for about an hour my voltage under load was 68v but I can't tell how good the battery performed without a gauge.
Total cost (CAN Dollars tax not included)
Bike was a steal at $400 on Black Friday, Cyclone 3000 kit $640 shipped, battery $750, triangle bag $54, rack $32, 1800 lumen headlight $70, suntour seat post $100, riser stem $14, handle bars $21, cycle analyst $ 170, miscleaneous $50
Total cost about $2320
Attachments
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Last edited by Domhelp on Feb 11 2019 2:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pwd   100 W

100 W
Posts: 214
Joined: Oct 11 2011 12:01pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by pwd » Feb 04 2019 11:34am

Hey Dom,

congrats on getting the bike out for a test! Looks like you planned your build well. Enjoy that wheelie machine.
Current Build:
Rocky Mountain Element
Magic Pie 4 front + Leafmotor 1500 rear w/ WCEC 18fet
em3ev 14S5P 30Q + 14S6P 25R pack
Build Thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=98286

Old Build:
GIANT ATX 980 w/ Cycle Analyst v2.25
Golden Motor Magic Pie (internal controller) X2
14S3P 15aH: 6X 6S 5000mAh + 3X 2S 5000mAh LiPo pack

bakaneko   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 36
Joined: Oct 25 2018 6:25pm

Re: Cyclone 3000w winter project

Post by bakaneko » Feb 05 2019 11:25pm

Domhelp wrote:
Feb 03 2019 5:03pm
Mild day so I decided to try it out. Very happy no problems. Motor mount is solid I don't anticipate flexing issues.
Throttle is jumpy and sensitive need to get used to it. Is it adjustable?
There is an app for the Cyclone 3kW. I got my kit from SBP and they provided me with instructions to get the app. I will paste it soon it is a bit involved and I just wanted to let you know there is a way to do it. I would also preface I have not used the app yet because IDIOT Apple locked me out of my phone apps. But, supposedly, the throttle is set at SOFT START 5. There is SOFT START 1 to 10 and FAST START 1 to 10 that you can set in the app among other things. I probably dont need to tell u how dangerous FAST START 10 will be given SOFT START 5 is the default. I swear if I accidently go WOT I will flip the bike and really hurt myself. Some people get a power meter (must get 72V compatible; all the 10-25$ ones only go up to 60V) or Cycle Analyst to measure the power. For me, I measure starting resting voltage and then ending to get a sense of the power and efficiency. I would say 2-3mi per V is decent, 1mi per V you are really juicing it, 3-4mi per V you are really pedaling with the bike. Your batteries is probably better than mine though.

You should make some YT videos. Its pretty fun to document the speed and car reactions when you smoke them off the line. Also, then I can challenge you to speed or distance races. Our bikes are similar but you do have 4aH more than me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaWkrwDkETs&t=570s
Last edited by bakaneko on Feb 05 2019 11:32pm, edited 1 time in total.

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