E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

If it's like various scooter controllers I've run across, the "meter" line outputs one of the motor phases as a speedometer input. What the electronics in the displays for that do, I can guess that they chop down the voltage and filter that potentially-battery-level signal into pulses for it's speedo to count.

But I don't know specifically what *this* one is.
 
amberwolf said:
If it's like various scooter controllers I've run across, the "meter" line outputs one of the motor phases as a speedometer input. What the electronics in the displays for that do, I can guess that they chop down the voltage and filter that potentially-battery-level signal into pulses for it's speedo to count.

But I don't know specifically what *this* one is.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply amberwolf, I was thinking something along those lines. The chinesers seem to like to use a phase wire for the speedo, but sometimes they use a hall wire instead. I wonder. I think I'll check for continuity from #8 to the phase, and halls.
 
Theodore Voltaire said:
amberwolf said:
If it's like various scooter controllers I've run across, the "meter" line outputs one of the motor phases as a speedometer input. What the electronics in the displays for that do, I can guess that they chop down the voltage and filter that potentially-battery-level signal into pulses for it's speedo to count.

But I don't know specifically what *this* one is.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply amberwolf, I was thinking something along those lines. The chinesers seem to like to use a phase wire for the speedo, but sometimes they use a hall wire instead. I wonder. I think I'll check for continuity from #8 to the phase, and halls.
Click to expand...

I get nothing between #8 and the phase wires, but I get some continuity between #8 and the hall signal wires.
 
https://fasterbikes.eu/media/pdf/4b/a1/3e/KellyKLS-SUserManualV1-10-1CQj2n9V1cLHXMjXqIf3uWXZOr2.pdf

Maybe this is useful.
 
1abv said:
https://fasterbikes.eu/media/pdf/4b/a1/3e/KellyKLS-SUserManualV1-10-1CQj2n9V1cLHXMjXqIf3uWXZOr2.pdf

Maybe this is useful.
Click to expand...

I have that, but I don't see mention of wire #8 anywhere. It's not on any of the diagrams. It only shows up in the picture of this plug.
meter.jpg
 

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(8) Meter: Copy signal of hall sensors. Dark Gray

This is in the KLS owners PDF tha ABV1 posted (I knew I saw it in there somewhere, and wondered what the heck is that for).....

So as Amberwolf said, it is a signal for speed for some of the displays that operate off of hall signal..

Cheeers,
Keith
 
Dunlop said:
(8) Meter: Copy signal of hall sensors. Dark Gray

This is in the KLS owners PDF tha ABV1 posted (I knew I saw it in there somewhere, and wondered what the heck is that for).....

So as Amberwolf said, it is a signal for speed for some of the displays that operate off of hall signal..

Cheeers,'s
Keith
Click to expand...

Thanks Dunlop, that's what I was looking for, but haven't been able to find.

1abv, looks like we can hook the gray wire #8 to the ca #5
 
It's a pity Kelly didn't add shunt out terminals. It says the controller montors phase, and battery current limits, so that must mean it has built in shunts.
 
Some kellys have the battery current shunt on the outside of the controller (along with the fuse), so you can run your own wires to it to monitor current with a separate device (like the CA, etc).

Phase current shunts are still inside, but difficult to monitor phase currents with an external device anyway.
 
Dunlop said:
Would this be helpful to anyone?? It is a diagram I got from Kelly Controllers (Fany) on how to connect the KLS series to a CA...
https://imgur.com/0knizAM
Keith
Click to expand...

Thanks Keith, it's already been posted. I think it came orginally from Kelly. It's interesting they didn't show wire #8, but maybe that's because not all the controllers have a wire #8.
 
So I finally stumbled on to the post about connecting a CA to a Kelly controller, and utilizing the shunt that is inside the Kelly controller.
http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-analyst-connector-controller/
I understand why they tapped into the shunt from back of the circuit board, as not to add or change the overall resistance of the shunt itself. It seems to me that using the same shunt as the controller itself would be a good way to monitor phase amps, rather than using an external shunt (Unless it is too low of resistance to be input into the CA, as Allex mentioned before). I am hoping Amberwolf will explain why it difficult to monitor phase amps with an external device???
Keith
 
Phase amps are AC, as the current is switched between different phase bridges and coils it reverses. The current is also not "continuous", it is broken up as pulses both as the controller switches between phases during rotation, and as the throttle commands the controller to PWM (slice up) the current to the motor less or more.

To measure it, you need at least two sensors, one on each of two phases (one on each of the three might take less math but takes more hardware), and a computer to monitor both and calculate what the "average" phase current is from that.

The CA (or any other single-shunt-monitoring device) can't correctly measure phase currents because of that.

Battery amps are DC, and very easy to measure by "any" single-shunt-monitoring device.


BTW, some Kellys have an external battery current shunt that you can just add the blue and white wires for the CA to. If it has one, it's right on top with the fuse on the controller battery connections.
 
by amberwolf » Sep 29 2022 7:34pm
Phase amps are AC, as the current is switched between different phase bridges and coils it reverses. The current is also not "continuous", it is broken up as pulses both as the controller switches between phases during rotation, and as the throttle commands the controller to PWM (slice up) the current to the motor less or more.

To measure it, you need at least two sensors, one on each of two phases (one on each of the three might take less math but takes more hardware), and a computer to monitor both and calculate what the "average" phase current is from that.

The CA (or any other single-shunt-monitoring device) can't correctly measure phase currents because of that.

Battery amps are DC, and very easy to measure by "any" single-shunt-monitoring device.


BTW, some Kellys have an external battery current shunt that you can just add the blue and white wires for the CA to. If it has one, it's right on top with the fuse on the controller battery connections.
Click to expand...

Thank you amberwolf.... Great explanation, so good even this dumb mechanical engineer is able to understand it!! :eek:
Keith
 
It’s been a minute since I posted on this forum. Hopefully I’m still doing it right and in the right place. I have Bomber #366. Recently out of the blue my 9 yr old charger stopped charging. I plug it in and it goes red to green a second. My husband checked the output on the pins and found there to be none. So we are assuming it’s the charger. To buy one from Stealth will cost me $250-$300 USD. I am trying to source one online. Any advice gratefully received. My charger is 72v 6amp.


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Bexxer said:
It’s been a minute since I posted on this forum. Hopefully I’m still doing it right and in the right place. I have Bomber #366. Recently out of the blue my 9 yr old charger stopped charging. I plug it in and it goes red to green a second. My husband checked the output on the pins and found there to be none. So we are assuming it’s the charger. To buy one from Stealth will cost me $250-$300 USD. I am trying to source one online. Any advice gratefully received. My charger is 72v 6amp.


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Click to expand...

You better look again, I don't think your charger is 72v. Stock battery's charge to 86.7v. $300 is actually not to bad a price if that includes shipping.
 
I finally got past this bottleneck waiting for an aluminum plate to come. This is my own orginal idea. I did it like this to avoid drilling holes in my frame. If and when I ever get a Nucular controller I can just drill some more holes in this same plate.
 

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Theodore Voltaire said:
Bexxer said:
It’s been a minute since I posted on this forum. Hopefully I’m still doing it right and in the right place. I have Bomber #366. Recently out of the blue my 9 yr old charger stopped charging. I plug it in and it goes red to green a second. My husband checked the output on the pins and found there to be none. So we are assuming it’s the charger. To buy one from Stealth will cost me $250-$300 USD. I am trying to source one online. Any advice gratefully received. My charger is 72v 6amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You better look again, I don't think your charger is 72v. Stock battery's charge to 86.7v. $300 is actually not to bad a price if that includes shipping.
Click to expand...
Yep it’s 87 but everyone tells me that basically means 72.


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It mounts on the frame like this. It won't be as obvious after I paint the plate, and controller black
 

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Bexxer said:
Theodore Voltaire said:
Bexxer said:
It’s been a minute since I posted on this forum. Hopefully I’m still doing it right and in the right place. I have Bomber #366. Recently out of the blue my 9 yr old charger stopped charging. I plug it in and it goes red to green a second. My husband checked the output on the pins and found there to be none. So we are assuming it’s the charger. To buy one from Stealth will cost me $250-$300 USD. I am trying to source one online. Any advice gratefully received. My charger is 72v 6amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You better look again, I don't think your charger is 72v. Stock battery's charge to 86.7v. $300 is actually not to bad a price if that includes shipping.
Click to expand...
Yep it’s 87 but everyone tells me that basically means 72.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What they tell you is not incorrect, however, stock battery's are made with LiFePo4 cells which charge to 86.7v. The more common 72v battery packs made from 18650 cells use 84v chargers, so you would want to make sure you get the right one if you buy aftermarket.
 
Ok thanks, I don’t want to waste time buying the wrong one.


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Oh boy! That’s what I was afraid of. Good to know. Cheers for the feedback.


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Bexxer said:
Recently out of the blue my 9 yr old charger stopped charging. I plug it in and it goes red to green a second. My husband checked the output on the pins and found there to be none. So we are assuming it’s the charger. To buy one from Stealth will cost me $250-$300 USD. I am trying to source one online. Any advice gratefully received. My charger is 72v 6amp.
Click to expand...

Most electrical problems are connectors or wires.

Lots of chargers with the symptoms described are perfectly fine except the cable from the board inside to the connector at the battery end has a broken wire in it, usually at the exit from the charger case or the entrance to the connector at the battery end.

If you're willing to open the charger case, you can use a multimeter set to continuity or 200 Ohms, and put the meter black on the first connector pin. Meter red on the first wire from that cable where it connects to the board inside the charger. If no continuity, move meter red to next wire. When it reads continuity, note this on a diagram to show you which wires you have found continuity to a pin on the connector.

Move meter black to next connector pin. Repeat process with red meter lead on wire points inside charger.

If there are three wires from charger and three pins on connector, you will probably have continuity on all three wires, each to just one pin. If only two wires but three pins, you'll have continuity on both ones, one to each of two of the three pins, and one pin with no connection, most likely.

If you don't have continuity on all sets of wires/pins, then it's possible one of the wires is broken. You can fix that, once the break is found. Or just replace the entire cable between connector and board (I'd just fix the break, it's simpler).
 
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