Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Dec 08 2019 10:21am

Hi, Jp here.

Been lurking and posting here or there, but never posted this build yet here. I like to test cells,build batteries and bikes, and get friends involved in this fledgling hobby.

Take a look at my pics, let me know what you think.

Bike:
Frame.jpg
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North Face Kichatana, 7005Al DW link Ironhorse HollowpointXC, re-badge. A very good bike in 2004 with geometry that rivals modern bikes. Retailed with XT all around for about 1200$ until Dicks Sporting goods went bust. Bought busted frame only for 8$, proceeded to weld and braze back into riding form.


Shimano everything. Crank, quad pot hydro MT520. KMC chain. Shimano 14-32 freewheel, Acera derailleurs, Deore trigger shifters..... and Hayes 8 inch and a Hayes 160mm in the rear. VP pedals. RS Domain fork, Bontrager bar and topclamp. Pro Taper grips and donuts. Coils and oil only. I dont believe in airshocks for bikes. Proven to waste efficiency.

24.25" Dia wheels. Sur Ron hub on the front 110x20 36H, rims. 19" with a Duro " Vintage Mc" 2.5" x 19" DOT rated tire. DOT rated rim. 12 G spokes in Sapim stainless and brass nips. Says DOT on the rim and tire. 9.99 lbs front (measured), 24 lbs rear(guess)..... Tire itself is 4.2 lbs, lightest I could find. Shinko weighs twice as much in that size.

Install:
Qs 205 V1 35h 8.5KV
GRIN Ca3-DP with all the knobs and buttons, shunt, ect.
GRIN TCDM chain tension metering BB Tq. sensor.
Kelly KEB 72330, 50/100A controller. 3.3Kw contin. 90v max.
Domino Throttle, from a Zero.
15.5Ah Chevrolet Volt NMC lipo in a 20s, 1p configuration. Quite powerful, if you ask me. 82.5V fully charged with 1278 Wh. IR is 1.2-1.4mOh/cell. Ca3 registers anywhere from .040, to .070, for the IR on a cold day. I would not fear 250A plus contin, if I had the controller to push it. They are certainly proven 1000w/cell in my opinion. Reliable and cost effective.
DC/DC 9v converter. Precharge circuitry. 7w headlight, tail light is one of those accelerometer tailights. The main key is a Hella 2843.
3 riding modes. ECO ( 750w, 25mph), NORM(40A,and 33mph), and UNLIM (full 100A,).

I am sure there is a bunch of stuff I'm leaving out.

The whole bike is 85 lbs, about, give or take. Weighed on a bathroom scale.



Some people have seen issues in my build, such as " lights not bright enough" or " too soft" or " pack gonna hit the tire"... " hubs heavy".. Well Im proud as can be about this bike, dont think it is to soft, have not bottomed out the forks, and the DWLink is like pedaling up a cloud, IMO. I can climb stairs in parks with it and can sling donuts in mud probably 40 feet. Lightest hub/tire/wheel combo I could find. I'll happily hit whoopdedoos at 35mph. It trucks through playing fields unlike any MC I ever had.. silent, smooth and fast.

I built and bent the case myself. Wired everything with high current 8Ga hook up wire. Copper nuts and bolts in all power transmission fasteners.

Final cost? ~1300$ to build, signed sealed and delivered. Minus labor....

The CA3 shows 6500+ watts on acceleration in UNLIM. Top speed is about 40mph loeaded on flat ground. Unloaded I pull 3A @ 49mph.

I might paint it in white pearle BC/CC.. and hydrodip the box. IDK. We'll see.

Some things dont make sense for me.

First is the shunt readings and the Kelly. Kell says it is a 50/100A controller of 3.3Kw. However, peaks on the CA2 show 65-6700W and 95.6A maximum battery draw. How is this possible if Kelly rates the controller in phase amps? How many phase amps do I pull, on this bike? I thought it should have been 100A phase, and the battery would be no more that 70% of this.. but I regularly hit 90+ amps on the CA3. Every ride on UNLIM. The shunt does work, as does the dial AUX I use to fine tune the amperage delivery. I set it at 40A, shunt shows 40A max. Ect.? Speed limiting and amp limiting work flawlessly on the PAS setting I have laid out in the first two (mild) modes. I have PAS disabled on the UNLIM setting.

So why is my "3.3Kw" Kelly showing 90+ amps and 6700W? When entered into the calculator on GRIN the map looks right.. top speed, throttle, Ft/second/second, all the normal numbers. Says I put down 4.5Kw and pull 6500battery watts with the "Leaf 35H " motor chosen in my Kv.. ( the clone that which the QS is)....


Top speed with me on it ( 260lbs bike/rider) loaded is 2200W~ @ 38-40mph. Right on mark according to the calculator.

First time I rode it on 80v ( 18s charged full) it nearly tore both my MCL and ACL on a violent wheelie, in motion from 5-8mph. I didnt know it would react like that, I mean I figured I would be able to handle this "1000w" hub. Threw me off like a pissed off pony. Went sliding down the road 25 feet to a road rashed stop as I landed, sliding on my MCL and an ankle. Landed hard on my inside knee, and outside ankle at the same time. .... Snipped the laces right off my soldier boots. Lol. That hurt, still does. No permanent damage, fortunately. I've tossed a few MC in my time, and a few have tossed me.

Lets let the pictures speak for themselves. I'll add more as the day moves on and my internet catches up. :)

Build:
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OnTwo.jpg
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BoxMock.jpg
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FBRAKE.jpg
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TQARM2.jpg
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FINARM.jpg
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STAND.jpg
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Stand2.jpg
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VPPEDALS.jpg
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Grip.jpg
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Torn up knee time: This happened with a backpack battery. Prompted me to strap the battery under the tubes. Front end still comes up easil, but not in a turn or unexpectedly. Honestly it is almost undrivable on 100A whe you flick it around a turn and want to accelerate... Tq tops out the fork, instantly with throttle, then you are holding the speed down to hold the front down... anywhere before 25mph...

I want to tune the CA3 throttle.. which is better? 99v/sec or 5V/sec? Idk. Response has been "scary" to "Im not trying it anymore..." to " now its a slug"..... I want to use the no load ramp but i dont even know the best setting for the normal throttle ramp.

SEAT.jpg
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This derauilur still works fine, ironically.
drlr.jpg
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FINISHED (for now) PRODUCT: So far I've gone about 420Mi, no problems and everythigs good after working out a few bugs and upgrading to 3.14.
BBOX1.jpg
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TELEPO.jpg
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Chillin next to the ol' ZedX9r in the foyer.
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Leaves.jpg
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Thankyou everbody for helping me, I think Im done uploading for now. :)

15-40 Miles or MPH, you choose. 1278 Wh 80-100Wh/mi peak on CA3... 30-40Wh/mi min.
Last edited by DogDipstick on Dec 08 2019 3:04pm, edited 15 times in total.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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E-HP   100 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by E-HP » Dec 08 2019 11:30am

DogDipstick wrote:
Dec 08 2019 10:21am

Lets let the pictures speak for themselves. I'll add more as the day moves on and my internet catches up. :)
they're not saying a lot yet; not visible

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Dec 08 2019 11:37am

Thankyou: I do not know what I am doing wrong. They show in my preview pane, and show in my browser. I will try to figure it out. Thankyou for the affirmation.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by Merlin » Dec 08 2019 11:40am

no pics visible here either.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by mark5 » Dec 08 2019 12:17pm

DogDipstick wrote:
Dec 08 2019 11:37am
They show in my preview pane, and show in my browser.
Try opening your post in a private/incognito browser window. Do the images still show? I'm assuming you're signed in to google when you can see them. I don't see them.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by john61ct » Dec 08 2019 1:53pm

All show fine here, posted as forum attachments

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Dec 08 2019 2:18pm

Thankyou J. Uploading more now. Now, if you see something wrng, out of place, or that you like, be free to comment.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by rockstar195 » Dec 08 2019 11:57pm

"NEWBIE" "1st TIMER"

Yeah right. You're not fooling anyone. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by andy1956 » Dec 09 2019 8:59am

Ilike the use of the gate hinge :bigthumb:

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Dec 09 2019 10:44am

rockstar195 wrote:
Dec 08 2019 11:57pm
"NEWBIE" "1st TIMER"

Yeah right. You're not fooling anyone. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

First time with a hub. I have a BBS02, that I've run with the same batteries. I didnt know what I was getting into. Everyone told me do NOT do a Al bike, open dropout, with a qs205. It is what I had, so... This bike rips. Its flexy, for sure, but it rides square and tracks nice through the turns.

Goals: Look like a bike, not a MC
Mc rubber ( cause 26inch tires, if not strong 60d Hookworms, are a PIA)

Light, fast. Reliable. Unlike a slow BBSO2. That was the goal.
andy1956 wrote:
Dec 09 2019 8:59am
Ilike the use of the gate hinge :bigthumb:
Thankyou, I have loads of stuff like that from building houses. It is actually a 1/2 copper pipe ground clamp, designed to clamp on a 3/4 inch OD. It fit well, and works nice. I dont have any axle movement, ( even though I could have regen, I dont) and you can see how hard it slid on that nut. On the other side I have a tabbed washer style Tq arm, tig welded, from a washer and an old steel dropout. The non chain drive side takes most of the force where it is at. No movement and good clamping area. I mean, I dont have the capabilities or resources to cut nice aluminum bosses like some people do CNC.

I have lockwired the big nuts up since just in case.

...the smoothness and quietness of the hub impresses me every time I ride.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by Joelectric » Dec 11 2019 9:26am

Nice Legs :lol:

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 19 2020 12:37pm

Datalogs
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83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by Tommm » Jan 19 2020 4:09pm

DogDipstick wrote:
Jan 19 2020 12:37pm
Datalogs
Definitely looks like the wheel would bump into the battery on a big hit.

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 19 2020 5:18pm

Yeah I cannot bottom it out.

Its a smaller-than-the-fork-is-made for wheel. Bike is a 26" with a 24" wheel for starters, and the pack is only six inches. Bike is made for 4.5 inches travel. So to begin with I have about 10-11 inches between lower tube and the tire, without the pack there. I can shove all my weight into it locked and not near. I can jump and wheelie. YOu can brake as hard as you want.

There is 4 Inches of clearance on a bike designed for 4.5inch... not much different given the smaller wheel and teh bike is said to have modern geometry.
Last edited by DogDipstick on Jan 19 2020 5:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 19 2020 5:22pm

Maybe it has a hard spring in it. They come in three rates, being such a well known fork. Fork is not known for bottoming, thats for sure.

Takes my 180lbs so far without trouble, and thats beating it pretty good.

I feel a little insulted. Lol. It doesnt bottom, ever. 8)

I should take the spring out and show a pic collapsed. Maybe then you would believe me. ??
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by torker » Jan 19 2020 5:51pm

I like your bike. My Rincon put me on my arse first ride on 60 v. I used lipo for awhile . now have em3ev (hope i spelled that right) 36v on the rincon and 48v on the fsr.

I was trying to figure out which tire is Duro. I am about to go to a mc tire on the back.
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

Giant Rincon w rear 9C 6*10 36 v x 20 amps
Specialized FSR Comp 9C 6*10 48v x 30 amps

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 19 2020 11:49pm

torker wrote:
Jan 19 2020 5:51pm
I like your bike. My Rincon put me on my arse first ride on 60 v. I used lipo for awhile . now have em3ev (hope i spelled that right) 36v on the rincon and 48v on the fsr.

I was trying to figure out which tire is Duro. I am about to go to a mc tire on the back.
Yeah it is for sure a good street bike.
Thanks I honestly love it. I get like 4-5 people asking questions about it when I go out to the town or to the scrapyards. It goes far and doesnt have any of the problems of my BBSo2. Fast too. Tires never go flat, it is flexy but it is strong. The battery is pretty hardcore, I drop about 1v per 1000w output. My average trip is about 10 miles of fun.

THIS is the Duro. https://www.ebay.com/p/1772718626 Duro makes bicycle tires and light MC tires. It is a good tire, no problems. 2.5" was the fattest I could fit on the frame.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 28 2020 7:19pm

Breakin 8,000w any day now. 21s. Max is now 44mph on the flat. Kelly shuts down @ 85.8V.


10.64 Horsepower. On an 85 lb bike. 7.98lbs/Hp.
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8Kw.PNG
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83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 04 2020 10:21am

Tommm wrote:
Jan 19 2020 4:09pm
DogDipstick wrote:
Jan 19 2020 12:37pm
Datalogs
Definitely looks like the wheel would bump into the battery on a big hit.
Yup I lied. Tried to convinve myself as hard as I could... Nah, how could I build a bike that bottoms out...

Lol. Bottoms right out. Gotta get a harder spring now. :( Been jumping. Mebbe that did it. :)
Attachments
bottoming.jpg
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83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by Tommm » Mar 05 2020 6:05am

DogDipstick wrote:
Mar 04 2020 10:21am
Tommm wrote:
Jan 19 2020 4:09pm
DogDipstick wrote:
Jan 19 2020 12:37pm
Datalogs
Definitely looks like the wheel would bump into the battery on a big hit.
Yup I lied. Tried to convinve myself as hard as I could... Nah, how could I build a bike that bottoms out...

Lol. Bottoms right out. Gotta get a harder spring now. :( Been jumping. Mebbe that did it. :)
You got plenty of space down low, start thinking what you need to move the battery down your tube.
As long as the battery is a bit higher than the bottom of your chainring it will be fine.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by Merlin » Mar 05 2020 7:10am

it does NOT bottom out.
not nearly.
you have 200mm of suspension travel and can only use 100mm
-because-
your plastic box.

if you put in the hardest coil you find, it will me more stiff yes but you will hit the box again + your suspension shifts to "useless" hard, uncomfortable.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by flat tire » Mar 06 2020 3:34am

That battery box is an accident waiting to happen. The fork will travel way more than enough for the wheel to contact and get you flung over your bars. All it's waiting for is a bigger bump than you anticipate. Especially under braking with the fork already partially compressed. Really, really poor design.

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 06 2020 7:43am

flat tire wrote:
Mar 06 2020 3:34am
That battery box is an accident waiting to happen. The fork will travel way more than enough for the wheel to contact and get you flung over your bars. All it's waiting for is a bigger bump than you anticipate. Especially under braking with the fork already partially compressed. Really, really poor design.
"BRO! But did you die"?

I dont think so. Ive been riding some 650 miles so far, jumping and stuff. Lol. Hard accelerations, wheelies, stairs hard and fast, and jumps...

I didn't die.

Been jumping 4-5 foot launches. :)

Figured id stiffin up the front spring, give er a lil more preload too. I can raise them in the trees too. About a half a centimeter. Try to find a bumpstop and see if I can shorted travel in the design.. I readsomewhere you can, with the Boxxer/Domain.

Seals will go some day too. So I'll do that then.

Accident waiting to happen. Slightest bump my ass. Flattire. Bahahahah.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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DogDipstick   10 kW

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Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 06 2020 7:45am

Merlin wrote:
Mar 05 2020 7:10am
it does NOT bottom out.
not nearly.
you have 200mm of suspension travel and can only use 100mm
-because-
your plastic box.

if you put in the hardest coil you find, it will me more stiff yes but you will hit the box again + your suspension shifts to "useless" hard, uncomfortable.
It is almost useless soft right now. Has "med" spring. They make a " hard" and "Very hard" I think. I really pogo on entry and on application of throttle and brakes.. you know 5" frame travel design. 2" smaller tire. So that is 7 inches ( 180mm) t0 travel on a 200mm fork.. Id isnt bottoming hard. I bet I can extend a bumpstop internally.


Its a little more than 100mm. Hey maybe I can change the fork from the inside when I get into it.
83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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DogDipstick   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 601
Joined: Aug 19 2018 12:39pm
Location: Fleetwood Pa

Re: Newbie, Looking for answers, 6Kw too much? :) 1st timer w/ a Hub.

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 06 2020 8:01am

I love this bike. I learned that I can lean into the front, give her full throttle, and feather the brake at the same time, and SMOKE the tire on pavement while rolling and drifting around. Its great. Never had a bike that could do that. Dirt bike were always to knobby to smoke em on pavement and my ZXs/Cbs/Cbrs/Gxsrs would shove and push a little trying to do that on the pavement and I'd qui trying.. well cause 180hp on a 5K bike... but THIS bike I can drift round all day smoking on the macadam.

Got tinted side covers now. And a new seat.
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83.1v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D Broke 10 horsies :twisted: (..about 80% healed..).. :? Anybody.. what equals √3 times the line to neutral voltage? Asking for a friend.. :| (gottenymoem4115thangs?Yall?) :confused: Fabricator @ BSECo. Inc.

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