Terra Trike Tour 2 - budget performance conversion.

HackD

10 W
Joined
Sep 11, 2019
Messages
74
I am a physically limited rider with hip issues. I'm not always stable enough for my DH eMTB project that i've already much enjoyed within my limitations (BBSHD build)... as such, i want something for when i'm not doing all that well for just 2 wheels.

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As i am just coming off of doing a VERY complicated gas/electric hybrid bicycle project, I wanted something different to play with in format.. i was getting bored of this build (Tong Sheng 750w TSDZ2/66cc gas bike hybrid build), and decided to step away to something different for a few months - just wiring to do on this one. Yeah, i got a few things going on in the wintering living room...

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At the end of December, i picked this Terra Trike Tour 2 up for a cheap price, very little used. My intentions from the start, is to rework it for a straight-forward setup.

As i saw the Terra Trike Tour 2, on Kijiji.ca.

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How it came home. By the time i am done, it'll be far too heavy to be up there again.. too bad, it's convenient.

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Basically, i am tricking this out, involving a 1000w Black Magic Pie 5 Vector 20" rear wheel/hub assembly. The tires got replaced by a 2.4 Schwalbe Moto-X 20"x2.4 on the rear, and Schwalbe Big Ben+ at 20"x2.15. This is going to be a rail-trail special requiring a bit of range, so dual 48v19.2ah battery packs are in order. I will also be running a full 12v lighting/electrical system, using a 48v -> 12v voltage down converter buck, off the unused battery at the time.

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As shown in photo, will be the intended fit of the twin battery packs on either side. It will require some significant fabrication work on my part to make it happen.

It's all ok.. i already further refined my fabrication skills with replacing the frame suspended fabric seat original (meh) with a Hard Shell seat pan, that came as a Pan only. Mounts totally up to end user. Ok, i accepted that Challenge.

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Fabrication by hack-saw blade, files, hand drill, and time.. lots of time. I am a bit practiced at this sort of shade-tree craftsman low-tech fabrication technique..

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At time of writing (March 21st, 2021) i have a bunch of parts that have come in to install, the battery carriage structure to build up, a gear cluster to rework for optimal reduced chain line spacing rear gear ratio (building my own cluster, out of 3 of identical construction but differing gear teeth ratios), changing out all controls, putting 203mm 'big brakes' on the front end.. basically a month or so worth of work, remaining. I'll post up additional major updates as they come.
 
Very nice projects and good skills :thumb:

When I saw your mountain bike and read about your physical challenges of not being stable enough sometimes, I couldný help but think it might be beneficial to get the weight distribution better on that bike. By placing the battery pack under the downtube (check if the front tire clears it on full compression) and replacing the rear bag for a triangle bag the center of gravity would be much lower and forward. That will make the bike handle much better and more manageable. And your rear suspension will perform better also without weight on the swing arm.


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Thanks for the advice - multiple people have made this suggestion, and it is a wise suggestion, given dimensional clearances.

My stability issues are lateral .. side to side. Overall strength isn't the issue. Sometimes my lateral balance is there, sometimes it fades, sometimes it's a great day (and idea) to just stay in bed..

The root cause of fitting constraints, is a poor frame selection, in the initial iteration of the bike setup. Compounded by the fact that i did not measure twice, when i made the battery order. I also initially had a much lighter grade traditional single crown fork on this, which definitely did NOT allow for frame clearance on the outside of the downtube.

The Rockshox double crown setup was added later on, after the top-tube installation of the battery pack was made. This isn't a Down hill geometry frame, but it copes with elements of it's environment that is definitely down hill much better for it. A battery MIGHT work in that position (and i think i'd want to see if the Rockshox forks could have a travel limiting shim spacer installed first)... but honestly, being a 20+ year motorcyclist, weight at that point is really not noticeable to me.. i long ago learned to compensate for it, on heavier machines, offroad and onroad.

Initial fall-back position for the battery was on the rack.. past the rear axle.. that did NOT do any favors to the CofG, or handling. Bag is for strictly light weight things, spare tube, keys, wallet..
 
Nice project!
Your selected platform's chromoly frame is bulletproof!
It will easily handle extra weight of a beefy build.
I really like your Schwalbe Big Ben+ tires. I'm running Marathons...excellent for speed....but ride can be rough.
The Big Ben+ tires will open up more riding opportunities, such as some of the better forest roads close to various campsites.
I'm going to get a set for my wife's Terratrike Tour E-conversion.

For our Tour e-conversions (we have two), I engineered them a focus on portability, performance, and stealth.
My build does not look like its even e-powered.
Motor wheel swaps out for standard wheel: Still provides efficient PEDAL-ONLY option for fitness rides without sacrificing my speed (human-powered speed is important to me).
Light weight and compact....need to be able to lift trike by myself into truck along with my wife's trike (same build).

Performance specs:
Donor-trike: Used $500 TerraTrike Tour. Chromoly Frame. 300lb rider rated.
I went with a geared hub BMS Q128C 36V 500w motor. I overvolt it to 44v (850W max).
With one 44V 12S 8AH pack. I get 26MPH max. 25 mile range @15MPH.
For extended rides on Rails-to-Trails bike path, I carry a second 8AH pack attached to bike rack.
49lbs fully loaded (1 pack)....yes, only 49lb!
Both trikes fit in back of mid-size pickup (Chevy Colorado long-bed).
I can load them in myself.....they fit side-by-side...just lift up and roll into truck...one faces forward, the other faces backward.
We take them on our RV trips (we pull an R-Pod 190).
Other mods: :Larger 180mm rotors, thumb shifter for rear (there is no front shifter).
I swapped out the heavy 3X front chainrings/crank for a 1X SRAM setup.
Good luck with your build. :)
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Since the 21st of March, i've been a very Busy Boy, indeed.

I ended up grabbing an 8" hunk of aluminum rectangular 6"s4" - 5/16" box section, and started carving away at it with my tried and true shade-tree fabrication methodology of hacksaw, files, hand-drills, and introducing into the mix, a drill press with various hole-saws.

I got it (mostly) finished and sprayed, just needing two sets of two small brackets to tie into the rear rack and adjustable track slider, and it's good to go.

As such, I got it off the coffee table to check seat reach, and put it on jack stands to start actually putting things together again.


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pullin-gs said:
Nice project!
Your selected platform's chromoly frame is bulletproof!
It will easily handle extra weight of a beefy build.
I really like your Schwalbe Big Ben+ tires. I'm running Marathons...excellent for speed....but ride can be rough.
The Big Ben+ tires will open up more riding opportunities, such as some of the better forest roads close to various campsites.
I'm going to get a set for my wife's Terratrike Tour E-conversion.

I'm a firm believer in more contact patch being brought into play, whenever additional power and additional road stresses/physics are introduced into the mix, with an ebike setup .. however many wheels come into play.

I've heard good things about the Big Bens, and given anticipated path/rail-trail terrain i'll be accessing, they'll fit the bill.

pullin-gs said:
For our Tour e-conversions (we have two), I engineered them a focus on portability, performance, and stealth.
My build does not look like its even e-powered.
Motor wheel swaps out for standard wheel: Still provides efficient PEDAL-ONLY option for fitness rides without sacrificing my speed (human-powered speed is important to me).
Light weight and compact....need to be able to lift trike by myself into truck along with my wife's trike (same build).

I've definitely not gone into this, with weight savings in mind.. :D

Nor is mine 'Stealth' in any way, shape or form. There would be too many concessions made, in my project plans for this and intent of use. I'm supposing that i could unload the battery packs and lose ~28lbs right there, and swap out the rear wheel for pedal power.. but realistically, knowing myself all too well, i am not going to do that.. so it's definitely built to purpose. Being able to keep the hips rotating, is as good a goal as any at this point.

I should theoretically be able to also load mine in my truck, post conversion.. really depends on that ramp/slope angle equation. I about herniated myself getting it up on jack-stands this morning, LOL.

pullin-gs said:
Performance specs:
Donor-trike: Used $500 TerraTrike Tour. Chromoly Frame. 300lb rider rated.
I went with a geared hub BMS Q128C 36V 500w motor. I overvolt it to 44v (850W max).
With one 44V 12S 8AH pack. I get 26MPH max. 25 mile range @15MPH.
For extended rides on Rails-to-Trails bike path, I carry a second 8AH pack attached to bike rack.
49lbs fully loaded (1 pack)....yes, only 49lb!
Both trikes fit in back of mid-size pickup (Chevy Colorado long-bed).
I can load them in myself.....they fit side-by-side...just lift up and roll into truck...one faces forward, the other faces backward.
We take them on our RV trips (we pull an R-Pod 190).
Other mods: :Larger 180mm rotors, thumb shifter for rear (there is no front shifter).
I swapped out the heavy 3X front chainrings/crank for a 1X SRAM setup.
Good luck with your build. :)
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Nice specs - i've put 200mm rotors on the front, along with cable operated hydraulic calipers.
 
Switching gears on this a bit, i needed a little variety in the project activity, before i finalized the battery saddle rack mount brackets.

I needed to 'Home' the 48volt => 12volt down-converter buck for the Tadpole Trike electrics. I wanted it to be relatively waterproof, yet sufficiently cooled to keep from baking inside an enclosure. A large electronic project box, and a few 12volt Computer fans to produce a pull-through active air-cooling setup, using 2 smaller electronics boxes to act as weather-proof fan shrouds. I've also epoxied a set of red LED lighting strips onto it, and found 2 amber LED/Reflectors in the project spares pile, to mount onto the fan shrouds. Should get the job done.




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Battery mount portion of the project, now done.

Now on to assembly of the rest of the beast.

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Nice work! Do you think that aluminum box section might crack at the corners without some triangulation/gussets? The batteries on both sides will be bouncing up and down over the bumps, right? Rails to trails is also the majority of my long distance rides. The recumbent trike will be a blast once finished :)
 
Wow I really like that gasser build! That is amazing!
The double-hailong arrangement looks really good too! I bet that will give you 80 miles, but from the looks of that motor I'd be tempted to burn it up in 5! :twisted:

Well done sir, you clearly have a knack for fabrication.
 
thundercamel said:
Nice work! Do you think that aluminum box section might crack at the corners without some triangulation/gussets? The batteries on both sides will be bouncing up and down over the bumps, right? Rails to trails is also the majority of my long distance rides. The recumbent trike will be a blast once finished :)

That aluminum box section is 1/4" thick, and should be more than up to the task.. I've eyeball designed it, so that no one portion of the box section, or supporting components put direct stress, on any other component. Basically, i've designed it as such that the design is both laterally supported (connection to rear rack) as well as stand-off reinforced, such that any load-bearing forces are not forcing the box section to flex inwards/inwards, but straight down, minimizing any flexing or cracking potential.

I follow the design principle of when in doubt, build it stout... i don't think i'm tooting my own horn, in saying that it could probably survive a small land mine hit...

Definitely, the potential for bouncing/rough terrain will have to be considered, and is an ongoing concern - i do have that concern, this being a rigid suspension Trike (for now... i got evil modding thoughts already about that..). An interim fix is to be running maximal sized tires for the rims, airing down to low air-pressure as an advantage, if going gets rough. Regardless, caution will need to be exercised, and this was part of ad-hoc design consideration, as i built this up. Building it balanced and spreading weight bearing out, was certainly a crucial factor when dealing with ~30+ lbs of battery packs being suspended like this.

Thanks for the compliment :)
 
dequinox said:
Wow I really like that gasser build! That is amazing!
The double-hailong arrangement looks really good too! I bet that will give you 80 miles, but from the looks of that motor I'd be tempted to burn it up in 5! :twisted:

Well done sir, you clearly have a knack for fabrication.

Thank you... i might have gone down the wrong educational path ~30 years ago, when i signed up for the creditentials to work towards a Social Worker career... LOL.
 
I finished off the core electrical/junction box last night. I have been waiting on several small, but critical to finish parts and pieces to come in yet, in order to put the driveline back together and get the controls set up, so i went back to the electrical enclosure/48v to 12v down voltage converter Buck/circuit box.

Keep in mind, part of this function of this project is using up some of the materials left over from ~30 years of hobbies or activities that have occupied my time.. so little money was spent on this (at this time), relatively speaking... just time, and creativity.

This is the core portion of the electrics on my Tadpole.. All functions are switchable, with a master switch for master power disconnection. No battery contact sparking with disconnection/connection of the battery lead.

Photos show the existing functions, so far.

In the remote situation of having to do a quick inspect on the rear end or pump a tire up in the dark, or whatever, i've got a couple of rear facing white Chip LCD modules.

On the top of the electrical box, i had a Cigarette Lighter 3-1 function gadget that i converted - shows voltage output, and case temperature, as well as a USB charge port. I've got three computer fans in this, pulling air in from one side, passing it over the down-voltage buck converter, and dumping it out the other side. Switches are Master Power, and Fan/rear facing white Chip LED's.

I've got a red LED strip wrapping around the box, and an illuminated amber reflector on either side, also. Both will be switchable from the front.. Red LED strip will also be tied into a red LED whip/visibility flag, to be added yet. I still have to wire out to the front lights, and the rear running light.

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A cautionary tail about these shark/hailong pack cables, sometimes they can burn out if not given proper corner relief. The corner relief provided by the "shrink wrap" (I use quotes here because it doesn't actually shrink upon testing) is minimal.

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I'd open up the mount and add some extra shrink wrap and/or braided sleeve to help prevent shorts from forming over time. The one that came with the BBS02 kit that I built for a friend had a 1" long shorted/burned out section of the battery cable that I believe did so by wearing through the stock covering around a corner on the bike frame or similar.
 
dequinox said:
A cautionary tail about these shark/hailong pack cables, sometimes they can burn out if not given proper corner relief. The corner relief provided by the "shrink wrap" (I use quotes here because it doesn't actually shrink upon testing) is minimal.

cable relief.PNG

I'd open up the mount and add some extra shrink wrap and/or braided sleeve to help prevent shorts from forming over time. The one that came with the BBS02 kit that I built for a friend had a 1" long shorted/burned out section of the battery cable that I believe did so by wearing through the stock covering around a corner on the bike frame or similar.

A good observation, and you are entirely correct. The length of cabling is both inadequate to allow a strain/movement loop, as well as there is a risk of internal wear from sharp corners.

I will open them both up, and add/replace additional length of wiring in the next day or so, cover and route accordingly. :thumb:
 
Sounds good. Also of note is the cables they use are the high strand count "soft" wire... not sure of the technical terminology. It's more flexible, but in my opinion less durable. I'm not going to recommend a strand count or anything, just suggest you look at what kind would suit your application best.

HackD said:
I will open them both up, and add/replace additional length of wiring in the next day or so, cover and route accordingly. :thumb:
 
Strand quality/count was acceptable, so i just spliced in and soldered a 5" additional section of equivalent gauge wire, shrink-wrapped the splices, and used some braided cable cover to replace, and good to go again. Certainly more acceptable, now!


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I did something very similar to fix my friend's. It looks great! I like that the braided cable looks so much cleaner than the cheapo wanna-be shrink wrap!

HackD said:
Certainly more acceptable, now!
 
After a full weeks of wiring OCD... I've got it fully operational. I am going to call this going in Freddie Mercury Mode... because it is going to be garish and Flamboyant as Hell in appearance. Four external circuits control whip and strip lights, rear and side marker lights, front DRL lights, with the fourth circuit available for additional LED spotlights.

Switch panel includes an LED clock/cigarette lighter/USB port charging module.

I will be the first to say that this is over the top in terms of overcomplicating things... I'm a sucker for a good project. I do still kind of hate wiring tho.. especially wiring harnesses.. making one for a freaking Trike, is certainly a new one..

LED whip, additional spotlights removable (not shown in pictures/really not sure if I need them to be quite honest.. but wiring provision is there).. I can run as dark or as lit as I desire. I've actually got an motorcycle horn to wire in yet also... The wiring harness has the leads roughed in already.

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I just have to say, that last picture brings back memories of old console TV's, plus it has cat tax and the best Trek ship ever, NCC-1701-D. Plus an awesome e-bike, all in one!
 
thundercamel said:
I just have to say, that last picture brings back memories of old console TV's, plus it has cat tax and the best Trek ship ever, NCC-1701-D. Plus an awesome e-bike, all in one!

The Irony of Technological Obsolescence. My biggest 'Want' as a Teen, was an early 80's style well built Console shelf system.. i found one in the late 1990's, that matched the new format TV's coming in during the early 2000's.. The TV in there is very little used.. it was one of the last Tube-type circa 2005-2006. I bought flat-screen the next year, then Projector, later.

My House is a 1980's Nostalgia museum, at this point!

I always got Cats photo-bombing .. hard to avoid the fluffy lumps in photos, when i've got 4.. LOL.
 
I don't know what happened with the photo formatting.. so they are kind of out of order?

Anyway..

Getting down to Detail points - the nitty gritty of putting it back together.. appropriately enough, starting at the rear wheel. One of the hard-stops of putting the rear wheel on, was the oddity of the rear axle, vs the drop-out recesses to retain the original quick disconnect pinch axle. I could put it on, without the insets, but the Magic Pie spacers sat crooked and part out of the recess - no good. I had to spend an afternoon grinding down a pair of washers to make some custom recess inserts, in order to give the rest of the axle assembly a 100% solid contact to the drop outs. for the torque arms and the Jesus nuts. No way for the rear rim to skip out on me now... Bonus - i've now got a ready made tab for a rack assembly, over what was there already... if so desired.

Another no money mod, coming out of rooting around in the scrap/spare parts bucket. I knew my questionable choice for a whip was going to be problematic. It's heavy, and it will pivot on the rear frame, unless restrained. When the whip isn't desired - it's a quick disconnect item .. and as such, the mount addition accommodates that.

An early 70's motorcycle Clutch Cable guide meets a joiner plate to a miscellaneous frame clamp pulled off a scrap wheelchair, years ago. Never throw anything away, Kiddies.

This keeps the whip positioned, laterally supported, and pushes it away from the riders head. Most important mod of all, getting that Canadian flag up there. I'm really only held up now, by a set of handlebar grips still inbound, before i can turn attention towards final cable routing and wiring. I am going to need to get creative, when it comes to the rear shifter/derailleur.
 

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HackD said:
pullin-gs said:
Nice project!
Your selected platform's chromoly frame is bulletproof!
It will easily handle extra weight of a beefy build.
I really like your Schwalbe Big Ben+ tires. I'm running Marathons...excellent for speed....but ride can be rough.
The Big Ben+ tires will open up more riding opportunities, such as some of the better forest roads close to various campsites.
I'm going to get a set for my wife's Terratrike Tour E-conversion.

I'm a firm believer in more contact patch being brought into play, whenever additional power and additional road stresses/physics are introduced into the mix, with an ebike setup .. however many wheels come into play.

I've heard good things about the Big Bens, and given anticipated path/rail-trail terrain i'll be accessing, they'll fit the bill.

Larger volume tires are almost always better when it comes to bicycles. For everything except close together racing. The old school American Bicycle-style balloon tires were the correct approach.

Having to fight the increased momentum of larger tires and rims combined with the lower frequencies that make it into the frame combine to make the bike feel sluggish. High pressure tires create high frequency vibrations in the bike frame. It's a natural human reaction to perceive high frequency as fast, even though it may be slightly slower. And because of this people tend to pump up their tires too high.

For competition skinny tires will still have some advantage due to sprints. Riders need to be able to quickly accelerate around each other. They can afford to swap tires, change pressures, and wheels for different road conditions to get the most optimized performance.

However if you do the actual measurements you'll often find that you actually get faster at lower pressures. It's a lot more efficient to have road bumps and hashness absorbed by the the tires rather then the bike and rider. Which means that in all situations except on perfectly smooth concrete, large volume low pressure tires win out over high pressure skinny tires.

The worst performing tires tend to be "medium pressure, medium volume", which compromises away all the advantages of either extreme in exchange for the worst of both worlds.

It turns out that smooth = fast.

It's at the point now I am simply going to refuse to own a bicycle or trike that can't fit tires that are at least 2.25 inches in diameter. If you are spending a lot of time on non-paved or poorly paved surfaces then I suspect strongly that plus sized tires in the 2.5 to 3 inch range are the sweet spot. Especially when you go tubeless.
 
LewTwo said:
Just out of curiosity:
What did the actual OD of the rear tire turn out to be or the centerline height of the rear axle ?

Original 20" x 1.75" tire came out to be 245mm from axle centerline to Terra firma (flat concrete). This 20" x 2.40" measures in at 269mm.

Also, free picture post. Upon getting up this morning, I decided to liberate the project from the living room, so that I can wrap up final assembly in the garage.

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