electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Show off your E-bike creation here.
User avatar
grindz145   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2955
Joined: Apr 07 2009 12:10pm
Location: Rochester NY
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by grindz145 » Dec 08 2009 12:45pm

This has to be the most refined bike Ive seen. All the weight low and in the frame where it belongs. Absolutely incredible. Cheers.

User avatar
ekline309   10 W

10 W
Posts: 85
Joined: Sep 19 2008 3:28pm
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by ekline309 » Dec 08 2009 6:38pm

sweet bike man...

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by Zoot Katz » Dec 08 2009 7:52pm

e-cannon wrote:
Zoot Katz wrote:The edges of the triangular battery box form need to be squared so the box doesn't end up twisted.
I'm not sure if it is my English but that one I do not understand... :?:
A photo will explain it better I can.
foam_form-4.jpg
masking tape lip at split
foam_form-4.jpg (46.27 KiB) Viewed 3341 times
I wanted to make sure the three sides were square, across their length, in relation to the two triangular faces.
There was an abrasive belt off a floor sanding machine. I cut and secured that to a flat surface to achieve the result I was after.
The six lamination of foam had shifted slightly in the glue up.
I've been documenting my first attempt but will post the finished results in my own build thread rather than clutter this one.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Dec 09 2009 3:12am

ok understand now. maybe you could just drive some long enough nails into the side to prevent any shifting.

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by Zoot Katz » Dec 13 2009 11:11pm

e-cannon wrote:ok understand now. maybe you could just drive some long enough nails into the side to prevent any shifting.
Yeah, the last two laminations were toe-nailed to prevent slipping.
I think the MKII version will use some method of indexing the stack.
It's better if the inked outlines on the foam line up rather than the cut line.
I used a jig saw. A template and hot wire would be more precise.

ps.I'm getting impatient and still consider it an experiment.

User avatar
adrian_sm   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2404
Joined: Feb 23 2009 12:54am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by adrian_sm » Dec 14 2009 12:40am

I used a friends bandsaw, and cut the whole stack at once to my template on top.
Worked well before I decided to do something different for my enclosure.

Just make sure the table is square to the blade and go slowly. It was well worth the trip across town for the effort it saved.
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Dec 15 2009 4:02am

UPDATE.

after just about 200 km my thumb throttle broke while pushing it down. no road irregularity, no brute force. fatigue of (cheap) material.
instead of getting a new one from canada or somewhere else I managed to repair it using some stuff lying around. it now features a steal core... 8)
it's very comfortable. in fact it's more comfortable than the original one.
sketch.jpg
sketch.jpg (79.14 KiB) Viewed 3166 times
throttle_01.jpg
throttle_01.jpg (49.28 KiB) Viewed 3164 times
throttle_02.jpg
throttle_02.jpg (50.18 KiB) Viewed 3163 times

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » May 26 2010 7:18am

UPDATE:
I burned two mosfets of my ezee controller while dragging my two kid uphill. Got a new 25A Infineon. System works again. But I need a better solution for the power switch. the contacts of my cheap switch behind my lock also did not survived the "accident".
Amberwolf pointed me at a soultion with an contactor on another thread, which could make sense in my special case (with two low current switches, one pushed by my lock barrel, another mounted on the case itself as external backup switch or "kill switch"). So I got my hands on a Kilovac EV200AAANA (hasn't arrived yet, found a cheap one, but only the 9 to 36 V version). See here:
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
I wonder while this is the 9 to 36V version if I am safe to go with my 36v ezee package (because its 38 zo 40 or so). And then: Am I right: this one does not require an external coil economizer?
How do I have to wire the thing together? Red or Black? Direction matters I think. And on the two thin wires the low current switch?
EDIT: Just read in the specs: Holding Current (Avg.) 0.13A@12V, 0.07A@24V 0.03A@48V 0.02A@72V Is that what the thing will draw from my battery If I do not have a hard wired kill switch. Is'nt this a bit much?

I asked amberwolf the same questions per pm, he responded:
I haven't used these specific ones, only know that they are one of the "gold standards" of EV contactors, used successfully all the time in conversions of cars, motorcycles, sometimes powerful ebikes, etc. I'd use them too if I could afford them. :)
Wiring...the smaller connections are going to be for the coil end. Some of them have the coil electronics/suppression built in; you can check the Czonka/Kilovac web pages to be sure if yours does, by model number, or there is a page somewhere here on ES that listed them, and also at least two pages over on DIY Electric Car forums that I have seen.
I don't know for sure, but I do not think the main contactor connections for the switching of power actually have a polarity. If they do, then you'll need to follow that.
If it's rated up to 36V it shoudl work on anything up to 36V, but if your system goes above that when it's fully charged (probably does) then you should check the specs for that model number to be sure it can take it. I suspect that the rating is for the coil, not the contactor part. But check first.

Also, remember that if you post your questions in your main build thread, *anyone* that knows can answer, instead of just the one person (or few people) you might ask via PM. ;) It'll get you faster and possibly better help than a single person can give, most likely.
so I took his advice and posted it here. :D

PS: I know this seems a bit heavy duty stuff for my setup but there's enough room I my box to mount that thing and Andersons just are no option for me if you followed my thread till now you'll understand...
Last edited by e-cannon on May 26 2010 7:45am, edited 1 time in total.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » May 26 2010 7:34am

for those who want to take a look at the switch... :)
switch_01.jpg
switch_01.jpg (91.08 KiB) Viewed 2750 times
switch_02.jpg
switch_02.jpg (75.89 KiB) Viewed 2750 times
My rude opening doesn't make look it better...

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by dnmun » May 26 2010 8:28am

if your pack is always on the bike, you can eliminate the large current cables from the switch and leave them connected permanently to the controller by soldering them. but you need to put a switch inline on the small red wire which carries the controller circuit current from the battery to the controller.

the controller circuit current will drain your battery if left on, but the main current path through those big wires to the output mosfets is isolated and current does not leak out of your pack and through those wires unless you turn on the controller.

this also eliminates the spark when you hook up the controller to the pack.

User avatar
Crimson Head   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: May 07 2010 9:45am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by Crimson Head » May 26 2010 8:30am

Wow - that must be the cleanest build I have ever seen. A masterpiece. Congrats e-cannon.
BMXs rule!
Haro F4 BMX
Front NC2805 hub, 52V 15Ah LiFe Battery, 35A Controller

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » May 26 2010 9:03am

dnmun wrote:if your pack is always on the bike, you can eliminate the large current cables from the switch and leave them connected permanently to the controller by soldering them. but you need to put a switch inline on the small red wire which carries the controller circuit current from the battery to the controller.

the controller circuit current will drain your battery if left on, but the main current path through those big wires to the output mosfets is isolated and current does not leak out of your pack and through those wires unless you turn on the controller.

this also eliminates the spark when you hook up the controller to the pack.
thanks dnmun for the quick answer. I got my controller from ebikes.ca. there is no small red wire coming out from the controller. But: there is a switch on the controller itself. I will have to open the controller but I assume that this switch is exactly wired like you suggest:
ebikes.ca wrote: On/Off Switch: These controllers have a rocker ON/OFF switch that shuts the controller off so that it draws no current. It eliminates the need for a high current switch inline with the battery pack.
that would everything make much easier for me. I first thougt this one was hardwired too.

Would it then be also safe to put the other (the outside mounted kill-) switch in series with my keyswitch? Or could a controller failure make turnig off inpossible without a hardwired killswitch (which I obviously try to avoid)?

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » May 26 2010 9:07am

Crimson Head wrote:Wow - that must be the cleanest build I have ever seen. A masterpiece. Congrats e-cannon.
thanks for the kind words!
cheers
boris

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by dnmun » May 26 2010 9:35am

for the failure mode where one of you mosfets shorts out and somehow becomes a dead short from the battery then you may want to include either a large fuse soldered into the wiring or use an anderson or similar connector in an accessible spot so you can disconnect the pack physically. then you can use your key switch to turn the controller current on and off by going inside the controller, take the output from your key switch which would be low current if you bypassed the key switch with your main cables. then connect the output of your key switch to the output of the toggle switch on the controller. that way you could use the key to turn off the controller current and disable the bike too. that would allow you to have two parallel switches also so if you lost your key, you could use the switch on the controller to turn it on, but otherwise leave it turned off. not secure, but they are gonna steal it anyway if it is unlocked.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » May 26 2010 7:35pm

dnmun wrote:that way you could use the key to turn off the controller current and disable the bike too. that would allow you to have two parallel switches also so if you lost your key, you could use the switch on the controller to turn it on, but otherwise leave it turned off. not secure, but they are gonna steal it anyway if it is unlocked.
I can't get to my controller without key... the barrel also locks my battery box. So that's not gonna happen. But also I will not have a second chance to start loosing my keychain... But anyway, I did it that way. Got in the controller and soldered wires for a parrallel switch. If it happens that my key switch will not close for any reason I will have the possiblility to open the case and reactivate the controllers switch. good idea dnmun.
I think I will install a hardwired emergency switch anyway. I just never know how much current this one should be able to take. Do you think a 20A switch is enough or even to much?
And what about that fuse you mentioned how big should that be in your opinion?

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by dnmun » May 26 2010 11:45pm

use a fuse bigger than your max current. at least 40A or 50A.

Pablo_1985   100 W

100 W
Posts: 168
Joined: Feb 19 2009 9:05am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by Pablo_1985 » Nov 20 2010 9:56am

The best battery box i have ever seen! i´m going to try to copy you ;)
"Todo depende de lo que te chines"-"Everything depends on how hard you try it"
Please english is not my language, correct me if you read something wrong :)

auraslip   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3535
Joined: Mar 05 2010 5:19pm

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by auraslip » Nov 20 2010 5:24pm

I spent hours trying to figure out a switch for my build. I didn't even think to use the on/off switch built into the controller :(

Then again I have my charger in my battery box....and that charger doesn't have a on/off lead, but it DOES have a on off switch. I bet I could run that to my control box.

BTW I went with a hella power switch. Image

It's alright, but the problem I have with keys is WTF do you do with the rest of the keys when your riding? Leave them dangling from the side of your bike?
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE WHO TAUGHT ME ABOUT EBIKES. I'M IN YOUR DEBT.

I sell Ebike Brake levers and throttles with custom connectors crimped on! $10 shipped!

ES facebook group

r/ebikes ebikes on reddit

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Nov 21 2010 3:22pm

auraslip wrote:WTF do you do with the rest of the keys when your riding? Leave them dangling from the side of your bike?
yeah that's why my lock barrel just pushes an on-off push button and then goes back and the keys go back in the pocket where they belong... :)

auraslip   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3535
Joined: Mar 05 2010 5:19pm

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by auraslip » Nov 21 2010 3:34pm

Your e-bike fu is strong. :mrgreen:
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE WHO TAUGHT ME ABOUT EBIKES. I'M IN YOUR DEBT.

I sell Ebike Brake levers and throttles with custom connectors crimped on! $10 shipped!

ES facebook group

r/ebikes ebikes on reddit

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Nov 21 2010 4:15pm

auraslip wrote: BTW I went with a hella power switch.
problem with that key is that every farmer could take a ride on your bike :D :D :D
just kidding.

auraslip   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3535
Joined: Mar 05 2010 5:19pm

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by auraslip » Jan 26 2011 10:54pm

I just wanted to say I still love your build.

You should just use the ignition wire on your controller, and rig that up to your keyswitch.
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE WHO TAUGHT ME ABOUT EBIKES. I'M IN YOUR DEBT.

I sell Ebike Brake levers and throttles with custom connectors crimped on! $10 shipped!

ES facebook group

r/ebikes ebikes on reddit

User avatar
hillzofvalp   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1876
Joined: Dec 26 2010 2:09am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by hillzofvalp » Jan 30 2011 2:10am

I would not want to be the rider of that bike on a windy day, but then again, I've never ridden a big ebike. Is that a charger mounted inside?
Overall I'm very impressed with your build and hope to reproduce the fiberglass method. Might try carbon fiber first though.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Jan 31 2011 7:10am

auraslip wrote:You should just use the ignition wire on your controller, and rig that up to your keyswitch.
Yes I did so after replacing the blown controller with an infineon. I then also connected another low current switch in parallel on the outside for just turning off the bike when I am on a "safe" place. I mean if no thieves are around...
the first setup was kind of childish letting flow all the current through that cheap switch..
hillzofvalp wrote:I would not want to be the rider of that bike on a windy day,
I never experienced major problems riding in windy situations. the "sail area" is too small and too near the ground to get me into problems. However the moderate climate and the topographic situation here don't generate really strong winds very often.
hillzofvalp wrote:Is that a charger mounted inside?
No. It's the controller.
EDIT: ...or the CA, if you mean the thing in the blue case.

User avatar
hillzofvalp   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1876
Joined: Dec 26 2010 2:09am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by hillzofvalp » Feb 07 2011 12:40pm

Would you think it would be okay to laminate the fabric from a heavy duty zipper in here (I would put it down somewhere near in the inside layers so it doesn't stick out)? I think that would be the optimum way to open and close the whole entire thing.

Post Reply