Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 14 2010 7:59pm

There is a resistor you can adjust the value of to delay that instant short circuit protection from kicking in in non-short circuit events. :)
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 14 2010 8:09pm

Where Where???

Which one?

I was also wondering if playing with Phase Current, or Block Time, or some parameter might help.
Last edited by Mark_A_W on Aug 14 2010 10:35pm, edited 1 time in total.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 14 2010 8:31pm

Mark_A_W wrote:Where Where???

Which one?

I was also wondering if playing with Phase Current, or Block Time, or some one parameter might help.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... ilit=6+FET
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Aug 14 2010 8:40pm

liveforphysics wrote:There is a resistor you can adjust the value of to delay that instant short circuit protection from kicking in in non-short circuit events. :)
Dang Luke is there anything you don't know when it comes to controllers and motors!?! I seriously
wish ihad half yor knowledge sometimes.

Good to hear the bike i up and running again Mark. Seeing this is a serious commuter bike
and as such it is required to be reliable and not crazy fast, are you going to maybe
build a totally outrageouss, pointless& over the top bush basher you don't have to worry about breaking?
May i suggest an rc motored downhill setup with independent manual and powered drivetrains :mrgreen:

Something along these lines to 'test the waters' of a non frock hig powered setup?


FYI: this is the same motor many have told me that is extremely loud

All the best getting the controller issue sorted anywayz Mark, seems a number
of members both frock users and non frock users are having issues with controllers
of late... Luke...howz that 'mega controller' you and Jeremy were nutting out coming along mate?

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 15 2010 4:04am

Ok, thanks, I've read it.

It says I need to parallel C20 with a 1k resistor. But it's for a 6 FET Infineon, I need to confirm that C20 is the same C20.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 15 2010 4:10am

AussieJester wrote:Dang Luke is there anything you don't know when it comes to controllers and motors!?! I seriously
wish ihad half yor knowledge sometimes.
Yes... A HUGE thing I don't know! How the h*ll to make a BLDC controller survive at +1Kila-Amp phase currents. Inductive problems do NOT scale up well... :(
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Burtie » Aug 15 2010 4:31am

Mark_A_W wrote:Ok, thanks, I've read it.

It says I need to parallel C20 with a 1k resistor. But it's for a 6 FET Infineon, I need to confirm that C20 is the same C20.
Hi Mark,
I have used this mod successfully on both 6 and 12 FET infineons.

Looking at an 18 FET (EB218-A-3), the circuitry looks the same in this area as the other two, C20 is situated in the centre of the pcb adjacent to QF1.
1K resistor across C20 should work ok.

Burtie

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 15 2010 4:58am

Thanks Burtie.

Here is a pic from my old 18 FET soft start controller (same PCB as my current one).

C20 is indeed in the middle, right next to the microprocessor.

Looks like I know what to try.


Thanks heaps guys

Mark
Attachments
C20 18FET.jpg
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Burtie » Aug 15 2010 5:26am

Your controller looks to have a different pcb to the (newer) one I have here, but I guess the protection circuitry may be very similar.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 15 2010 7:53am

Burtie, on your pcb's, is C20 in a similar place relative to the microcontroller?

Does it connect to one pin on the mcu, and the other end to ground?
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Burtie » Aug 15 2010 3:43pm

The controllers I have all use the newer 116 processor which has pins on all 4 sides and match the circuit shown in the pdf here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 30#p252810

The PCB look similar in many ways, but I cannot see the transistor QF1 in your photo, so the protection circuit may be different.

I dont have a circuit diagram for the 846 based board like yours appears to be.
You may find that C20 is just a power supply decoupling cap on your version of the 846 controller, so the resistor mod will not help, but it probably won't do any harm to just try it and see.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 15 2010 10:10pm

Burtie wrote:The controllers I have all use the newer 116 processor which has pins on all 4 sides and match the circuit shown in the pdf here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 30#p252810

The PCB look similar in many ways, but I cannot see the transistor QF1 in your photo, so the protection circuit may be different.

I dont have a circuit diagram for the 846 based board like yours appears to be.
You may find that C20 is just a power supply decoupling cap on your version of the 846 controller, so the resistor mod will not help, but it probably won't do any harm to just try it and see.

Arrg, that part of the circuit is completely different for the 846 controller.


Full-throttle had a quick look, but he couldn't match it. This controller possibly has an op-amp instead of QF1...but we don't have a diagram for the EB818XC-A-S2 pcb.

Mark
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 15 2010 10:16pm

Mark- Follow the trace from the shunt, and just sketch up what they go and what they tie into on the pathway to the op-amp and/or u-controller etc. Then we can see the circuit and let you know which parts to tweak.
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Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 15 2010 10:25pm

I'll try :)
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 15 2010 11:15pm

Mark_A_W wrote:I'll try :)
This board is just 2 sided right? You're a smart guy with skills, you can trace it. :) just takes a little patience, and grinding the probe tips on a multi-meter to needle sharp points helps as well for double checking things. You can just poke right into the trace that way anywhere you want to check things.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Aug 18 2010 6:55am

Ok, I haven't had a chance to trace the circuit, as Full-throttle and have been playing with forks.


I now have his old 2002 Marzocchi Bomber Junior T Pro's, with 70mm longer travel than my previous 2000 Junior T's, and speed sensitive compression damping (which I think makes them make an occasional clunk sound - it appears to be common from my googling, and I've just spent an hour reverse engineering them in my head and I think I understand why). They are very nice and plush.

Now I can hit those gutters even harder :twisted:


But I will have to add a mudguard (fender for you yankees). I was riding home in the rain tonight at 50-60km/h and this huge spray comes off the front wheel, and gets blown straight back into my face. My face was covered in mud and filth when I got home :( Pity they ruin the looks of the bike, but they are essential...
Attachments
New forks 1.jpg
New forks 2.jpg
New forks 3.jpg
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by full-throttle » Aug 19 2010 1:13am

Mark_A_W wrote:Arrg, that part of the circuit is completely different for the 846 controller.
There's no secondary current sense (digital input, interrupt.. whatever you call it) in the old style Infineon XC846 controller. It does exist on the newer 116-type controllers.

Edit: Try adding a cap in series with the one after R44 to ground. Double it and see if it helps.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Jan 30 2011 7:32am

Just a shameless bump....I mean update:

- Couple of thousand k's now, BMC gears are still holding up

- Had another failed tab weld on the headway pack, which killed another BMS...that's two now.

- So now I'm running without a BMS, which means some of the cells get cooked (over 4v) when charging - but I don't care. I have a bunch of rescued headway cells and I'm madly testing them, before I make a 24s pack. And the original 16 cells in my current pack are getting very sad, I'm lucky to get 7.5 Ah out of them now.


I haven't broken anything on this bike yet, touch wood :P
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by Whiplash » Feb 08 2011 9:54am

Glad to hear it! My brothers bike is still doing well with the same motor, but with the insides being the steel Lyen gear and all the components on the shaft carefully locktited together and the key fit VERY tightly to not let any "jiggling" occur. He off roads it and everything @ 40A. Good little motors if "blueprinted a bit!
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 08 2011 11:49pm

Another day another failure...

After getting the freewheel welded solid after the BMC V3 freewheel failed....

The keyway gave out last night just as I left work. A very slow ride home - I can keep the bike at 22-25kmh most of the time, but it's hard work (which sure won't hurt me..).


I'll get the freewheel welded to the axle at work on Monday. That'll fix it good.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by neptronix » Apr 09 2011 1:12am

Wow, so you ate up the replaceable keyway?

Is it like, metal dust in your motor now? :P

I have noticed that when i switch from 10S lipo to 15S lipo ( 56v nominal ), the keyway takes a real beating whenever i engage the throttle.

I also get a ringing/oscillating/vibrating sound from the motor at 15S. I assume it is the nylon gears screaming for mercy.
At 2300-2600 watts, the motor itself doesn't even seem to get hot, at least on the outside.

I can't help wonder how much power we can shove down these things' throats if the gears / clutch were not an issue.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by toft » Apr 15 2011 12:50am

So, Could you tell how many kilometers and many cycles on this battery pack you have? Thats 10ah nominali and ypu can get only 7,5ah? Teoreticli its mean 75% of use of this battery and it is more then 2000 full cycles... Ask because whant to buy headways too but not sure about long life quality of this stuff.
Regards Mike,
P.S. Wery nice build:)

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 15 2011 1:20am

Pack is ~3 years old, had a hard life (sits at 26 amps constant now).

I dunno how many cycles, I ride about 3 days per week, charge twice per day....so maybe 900 charge cycles. Well over 10,000k's.


The specs on life are bullshit. But these are the very first generation, paper wrapped headway cells.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by manitu » Apr 15 2011 8:32pm

About front fenders.. have you tried a RRP neoguard? http://www.rapidracerproducts.com/NeoGuard.htm

It would be a pity to destroy the looks of that bike.

.manitu

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 16 2011 7:22pm

It's just got a close fitting black mudguard hot glued to the fork arch, right on the wheel.

Looks ok, it's the back one that looks a bit strange.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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