Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway now A123 build

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Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway now A123 build

Post by 1000w » Mar 31, 2010 1:50 am

This is my lastest new build and will be a little along the lines of Mark_A_W's fine set up. I am looking for a little more stealth than my cruiser build.
I will use 16 x10Ah Headway cells (53volts) I split my 20Ah pack from the cruiser in half, a Lyen infinion controller, and a 500w Mac.
I traded a $50 wheel for this Giant NRS frame with a friend, scored the forks for $100 of ebay, so a nice cheap start.
I am going to run 24" wheels with 2.5" hookworms, for a sort of supermotard look.

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I purchased 50mm heat shink to help protect the cells and I have done a mock up for the cell layout.


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I have been trying several options for battery placement in the frame triangle, which is very small on this bike as it is the smallest frame (15.5") in this model.
I can't remember who on this site to credit for the idea of using plastic sheet between cells to build a pack, but that is how I am gioing ATM.


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No problem with peddal clearance.

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Covers for the battery pack will be made using the same clear plastic sheet and fixings to attach the pack to the frame also will be nutted out.
It is still early days on this build but I thought I would show some early ideas and photos.
Cheers,
Matt.P.
Last edited by 1000w on Jun 04, 2011 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by AussieJester » Mar 31, 2010 2:12 am

Excellent start mate, i really like the method for holding the headways looks very slick
howz the cost of the frame and forks hehehe SCORE! Only thing i would suggest is.....
reduction drive and a..... hahaha... Best of luck Matt...

KiM

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by full-throttle » Mar 31, 2010 4:16 am

G'day 1000w,

Does this remind you of anything?

What's this 'clear plastic' you're using, perspex or PC? How are you wiring the BMS to the pack? I've spent quite a lot of time trying to hook up mine, its a b!#ch of a job..

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by AussieJester » Mar 31, 2010 4:37 am

full-throttle wrote:G'day 1000w,

Does this remind you of anything?

What's this 'clear plastic' you're using, perspex or PC? How are you wiring the BMS to the pack? I've spent quite a lot of time trying to hook up mine, its a b!#ch of a job..

Bugger i forgot that was yours full-throttle i was on phone to Matt.P and couldn't recall who had done it either DOH!
I thought the setup was excellent when i saw it too. I know Matt hasn't got the BMS yet he is after a GGoodrum/Fechter unit though that i know.

Are you still stuck for time to work on yours full-throttle? would like to see some progress shots that frame of yours is INSANE!

KiM

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Mar 31, 2010 5:21 am

full-throttle wrote:G'day 1000w,

Does this remind you of anything?

What's this 'clear plastic' you're using, perspex or PC? How are you wiring the BMS to the pack? I've spent quite a lot of time trying to hook up mine, its a b!#ch of a job..
Well done full-throttle, it was your thread where I got the idea.
I'm not sure what the plastic is as I scored it from rubbish collection. It's 3mm, very tough, and not brittle. I folded a 3m long x 900mm sheet in half to get it in my boot and I couldn't break it.
Like Kim said I would like a GGoodrum/Fechter unit and I plan on using ring terminals between each cell.
Which part of the BMS wiring is difficult?
Thanks for the encouraging words Kim.
Cheers,
Matt.P.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by full-throttle » Mar 31, 2010 6:16 am

1000w wrote:I'm not sure what the plastic is as I scored it from rubbish collection. It's 3mm, very tough, and not brittle. I folded a 3m long x 900mm sheet in half to get it in my boot and I couldn't break it.
It's got to be PC (polycarbonate) then. Tough and easy to work with. You can cold form it too.
1000w wrote:Like Kim said I would like a GGoodrum/Fechter unit and I plan on using ring terminals between each cell.
Which part of the BMS wiring is difficult?
I've been dremel-ing out little pockets for the ring terminals and every time I put it together it doesn't quite fit.
I like your idea of heat-shrinking the cells, I tried wrapping a 20mm bit of bike tube at each end and that was too thick, tried (thinner) latex bike tube and that didn't hold, 3 layers of mylar tape seem to work well. Had it all connected tonight, just a couple of final touches and it will be done!
AussieJester wrote:Are you still stuck for time to work on yours full-throttle?
Yep. Can't wait to have the first ride either.

Hey 1000w, couldn't help noticing the cruiser with massive orange rims on the background - is it a project in the pipeline?

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by AussieJester » Mar 31, 2010 7:06 am

full-throttle wrote:cell.

Hey 1000w, couldn't help noticing the cruiser with massive orange rims on the background - is it a project in the pipeline?
hehe well there you go Matt. didn' take long at all :mrgreen:
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Few pics i have on PC of it for you full throttle...Matt mentioned on the phone
today he wondered if anyone would notice the bike in the back ground haha..

I call it the 'Jaffa Bike' hehe..

KiM

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Mar 31, 2010 9:22 am

full-throttle I to noticed my blue and orange beach cruiser in the background and thought there may be some enquireries into whether or not it is an ebike project.
A small hub would be nice to help get those 24" x 3.45" tyres and 80mm wide rims rolling.
It is a peddal only bike I built for Friday night rides that I do with a crew of riders that are into dragsters, choppers, cruisers, vintage BMXs and anything cool or old school.
full-throttle I look forward seeing your finished batt pack and bike.
cheers,
Matt.P.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by Mark_A_W » Mar 31, 2010 5:28 pm

That's AWESOME!!

I can't believe you scored the bike for $150!

Don't forget your torque arms, and check your swingarm/pivots often, the join from the machined dropout area to the seat stay looks a bit vulnerable with a motor on the wheel.



Duct tape for the batteries? 8)
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by cell_man » Apr 02, 2010 4:35 am

Great looking build Matt especially the battery enclosure. Will look the business when it's finished. The orange and blue bike is nice too.
Visit http://www.EM3ev.com/ for our Ebike Kits and in-house battery packs. Online Shipping quotes to most popular destinations, with automated PayPal checkout.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by doc007 » Apr 02, 2010 5:19 pm

Nice looking set-up you have going. You definitely got a REALLY good price on that frame! I wish I could find something like that around that price-piont over here.

Quick questions for you: I noticed that the battery mount looks like it might interfere with the brake and derailer cables. Are you still planning on running the lines via the same route? or are you planning on re-routing them to another area? If so, where and how?
Build log: Kona DH Stab Primo, 20s2p, 9C 8x7, Greentime 15fet 4410 50A
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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by dogman dan » Apr 03, 2010 6:53 am

Nice! That frame stripped of everything but the shock would Ebay for $250 for sure, if not $400.

Very nice work fitting 12s in the frame. It's not as easy as some think, once you realize how much space the pedals use up. For me, putting headways in crossways to the frame would be way too wide. But the way you did it is sweet! wouldn't be such a big deal to strap 2s to the top tube or go wider up near the handlebars if you have to have 16s.

Start a FS frames that work thread in Ebikes general with this frame.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Apr 05, 2010 2:25 am

dogman wrote:Nice! That frame stripped of everything but the shock would Ebay for $250 for sure, if not $400.

Very nice work fitting 12s in the frame. It's not as easy as some think, once you realize how much space the pedals use up. For me, putting headways in crossways to the frame would be way too wide. But the way you did it is sweet! wouldn't be such a big deal to strap 2s to the top tube or go wider up near the handlebars if you have to have 16s.

Start a FS frames that work thread in Ebikes general with this frame.
Thanks for the comment dogman, it may be hard to tell, but I have got 16 cells in there.
doc007 wrote:Nice looking set-up you have going. You definitely got a REALLY good price on that frame! I wish I could find something like that around that price-piont over here.

Quick questions for you: I noticed that the battery mount looks like it might interfere with the brake and derailer cables. Are you still planning on running the lines via the same route? or are you planning on re-routing them to another area? If so, where and how?
I am not going to run a front derailer just a rear and I am going to run hydraulic brakes. I will run the lines somewhere not sure how yet, will keep you posted.
cell_man wrote:Great looking build Matt especially the battery enclosure. Will look the business when it's finished. The orange and blue bike is nice too.
Cheers cellman.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by doc007 » Apr 05, 2010 5:40 pm

ok great im looking forward to the next update. All these builds with cool battery mounting solutions have been taking forever. :D I want to see the final product already! :lol:

Would you be able to relocate the 4 lowest batt's on the lowest part of the triangle to something like my ghetto photochop below? ...I hope this makes sense lol



If you could, you would be able to save the diameter of one batt on each side. Of course this might not be such a big deal, but I presume if you're looking for super compactness this may be a viable option.

Good luck!
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Build log: Kona DH Stab Primo, 20s2p, 9C 8x7, Greentime 15fet 4410 50A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=41331

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Apr 05, 2010 11:06 pm

doc007 wrote:ok great im looking forward to the next update. All these builds with cool battery mounting solutions have been taking forever. :D I want to see the final product already! :lol:

Would you be able to relocate the 4 lowest batt's on the lowest part of the triangle to something like my ghetto photochop below? ...I hope this makes sense lol



If you could, you would be able to save the diameter of one batt on each side. Of course this might not be such a big deal, but I presume if you're looking for super compactness this may be a viable option.

Good luck!
Thanks for the photoshop doc, I appreciate the input a lot, there is no way the cells will fit that way with the covers I intend to fabricate.
Once I have covers on the sides it should be stealthy enough for me.
Cheers,
Matt.P.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by doc007 » Apr 06, 2010 1:22 am

no problem, cant wait to see the final product! :mrgreen:
Build log: Kona DH Stab Primo, 20s2p, 9C 8x7, Greentime 15fet 4410 50A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=41331

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by TMaster » Apr 07, 2010 6:05 pm

1000W, That looks like a 2003 NRS frame. I currently have a 2003 NRS that I ride as a normal bike. I bought it off Ebay a few years ago too. I had to replace all the bearings though, and replace the 2 bushing sets in the rear. They are special bushings. I know the 2004-2005 NRS frames went to all bearings though. Let me know if you need the company and part number for the bushings. I dont have the bearing sizes written down, but I can look. It made a huge difference in the bike after replaced everything. I even replaced the rear shock, with a FOX R pushed.
Specialized HR - 75 lb's
A123 26650M1 23S4P(75.9V Nominal) 7500W Peak
Infineon Lyen 12 Fet/45amp controller heavily modded pushing 110 Amps peak
Yescom Motor with upgraged phase wires (Golden Motor/9C replica)

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Apr 07, 2010 8:24 pm

Hey TMaster thanks heaps for the tip.
Did your frame have obvious side play/slop in the bushings?
I have given mine a fairly good side push and pull and can't seem to feel any play however I haven't riden it.
The guy I got the frame off thinks the shock needs rebound seals so I was wondering if other shocks could be used.
I was thinking there is a few things to consider when getting a new shock.
Do you have to find a shock with the same piviot hole diameter, length between piviots, same travel, and similar compression strength? Are any of these measurements standard?
Cheers,
Matt.p.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by TMaster » Apr 07, 2010 10:03 pm

The frame when I got it need a complete rebuild. The frame was saggy and the bearings were shot, like froze up from rust inside them. Once I replaced all the bearings and the plastic bushing sets on the very rear, the frame was solid, you can not push the triangle by hand, they were so tight. Everything is sold now! Its very nice. I think i spent around $25-35 to replace all of that.

My shock was also wore out. The pivot bushing were wore out too. I tryed to rebuild it, but it was too far gone. The anodize on the stanchion was wore off too much to seal good anymore.

I replaced the pivots with new from ordering them from Fox. I measured them and they shipped me the right size. ALl the pivot bolts for most of the frames out there are the same size bolt hole. I think the 2 pivot sets were $10. ALso you will need the eye bushings for the shock. Those were I think $2 ?

The shock is a standard 6.5" length. A lot of makers make them and the rebound is adjustable. You just need the right length pivots, just measure them. I dont remember what size off hand, I would have to go dig through my records. All the pivot bolts and shock bolts are 12 to 15 Nm of torque. I have the 2004 NRS owners manual if you want it. I dont have the 2003 though. Its almost identical im sure. It gives all the shock psi settings and tourqe and just everything. Pm me your email and I will email it too you. If you decide to replace the bushings in the rear I can email you the company and part number. The bearings you can get anywhere, you will need to take them out and write down the numbers on them. etc.. :D

Word of advice, I would spent the $25-45 and replace everything that needs it (hopefully not the shock itself). Your going to be putting some miles on it. Who knows how it will perform when you get on it. This is a 7 year old frame, and there is a reason it is forsale on ebay. :D
Specialized HR - 75 lb's
A123 26650M1 23S4P(75.9V Nominal) 7500W Peak
Infineon Lyen 12 Fet/45amp controller heavily modded pushing 110 Amps peak
Yescom Motor with upgraged phase wires (Golden Motor/9C replica)

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Apr 24, 2010 9:17 pm

My Mac hub arrived from Cellman, easy trouble free transaction, great packaging, cheers Paul.
I decided to run some heavier phase wires so melting won't ever be a problem.
I wanted to run 10AWG and realised this is too hard to do with the space in the axle so I drilled the other side of the axle to double the space.
I also drilled both sides to 7.5mm, the standard size was 7mm.

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I also opened the inner hole where the wires emerge and die grindered a little more room in the slot of the piece that connects the axle to the stator.

Image
Image

I removed the thick insulation from the 10AWG wire and put on heat shrink, two phase wires together and one phase wire with the hall wires.

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Here is a photo showing all the wires installed, they went in quite easily.

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Nearly finished here, just need to glue the wire joins down and check there is no rubbing on any of the wires.

Image

Does anyone know where the washer below goes, I have forgotten where to put it?

Image

Cheers,
Matt.P.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by full-throttle » Apr 24, 2010 9:27 pm

It should be in contact with the bearing.

Nice work with the axle! What current will you be running?


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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by 1000w » Apr 24, 2010 11:20 pm

full-throttle wrote:It should be in contact with the bearing.

Nice work with the axle! What current will you be running?
Which bearing? The large one in the middle or one of the side ones?
I will keep the amps mild with the nylon gears and will crank it up when/if the Mac manufacturers come up with stronger gears. Cell man said they are looking into it.
Thanks Kim.
Cheers,
Matt.P.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by full-throttle » Apr 24, 2010 11:49 pm

Either of the side-plate outer ones. Mine was on the disc side, I wouldn't mind having one on each side though.

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Re: Giant NRS/Mac hub/48v Headway build.

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 25, 2010 3:30 am

How did you get the Rotor off?

I removed my freewheel/gears assy, then took off the second circlip.


But the Rotor wouldn't come off.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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