E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Jul 04 2015 5:18pm

Ooor when Alex does one : ))))

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 04 2015 5:21pm

Allex wrote:Ooor when Alex does one : ))))
Oh yah, the Allex special, which by the way, when the time comes, will be building me a pack out of 25R cells. :mrgreen:

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remf   10 kW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by remf » Jul 05 2015 3:02am

Rix wrote:
Theodore Voltaire wrote:So when is the new bigger Bomber battery coming out? :D
Got to be soon, Stealth can't leave the smaller Fighter as it is with more range potential than the Bomber.
I think the Fighter will be the choice for long range riding for a while. I asked them about the Bomber and that is a lot more complex in terms of manufacturing & certification. It will happen just not in the short term. With the new Fighter pack I can understand how 120km would be possible...it's 1.5kWh so even riding at full power, range is at least 80km on the figures I'm seeing.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Emmett » Jul 05 2015 3:27am

Is this new Fighter battery using the same LiFePO4 technology?

1500 kWh would be awesome. I always get 900 to 950 out of my Fighter.

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remf   10 kW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by remf » Jul 05 2015 5:09am

Emmett I'm not sure but I think it's of the manganese variety of lithium...it weighs around 10 kg and really feels plentiful in terms of usable range. Because of that large capacity, power delivery just seems to keep on going compared to the last pack which was LiFePO4.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 05 2015 12:35pm

remf wrote:
Rix wrote:
Theodore Voltaire wrote:So when is the new bigger Bomber battery coming out? :D
Got to be soon, Stealth can't leave the smaller Fighter as it is with more range potential than the Bomber.
I think the Fighter will be the choice for long range riding for a while. I asked them about the Bomber and that is a lot more complex in terms of manufacturing & certification. It will happen just not in the short term. With the new Fighter pack I can understand how 120km would be possible...it's 1.5kWh so even riding at full power, range is at least 80km on the figures I'm seeing.
Very impressive numbers for the latest Fighter pack. I predict that the Fighter will outsell the Bomber in terms of shear sales numbers. If it hasn't happened already.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Jul 05 2015 12:40pm

Emmet, cannot be lifepo4 as with its lower energy density it would be impossible to fit in the fighter

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 05 2015 12:58pm

Allex wrote:Emmet, cannot be lifepo4 as with its lower energy density it would be impossible to fit in the fighter
No, the first generation pouch packs that came out for the Fighters and Bombers back in late 2011 early 2012 were Lifepo4 chemistry. This was when Stealth shrunk the frames on the bikes when they stopped using Headway Cells. The Fighter was running a 16s pack and the Bomber was running a 24s pack. Hot off charge for the Fighter back then was 58.4 volts instead fo 58.8 now with the Li Ion chemistry. My dad is still running the original pouch cell Lifepo4 pack his Bomber, my old Bomber. Its funning because he charges it and the fault HVC shuts down at 87.4 volts, but after it sits for a few hours, the volts drop to 80.1 or 79.9 depending on temperature. Lifepo4 isn't a bad chemistry, it does suck when the weather is cold and doesn't have the energy storage density foer kg as Li Ion Li Co or Li Poly and some of the other exotic chemistries though.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Jul 05 2015 1:11pm

Thats what I ment, new generation Fighters cannot store 1500Wh worth of lifepo4 as it would not fit, so therefore they are prolly using 18650 li/ion cells

Lifepo4 is 3.65V per cell hot off the charger and drops to 3.33V after rest. Similar to PB batteries, so totally normal.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Emmett » Jul 05 2015 3:21pm

Thanks guys. All clear.

Something which is not clear to me is why my Lifepo4 battery loses some grunt when not cycled due to a few weeks storage. It can be the same volts every time before I hit the trails, but after lack of use it just doesn't pump out full grunt. Even in summer. So it's not a temperature thing. It's time related. I guess impacting amps, not volts. It recovers though. Roughly X cycles needed after X weeks storage before it gives normal/full acceleration again.

I'm presently away for a couple of weeks. When I get home it'll be interesting to see how it performs, since this time I purposely stored the battery with about 70% charge instead of full. That is, I did a full charge then used about 30% before packing it away.

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OrangeCountyBomber   1 µW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by OrangeCountyBomber » Jul 05 2015 4:41pm

I upgraded the battery on my Stealth Bomber to a 100v 27ah battery and I have been blowing controllers and BMS's every since my upgrade. I would like to have my reliability back without going back to a stock configuration. Any suggestions on what equipment would work for my battery setup?

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by morati » Jul 05 2015 4:53pm

OrangeCountyBomber wrote:I upgraded the battery on my Stealth Bomber to a 100v 27ah battery and I have been blowing controllers and BMS's every since my upgrade. I would like to have my reliability back without going back to a stock configuration. Any suggestions on what equipment would work for my battery setup?
Adaptto Max-E and never look back......

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Jul 05 2015 4:59pm

Emmet, some of your cells are probably low and need a few cycles before they restore full power, my recommendation is that you keep your charger on for 24h after long storage, this will then slowly top of the low cells, see if this helps.

Orange, for a 100v pack you need a >100v controller and a bms that suits it, so either start there or downgrade to a battery that is under ~98v volts
P.s. Morati how do you like adaptto so far, compared to a bomber controller?
TV, yes, mini-e is just as silent as Max-e

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Emmett » Jul 05 2015 5:35pm

Shall do Allex. Thanks.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 05 2015 6:47pm

OrangeCountyBomber wrote:I upgraded the battery on my Stealth Bomber to a 100v 27ah battery and I have been blowing controllers and BMS's every since my upgrade. I would like to have my reliability back without going back to a stock configuration. Any suggestions on what equipment would work for my battery setup?
Orange county badass, (like your avatar name) your Bomber's controller is an 18 FET 4110 Fet controller. The 4110 Fet is rated for 100 volts, but due to load inductance, you shouldn't use any 4110 Fet controller above 96 volts. That said, a controller with 4115 Fets can handle voltage up to 135 reliably. I would have your battery builder build you a 20, 21, or even a 22s pack and I think your reliability issues will be resolved. It was mentioned earlier to run a Max E controller, but going above 96-98 volts with them is also a gamble. I would not do that. As far as your BMS goes, the only way that should be tripping off is if you are exceeding its amps discharge limits, again, the solution is to not exceed what ever your BMS is rated for on Max discharge. Any tech guys out there that know otherwise please chime in.
Thats what I ment, new generation Fighters cannot store 1500Wh worth of lifepo4 as it would not fit, so therefore they are prolly using 18650 li/ion cells

Lifepo4 is 3.65V per cell hot off the charger and drops to 3.33V after rest. Similar to PB batteries, so totally normal.


Allex, I knew that you know that, I only stated it on the event that some of the readers didn't, and wanted to help out with passing along the information. :mrgreen:

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jul 05 2015 7:35pm

How many cycles are the new LiPo packs rated at?

My old Stock LiFeP04 pack is now on over 500 cycles...it still 'works', but has some pretty bad sag and has lost about 20% capacity at low load...35% at high load.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 05 2015 9:39pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:How many cycles are the new LiPo packs rated at?

My old Stock LiFeP04 pack is now on over 500 cycles...it still 'works', but has some pretty bad sag and has lost about 20% capacity at low load...35% at high load.

Cheers
My old Bomber that Pops now rides has over 1000 cycles on the battery. He told me, just this week, he went for a 62 mile ride, and used 1492wh. The Temp was 90F, and he took it easy and pedal assisted as much as he could, (he just turned 70 in Jan so needles to say, he isn't Lance Armstrong). The ride was just over 3 1/2 hours. My dad also said if he had just blasted the throttle WOT after the ride, he would have induced BMS shut down. Here is the thing with that battery in my old Bomber. When my Fighter arrived 15 months ago, my dad got the Bomber. When I handed the keys over to him, I could ride it and on a warm day after 1220wh or so consumed, if I WOT the throttle, it would BMS shut down. Well now dad claims that he can WOT the throttle after 1300wh is consumed on a warm day and not shut down BMS. I should note that when I rode my Bomber, I had the LVC set at 69. When I handed it over to dad, I increased the LVC to 70 for his sake. Anyway, my dad claims that riding the Bomber easy, and frequently, he has rejuvenated the pack and it works better now than it did back in March 2014. I would call BS on it if I was hearing this from a pilgrim, but not my dad. Anyway, he doesn't ride like us, and if we rode like him, out batteries would last a bit longer in general.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jul 05 2015 11:26pm

Very true Rick.
I used my Fighter battery on my recumbent commuter for about 4-5 months over summer here in Aus. I was regularly able to get 16+ AH out of the pack, even when not taking it easy...mind you, thrashing it on the recumbents low aero, 20" rear wheel is probably the equivalent of taking it easy on the Fighter...if I smash it on the Fighter I can hit BMS shutdown in 11-12AH used.
I'm setting up the Fighter (for now) with the old stock battery inside the frame and an additional 400Wh of LiPo in a backpack so I have decent range. It's only temporary until I can afford a proper new 18650 battery, or some MultiStars. :D

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 06 2015 11:34am

Cowardlyduck wrote:Very true Rick.
I used my Fighter battery on my recumbent commuter for about 4-5 months over summer here in Aus. I was regularly able to get 16+ AH out of the pack, even when not taking it easy...mind you, thrashing it on the recumbents low aero, 20" rear wheel is probably the equivalent of taking it easy on the Fighter...if I smash it on the Fighter I can hit BMS shutdown in 11-12AH used.
I'm setting up the Fighter (for now) with the old stock battery inside the frame and an additional 400Wh of LiPo in a backpack so I have decent range. It's only temporary until I can afford a proper new 18650 battery, or some MultiStars. :D

Cheers
I am waiting to hear what the real deal is with the multi star 16000mAH 6s units. I know one guy running them on a MAC 8 and he is only drawing 2c with 2 6s packs in series making it a 12s 16ah battery. That's not really a good test to determine what volt sag would be for say 5-10c discharge. I am thinking that my next pack will be from Allex made out of 25R cells. Probably going to go with a 16s 10P pack, was originally looking at more but figured I would keep the pack light. 67 hot with 25aH will give me good range, and not weigh very much, I figure with the OVS options on the Max E, will have plenty of top speed with the MXUS 4t. Of course, I could change my mind at the last minute and go 20s. Just don't know.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 06 2015 4:17pm

OrangeCountyBomber wrote:I upgraded the battery on my Stealth Bomber to a 100v 27ah battery and I have been blowing controllers and BMS's every since my upgrade. I would like to have my reliability back without going back to a stock configuration. Any suggestions on what equipment would work for my battery setup?

If you want your reliability back best to buy an addapto controller and charge to 98 volt. I run my 24s Lipo pack like this for 2 months without any issues until my new pack arrived. I rode a bomber on the weekend with a max.e controller and you won't be disappointed.

Depending on what your battery packs max Amps are you will need to adjust the maximum Battery amps on the controller so you don't trip the BMS.

The Adaptto min.e will over heat with your 5403 motor so best to go for the Max.e even though you might not be able to run it at its maximum 130 battery amps.
Last edited by Rodney64 on Jul 06 2015 5:52pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Jul 06 2015 4:50pm

Hey Rod, cool that you guys have that Bomber back on track!

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 06 2015 5:03pm

Allex wrote:Hey Rod, cool that you guys have that Bomber back on track!
Yes a bit of a beast.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 06 2015 6:06pm

Rodney64 wrote:
Allex wrote:Hey Rod, cool that you guys have that Bomber back on track!
Yes a bit of a beast.
I heard as well. faster than fast.

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remf   10 kW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by remf » Jul 07 2015 2:21am

I do like the sound of 98V Adaptto in the Bomber on the trails but the 30Ah pack in the Fighter has changed the way I ride & charge. Rather than charge after every ride like I did previously, I find the best way now is to just keep riding until I've consumed around 24Ah leaving around 20% in reserve at all times. So around 60km is plenty of range for almost a week of riding around the city at times. When I need extra range, it's always there if I need it.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Jul 07 2015 11:10am

remf wrote:I do like the sound of 98V Adaptto in the Bomber on the trails but the 30Ah pack in the Fighter has changed the way I ride & charge. Rather than charge after every ride like I did previously, I find the best way now is to just keep riding until I've consumed around 24Ah leaving around 20% in reserve at all times. So around 60km is plenty of range for almost a week of riding around the city at times. When I need extra range, it's always there if I need it.
Yah, with your new battery, you can get a way charging and discharging to 20% on a weekly basis.. I just wouldn't store your bike at 20% SOC. I know you know this, just saying it for those who may not.

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