E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by NoFanBoiz » Mar 14 2016 3:40pm

Ariderslife wrote: You should Voice that concern to stealth, have you seen the promo videos they do?
basically the same as mine but with nice gimbal work.

I"ve seen a few, none that I've seen have innocent bystanders nearby. I didn't really expect you to acknowledge or understand the issues outlined in my last post.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by NoFanBoiz » Mar 14 2016 3:43pm

ridethelightning wrote:
yeah, i almost mentioned that but didnt want to ramble on more then i had. here goes...
there are well founded theories the baslink died in the arse due to high voltages caused by a solar storm that coincided with its breakage(similar effect to electromagnetic pulse weapon)
I'd be interested in seeing some peer reviewed website links where this solar storm theory exists as the main theories I've seen on why Basslink failed have to do with possibly running the cable outside it's ratings - there were failures on that cable about 4 years ago. Other theories being manufacturing weak points, water ingress etc.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 14 2016 4:39pm

It's not going to be the high power bikes causing most of the problems. It will be people riding like asses on modest powered bikes that get the most attention. That's the way it's always been, and nothing has changed to make it any different now.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by one4torque » Mar 14 2016 6:17pm

TV - like jetskiis.... it will be a kid who want's a mass-produced cool "whamo" e bike like the you tube vid...... for Xmass...... daddy orders one with his gold-card.......... junior who is the family's pride and joy.... rolls into a garbage truck @ 34mph....... then cnn get's ahold of it..... and an entire segment is legislated/regulated/taxed/fornu k ated to the T......

Where's my long board lager? ......
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Mar 14 2016 6:45pm

NoFanBoiz wrote:
Ariderslife wrote: You should Voice that concern to stealth, have you seen the promo videos they do?
basically the same as mine but with nice gimbal work.

I"ve seen a few, none that I've seen have innocent bystanders nearby. I didn't really expect you to acknowledge or understand the issues outlined in my last post.
\

Those poor innocent bystanders weren't hurt or injured when Arider went by at speed. Thats like saying I was almost a victim, but not quite. Now if Arider plows into one, the bystanders become innocent bystanders because they were a victim of an unlawful act. Don't be trollin here. :lol: You know how I feel about trollin. :wink:

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by NoFanBoiz » Mar 14 2016 7:03pm

Rix wrote: Those poor innocent bystanders weren't hurt or injured when Arider went by at speed. Thats like saying I was almost a victim, but not quite. Now if Arider plows into one, the bystanders become innocent bystanders because they were a victim of an unlawful act. Don't be trollin here. :lol: You know how I feel about trollin. :wink:
Interesting that when QuietRush says pretty much the same as I did, you have no comment, but when it's me you get mouthy.

However you miss the point. I would say it again, slower just for you, but I can't be bothered. You just wouldn't get it.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by QuietRush » Mar 14 2016 7:22pm

Let's keep it focussed on the issues people - heading into personal attacks isn't going to help anyone.
FWIW, I've made my views on the value of Stealths videos VERY clear to them. They run too far foul of Truth in Advertising obligations in Australia for my liking.
See http://www.corrs.com.au/publications/co ... -cant-say/.
As a Dealer, it did me no favours to explain to people that they can't be ridden legally like that.At some point, the ACCC will want to have a word with them.

I'd much rather see the product shown in legal context, being enjoyed in the right settings and am working to create the conditions in which to do that. You can feel free to make that view known to them as well.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by one4torque » Mar 14 2016 7:43pm

QR - well written resp dealer speak sir.

I get the wheelies/mad jumps footage... it sucks you in.... It's different.... it's the free-ride sprirt.

I'm sure they can keep that part..... just put the legal-eze on the bottom...... on a closed course... and have the flashy adverts.......and stay in the rhelm of the yet to be written law.

can't we just keep this community small and stealthy?....
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by White Knight » Mar 14 2016 7:57pm

Totally agree with what Quiet Rush and others are saying. If we, including Stealth don't keep up the safe image of e bikes around the public, we will all suffer with the consequences. This will enevablity happen but when is up to all of us, don't take this golden time for granted please.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 14 2016 11:11pm

one4torque wrote:TV - like jetskiis.... it will be a kid who want's a mass-produced cool "whamo" e bike like the you tube vid...... for Xmass...... daddy orders one with his gold-card.......... junior who is the family's pride and joy.... rolls into a garbage truck @ 34mph....... then cnn get's ahold of it..... and an entire segment is legislated/regulated/taxed/fornu k ated to the T......

Where's my long board lager? ......

You got it half right. The kid will get killed, but no one will care. End of problem. Very few Stealth's end up in the hands of inexperienced punks.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Mar 14 2016 11:16pm

NoFanBoiz wrote:
Rix wrote: Those poor innocent bystanders weren't hurt or injured when Arider went by at speed. Thats like saying I was almost a victim, but not quite. Now if Arider plows into one, the bystanders become innocent bystanders because they were a victim of an unlawful act. Don't be trollin here. :lol: You know how I feel about trollin. :wink:
Interesting that when QuietRush says pretty much the same as I did, you have no comment, but when it's me you get mouthy.

However you miss the point. I would say it again, slower just for you, but I can't be bothered. You just wouldn't get it.
You missed my intention, I was tying to be comical based on our past dialogues. I am sorry that I offended you. I won't joke with you anymore. I know what you meant and respect your perspective.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 14 2016 11:20pm

I hate to say this but you guys sound like a bunch of pussy's. We're talking about a freakin 6 hp bike here. Get real. If some kid wants to blow him mind out on a bike, there's a lot faster, and far less expensive ways to do it. Stop wetting you pants about what some dumbass might do on a 6 hp bike for crying out loud. If you want to worry about something, worry about getting rear ended by a bike going 180 mph. Any kid can get one of those a lot easier than a Stealth.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 14 2016 11:22pm

And don't start on about helmet save lives either. Wear one of the damn things if want but shut the frock up about it.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Mar 14 2016 11:26pm

QuietRush wrote:Let's keep it focussed on the issues people - heading into personal attacks isn't going to help anyone.
As a Dealer, it did me no favours to explain to people that they can't be ridden legally like that.At some point, the ACCC will want to have a word with them.

I'd much rather see the product shown in legal context, being enjoyed in the right settings and am working to create the conditions in which to do that. You can feel free to make that view known to them as well.
QR, I am not following entirely what you mean. As you and everyone else are aware, Stealth's DC1 lets the rider to switch from streetlegal to offroad (aka completion mode) with the press of a button from the main screen. When you say to people they can't be ridden legally like that. Are you referring to unrestricted mode on the street? Or is there something else?

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 14 2016 11:37pm

I remember back in the 80s some politician got this wild hair up his ass, and wanted to ban open class sport bikes. Back then they only had about 140hp and went 150 mph. So the government commissioned a study called the Hurt report, done by a guy named Harry Hurt. The government was sure the report would prove that open class sport bikes were the most dangerous bikes on the road.

Problem was that's not what the report found. It turned out 600cc bikes were the ones over represented in the study. The 600s it turns out are ridden by more inexperienced riders, then the open class bikes, so they're involved in more crashes.

So what did they do about it, ban the 600s? No, because then the same inexperienced riders would move on the open class bikes. And after all that, we're still riding just like always, except bikes are a lot faster now.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by QuietRush » Mar 15 2016 12:09am

Rix wrote:QR, I am not following entirely what you mean. As you and everyone else are aware, Stealth's DC1 lets the rider to switch from streetlegal to offroad (aka completion mode) with the press of a button from the main screen. When you say to people they can't be ridden legally like that. Are you referring to unrestricted mode on the street? Or is there something else?
All demos involve showing people how to use the DC1 - my point for AU rider demos is that you can't ride them legally on the street in unrestricted mode, which is what you need to pull the kind of sustained power wheelies you see in the Stealth FB timeline. Unless they're doing it in restricted mode, which I seriously doubt. Kids who hit me up for demo rides want to be able to jump on and pull power wheelies, cause that's what they see. Who amongst you doesn't get cat-called to 'chuck a mono' for every group of kids you go past who ogle the bikes :-)

TV, I take your point, yes, they're a lightly powered bike WRT moto alternatives, but a moto wouldn't dare blur the lines and get out onto a cycleway mixing with pedestrians unless you're on a James Bond film set. That's where the line gets crossed IMO with regard to marketing them. A retailers responsibility is to comply with "truth in advertising" regulations. As an owner/rider, you're clearly less constrained with impact only on your own licence points and wallet, with less costly fines. I'm speaking for the AU context here, not anywhere else.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Hyena » Mar 15 2016 12:28am

I can see both sides of the argument re: negative publicity.
While obviously we don't want to draw negative attention to ebikes and what they can do at the same time when it comes to marketing it's been demonstrated people want to see speed, excitement and dare I saw, a bit of danger. I'll happily admit that more than 50% of the time I go out riding my high speed ebike I'm just out cruising around. But if I'm making a video I dont bother including that because it's not interesting. The 3 minute video I post might be 5% of my total ride, or even less. There's recently been a bit of a stink on one of the purist mtb forums about ebikes, citing vids like these because apparently that's how all ebike riders ride 24/7. They claim they're destroying the environment and they refuse to share their trails with these 250w electric motorbikes (lol). Yet look at just about every promotional or professionally made mountain bike video and you'll see high speed antics, aerial acrobatics and guys ripping trials to shreds in clouds of dust and gravel. Does the average mountain bike rider ride like that ? Hell no, but it's what people want to see, and it's what sells. "If I had the skill, this is what my bike is capable of" So yeah, I don't really see an issue with Stealths marketing. If you've got the balance I'm sure you could hold a wheelie on a 200w street legal ebike. I do recall an amusing story when someone bought a stealth a while back and then took it back to the factory complaining it didnt do wheelies. "Hey Al, can you come test this bike for a sec ?" Nekminnit, bike goes whizzing past on the back wheel :lol:

You could say the same about car races, the largely Holden vs Ford V8 supercars and their predecessor race series are particularly ingrained in Aussie culture (I realise this is a global forum but stealth is Aussie mate, so deal with it :P ) Everyone has seen the Ken Block videos of him tearing it up. Granted it's on closed roads but it's still marketing for Ford. Will the average turbo hatchback owner drive like that ? Of course not. Will teenage P platers go out and drive like that ? No doubt some will have a crack, I was a hoon when I was a kid and I didn't need any encouragement :P I did have the sense though not to do it around the public though...

And then there's shows like topgear. Again largely staged but people like the action and a little bit of irresponsible or juvenille behaviour.
And really as far as I can see that's what this whole wheelie drama is, it's the kid who used to skid and wheelie around on his BMX, grown up and still up to the same old tricks on an expensive electric mountain bike. Would I make videos if I could wheelie like that ? Totally! Would I do it past unsuspecting pedestrians ? No. But in court room talk, let's just call it an "error in judgement" on Peter's part :)
We all know that a 500w or 5kw or 10kw bike can be ridden totally responsibly on the bike paths along side kids on scooters and mums pushing prams. It's also true that someone being a dick on a normal mountain bike or some lycra clad roadie doing a strava run could seriously injure pedestrians. It's rider attitude and common sense, be it a skate board, push bike, ebike, motorbike, car or a bloody hang glider!

The bottom line though, as has been said over and over is that we don't want this good thing ruined for us. It's not the technology, it's not the wattage or the CCs or the ECU tune. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And we all know how that played out in Australia - blanket bans. Ariderslife, basically people don't want you to be our ebike Martin Bryant!

So everyone, ride as responsibly as you possibly can. I know for some of us it's harder than others :P
Let's not give this parliamentary Mr Universe an excuse to flex his muscles.
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by NoFanBoiz » Mar 15 2016 1:09am

Rix wrote: You missed my intention, I was tying to be comical based on our past dialogues. I am sorry that I offended you. I won't joke with you anymore. I know what you meant and respect your perspective.
Gah... I apologize. Hard to get the feel of tone when it's just text.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by 1abv » Mar 15 2016 1:25am

Image

mmmmmm total subject change…..mmmmm saint brakes.. holy crap went out for a first ride on them with the ice-tech rotors 203's….holy crap so much better than those magura mt4's..
It's like the hand of god grabbed my front wheel. Much better feel, power and modulation well worth the mod.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by JumperJackFlash » Mar 15 2016 1:34am

1abv,

Really? Are they that much better? I still have the MT2s.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by ridethelightning » Mar 15 2016 2:18am

all this talk of bystanders....how innocent can they really be?

@saint brakes, glad you like em so much!
personally i have nothing to compare them to cause its all i ever used :wink:.....oh except if you count my first bike with old mtb frame,headways,4065, crapped out vee brakes...
id almost forgotten :D

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Mar 15 2016 2:18am

QuietRush wrote:
Rix wrote:QR, I am not following entirely what you mean. As you and everyone else are aware, Stealth's DC1 lets the rider to switch from streetlegal to offroad (aka completion mode) with the press of a button from the main screen. When you say to people they can't be ridden legally like that. Are you referring to unrestricted mode on the street? Or is there something else?
All demos involve showing people how to use the DC1 - my point for AU rider demos is that you can't ride them legally on the street in unrestricted mode, which is what you need to pull the kind of sustained power wheelies you see in the Stealth FB timeline. Unless they're doing it in restricted mode, which I seriously doubt. Kids who hit me up for demo rides want to be able to jump on and pull power wheelies, cause that's what they see. Who amongst you doesn't get cat-called to 'chuck a mono' for every group of kids you go past who ogle the bikes :-)

TV, I take your point, yes, they're a lightly powered bike WRT moto alternatives, but a moto wouldn't dare blur the lines and get out onto a cycleway mixing with pedestrians unless you're on a James Bond film set. That's where the line gets crossed IMO with regard to marketing them. A retailers responsibility is to comply with "truth in advertising" regulations. As an owner/rider, you're clearly less constrained with impact only on your own licence points and wallet, with less costly fines. I'm speaking for the AU context here, not anywhere else.
Okay QR, I was tracking with you after all, thanks for clarifying. From the sales aka selling stand point, riding our machines unrestricted is what sells so to speak. I have tried my bike once, only once on 750watts, needless to say, its boring. Now reduce that to 200 or 250 watts, well the farts coming out my ass look faster and more fun. What I don't understand is why there is a limitation on ebike power, it should be restricted to speed only. Back in 1983, I was riding my dads 10 Speed I don't know what the hell it was down Americana BLVD in Boise Idaho. A BPD Officer clocked me at 43MPH in a 30MPH zone. Its the steepest 30mph road in Boise. BPD issued me a citation for basic speed violation and contacted my parents. The cite was quashed and I didn't pay a dime. Turns out the Police couldn't charge a juvenile with a non status violation. My point, its easy to exceed 20MPh on a bicycle. Ebikes are supposed to be governed to 20MPH and 750watts. What would the difference be if the a 6kw ebike and a 750watts governed at 20MPH? The only difference would be how fast It took to get to 20MPH. But one would be legal, and the other illegal. Its bullshit.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Mar 15 2016 2:22am

NoFanBoiz wrote:
Rix wrote: You missed my intention, I was tying to be comical based on our past dialogues. I am sorry that I offended you. I won't joke with you anymore. I know what you meant and respect your perspective.
Gah... I apologize. Hard to get the feel of tone when it's just text.
No worries here man. You should chime in more often. Seriously appreciate the perspectives. That's one of the things I like to see...objectivity. We are all good. :P
Last edited by Rix on Mar 15 2016 2:33am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Mar 15 2016 2:38am

Hyena wrote:I can see both sides of the argument re: negative publicity.
While obviously we don't want to draw negative attention to ebikes and what they can do at the same time when it comes to marketing it's been demonstrated people want to see speed, excitement and dare I saw, a bit of danger. I'll happily admit that more than 50% of the time I go out riding my high speed ebike I'm just out cruising around. But if I'm making a video I dont bother including that because it's not interesting. The 3 minute video I post might be 5% of my total ride, or even less. There's recently been a bit of a stink on one of the purist mtb forums about ebikes, citing vids like these because apparently that's how all ebike riders ride 24/7. They claim they're destroying the environment and they refuse to share their trails with these 250w electric motorbikes (lol). Yet look at just about every promotional or professionally made mountain bike video and you'll see high speed antics, aerial acrobatics and guys ripping trials to shreds in clouds of dust and gravel. Does the average mountain bike rider ride like that ? Hell no, but it's what people want to see, and it's what sells. "If I had the skill, this is what my bike is capable of" So yeah, I don't really see an issue with Stealths marketing. If you've got the balance I'm sure you could hold a wheelie on a 200w street legal ebike. I do recall an amusing story when someone bought a stealth a while back and then took it back to the factory complaining it didnt do wheelies. "Hey Al, can you come test this bike for a sec ?" Nekminnit, bike goes whizzing past on the back wheel :lol:

You could say the same about car races, the largely Holden vs Ford V8 supercars and their predecessor race series are particularly ingrained in Aussie culture (I realise this is a global forum but stealth is Aussie mate, so deal with it :P ) Everyone has seen the Ken Block videos of him tearing it up. Granted it's on closed roads but it's still marketing for Ford. Will the average turbo hatchback owner drive like that ? Of course not. Will teenage P platers go out and drive like that ? No doubt some will have a crack, I was a hoon when I was a kid and I didn't need any encouragement :P I did have the sense though not to do it around the public though...

And then there's shows like topgear. Again largely staged but people like the action and a little bit of irresponsible or juvenille behaviour.
And really as far as I can see that's what this whole wheelie drama is, it's the kid who used to skid and wheelie around on his BMX, grown up and still up to the same old tricks on an expensive electric mountain bike. Would I make videos if I could wheelie like that ? Totally! Would I do it past unsuspecting pedestrians ? No. But in court room talk, let's just call it an "error in judgement" on Peter's part :)
We all know that a 500w or 5kw or 10kw bike can be ridden totally responsibly on the bike paths along side kids on scooters and mums pushing prams. It's also true that someone being a dick on a normal mountain bike or some lycra clad roadie doing a strava run could seriously injure pedestrians. It's rider attitude and common sense, be it a skate board, push bike, ebike, motorbike, car or a bloody hang glider!

The bottom line though, as has been said over and over is that we don't want this good thing ruined for us. It's not the technology, it's not the wattage or the CCs or the ECU tune. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And we all know how that played out in Australia - blanket bans. Ariderslife, basically people don't want you to be our ebike Martin Bryant!

So everyone, ride as responsibly as you possibly can. I know for some of us it's harder than others :P
Let's not give this parliamentary Mr Universe an excuse to flex his muscles.
Everything you said was the truth Jay. Also, I remember that guy. Al got on his bike and showed him the bike could wheelie, laugh my ass off every time I think about that.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Allex » Mar 15 2016 2:59am

Jay, not sure if my PMs go through, can you check you inbox?

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