E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by voicecoils » Jan 30 2012 7:13pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:Big shout out to Voicecoils & Gloworm Cycles for performing some fantastic warranty work on my Fighter. :mrgreen:

My stator was replaced and now my top speed seems to have increased a little to ~57kmh. :) This is on some semi knobblies so should be even faster with Crazy bobs.
They also replaced the rear freewheel and got the back wheel running a lot straighter/smoother than I ever could.

Thanks again Voicecoils.

I should also point out John's awesomeness in arranging this work to be carried out so quickly. Took less than a week from when I notified him to when it was fixed. Awesome service indeed. :D

No comments from anyone on my temp monitoring solution :?: What do others think of it, would you do the same :?:

Cheers
Thanks Cowardlyduck.

Your bike was the first I've seen with the Duro BernMaster and they look like great tyres, more solid looking then the CrazyBob. Wider too.

I think your temp monitoring idea is a good one without messing with the already tight axle wire channel. A factory installed probe would be nice though.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by voicecoils » Jan 30 2012 7:29pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:Actually I think that was Full Throttle, and it was in a Bomber, but the same pricipal still applies. What do others think? Could I fit 1.5kwh in the Fighter using this method?
Yeah that's full-throttles.

Another way to gain space is by using lower discharge rate lipo that is more volumetriclly energy dense then some of the higher discharge lipo.

Compare 15C to 30C cells and the higher rate ones are bigger and/heavier in many cases.

Also, you can measure the exact volume you have, then calculate the max theoretical pack that could fit depending on the cell's Wh/litre spec. That will give you the upper limit.

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jan 30 2012 9:00pm

voicecoils wrote: Another way to gain space is by using lower discharge rate lipo that is more volumetriclly energy dense then some of the higher discharge lipo.

Compare 15C to 30C cells and the higher rate ones are bigger and/heavier in many cases.

Also, you can measure the exact volume you have, then calculate the max theoretical pack that could fit depending on the cell's Wh/litre spec. That will give you the upper limit.
Ah ha. I thought there might be a way. Thanks Voicecoils. :D I'll look into it.
I suppose with a 20s pack the C rating could be a lot lower if I limit the max amps to 60 still. I could even go as low as 5C, which would also save $$$. :)
voicecoils wrote: Your bike was the first I've seen with the Duro BernMaster and they look like great tyres, more solid looking then the CrazyBob. Wider too.
Yeah they are a good intermediate tyre for mixing the road and dirt as I do quite a bit. They are however quite LOUD. I haven't installed a bell on the bike yet, and if I keep these tyres on I don't think I'll need to. The only people who don't hear me coming behind them are those with ear phones in. :lol: I seriously sound like a truck on the freeway @ 100kph. :shock:
voicecoils wrote: I think your temp monitoring idea is a good one without messing with the already tight axle wire channel. A factory installed probe would be nice though.
I've now put em on all sides of the motor to make it easier to see at a quick glance whilst stopped at lights etc. Haven't cracked 60C on the new stator yet. I think the extra speed helps keep things cooler.

Cheers
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Hyena   100 GW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Hyena » Jan 30 2012 10:12pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:Ah ha. I thought there might be a way. Thanks Voicecoils. :D I'll look into it.
I suppose with a 20s pack the C rating could be a lot lower if I limit the max amps to 60 still. I could even go as low as 5C, which would also save $$$. :)
You can't select the C rating that specifically - 15C is the lowest you can get, then its 20, 25, 30 etc.
The lower the C rate the more voltage sag you'll see, which limits your top speed a touch.There's actually not THAT much difference in the physical size of the packs and I was suprised to find the 30C packs are actually one of the best in terms of power:size ratio. It depends on the brand too, some are physically bigger than others. But if you're cramming as many packs in there as you can then the lower C rating packs probably don't get noticed much anyway, as they'll only be working around 2-3C much of the time.

15C zippys are 142x50x45mm
30C zippys are 146x53x53mm
20C turnigys are 152x50x51mm
(all 6S 5000mah)

You can fit a number of 30C zippys standing up along the inside of the fighter frame where as the 20C turnigys don't fit - so while they're 2-3mm narrower you have to orientate them different to fit, which ultimately can mean you'll fit less in overall.

The other consideration is how to parallel all the discharge and balance tap wires - which I'm in the process of doing now and it makes the job quite tough.
Jamming a heap of bricks in there is one thing but wiring them all up in series/parallel is A: hard and B: space consuming. It also has to be done in such a way that the sub packs can be inserted and removed if necessary
Yeah they are a good intermediate tyre for mixing the road and dirt as I do quite a bit. They are however quite LOUD.
I like the DMR moto RTs. They're a good mix for both offroad, are reasonably quiet and quite balloony/chunky looking.

Haven't cracked 60C on the new stator yet.
I measured one of my hubs the other day with an IR thermometre, measuring both the surface of the side covers and the windings (through air cooling holes)
After a fairly constant moderate load (high speed riding on the flat) the side covers were 60C but the windings were 95C. Using my 'hand thermometre' 60C feels pretty damn hot and you can't tough the side cover for more than a second. So if you're seeing much over 60 at the side covers I'd start taking it easy.
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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jan 31 2012 9:51pm

Hyena wrote: You can't select the C rating that specifically - 15C is the lowest you can get, then its 20, 25, 30 etc.
The lower the C rate the more voltage sag you'll see, which limits your top speed a touch.There's actually not THAT much difference in the physical size of the packs and I was suprised to find the 30C packs are actually one of the best in terms of power:size ratio. It depends on the brand too, some are physically bigger than others. But if you're cramming as many packs in there as you can then the lower C rating packs probably don't get noticed much anyway, as they'll only be working around 2-3C much of the time.

15C zippys are 142x50x45mm
30C zippys are 146x53x53mm
20C turnigys are 152x50x51mm
(all 6S 5000mah)
Thanks for that Hyena. Looking at the measurements, if you managed to fit 6x 30C zippys in each row, then I should be able to fit 7x 15C zippys in each row as the 8mm less in width per pack adds up to 48mm overall allowing enough room for one extra pack per side. Then all I have to do is fit one pack randomly somewhere (probably under the CA area) and I can do 18s5p. :) Now that sounds like the capacity I'm after. :mrgreen:
Hyena wrote: I measured one of my hubs the other day with an IR thermometre, measuring both the surface of the side covers and the windings (through air cooling holes)
After a fairly constant moderate load (high speed riding on the flat) the side covers were 60C but the windings were 95C. Using my 'hand thermometre' 60C feels pretty damn hot and you can't tough the side cover for more than a second. So if you're seeing much over 60 at the side covers I'd start taking it easy.
Crap, didn't realise that. I might buy some of the lower temp rated stickers as well then and monitor from 30-60C. Was that on a HS3548 or your new motor?

Cheers
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Justtoby » Feb 02 2012 3:18pm

I took the bike to see a client the other day, he is a local bike shop manager and he is friends with one of my other clients who was an earlier downhill world champ rider, I let him have a go and before he got on I could tell he wanted to hate it ads he was super fit and wondered why he might need a battery to help ride this heavy bike....he came back and asked if he could go for a longer ride...he loved it and was taking pics on his phone!

So many Lycra riders just do not want to listen to the benefits of an ebike and they don't get what it can be used for...he said it was like an electric motor cross bike that was silent.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by knoxie » Feb 02 2012 6:14pm

Brilliant! :mrgreen: I am pretty sue Rob Warner would rag the sh*t out of one of these too, he doesnt live that far from you and me, gotta love Rob :P crikey this was 1998!!

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by full-throttle » Feb 02 2012 7:36pm

Wow Knoxie, was it really 1998? Seem it was only like a couple of years ago.. Oh, yeah - the orange Marzocchi Bomber forks, they pretty much gave birth to freeride.

What was the first MTB video you ever watched? Think it was Vicious Cycle for me, followed by Mud Cows and Chainsmoke.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Justtoby » Feb 03 2012 11:46am

Good to see you on here knoxie.

Brendan Fairclough lives about 5 miles from my house and when I went round there I saw guys doing amazing stuff on his jump track in the garden whilst he and I had a sensible business meeting, quite odd with blokes doing heel clicks past your window! :mrgreen:

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by knoxie » Feb 03 2012 1:45pm

full-throttle wrote:Wow Knoxie, was it really 1998? Seem it was only like a couple of years ago.. Oh, yeah - the orange Marzocchi Bomber forks, they pretty much gave birth to freeride.

What was the first MTB video you ever watched? Think it was Vicious Cycle for me, followed by Mud Cows and Chainsmoke.
Hi Mate

Yes I reckon Mudcows was one of the first ones, I also loved the Sprung movies as well, I met rob a few times notably at the Malvern classic back in the day, he was so laid back, although it was clear his good buddy Steve Peat was going on to great things, he was amazing.
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by knoxie » Feb 03 2012 1:47pm

Justtoby wrote:Good to see you on here knoxie.

Brendan Fairclough lives about 5 miles from my house and when I went round there I saw guys doing amazing stuff on his jump track in the garden whilst he and I had a sensible business meeting, quite odd with blokes doing heel clicks past your window! :mrgreen:
Oh right cool!! yes I used to be pretty handy on a bike certainly when it came to riding on just one wheel! ha ha, but when you see these young kids up at the jumps they are just mind blowing, the stuff they are doing now is awesome :-) hey you should be able to get that bike of yours out in the snow this weekend :-)
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Feb 05 2012 12:56am

Took my Fighter for a ride to Homebush Olyimpic park (where the Sydney 2000 Olympics were held) and took some video. This was on my old Oregon Scientific extreme sports cam, so quality ain't that good, especially sound.

I mounted the camera to the cross bar on the front forks just above the wheel. It was a tight squeeze, but I managed to fit it with about a cm to spare from the camera rubbing the tire. The angle of the mount meant that bottoming out the suspension didn't cause the camera to hit the frame at all.

On the way I tried to cut across an oval to do a jump I've done before. This time I kinda failed though. :lol:


This is just a nice area of Homebush to ride in. I especially like the fountains. :)


So I attempted to ride up this really steep track on the side of this hill. Half way up I had to stop cause my handle bars rotated forwards on me. Guess I didn't do em up tight enough when I first got the bike. :lol:


This was on the other side. It's a lot steeper than it looks. I forgot I had the rear suspension leaver set to firm so the rear was bouncing all over the place, and the back wheel was locked up the whole time. It's the front you can hear squealing.


After this decent one of the rear wheel dropouts had slid backwards and the rear wheel was rubbing on the side of the swing arm. As I didn't have a spanner large enough with me I just had to kick it back into place and ride home...carefully. Now I carry a spanner with me at all times. :)

Cheers
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Justtoby » Feb 05 2012 7:21am

Thanks for posting. Nice vids

It sounds like you need to do a spanner check all over your bike.

I have never had anything other than the side panels come loose and that from where I first fitted the battery and forgot to tighten up fully once the battery had settled in to place on the foam.

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Kepler » Feb 05 2012 6:23pm

Thought this was good picture of a group of Stealth's taken on a recent cruise by full-throttle.
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by full-throttle » Feb 05 2012 7:11pm

I think it's t3sla's picture, mine is somewhere down on this page

Great ride BTW!

I ended up using 17Ah, going from 4.15V per cell to 3.68V - not bad for a 70km trip!

The motor got very warm by the end, wish I had these stickers on Fri
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Kepler » Feb 05 2012 8:11pm

You are right. My appologies to t3sla.

I like your photo too.
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Hyena » Feb 05 2012 8:21pm

Nice, we must have nearly enough stealth owners in Sydney now to have a meet up :)
I'll organise one in a few months

As per my build thread here's a quick run of me testing the new motor on my fighter yesterday - nothing too exciting just a few flybys

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Kepler » Feb 05 2012 9:48pm

full-throttle wrote:
I ended up using 17Ah, going from 4.15V per cell to 3.68V - not bad for a 70km trip!

The motor got very warm by the end, wish I had these stickers on Fri
It was a good pace on the way back that is for sure. The two Bombers and Fighter were staying with the traffic for most of the time. I did 90km and ended up using about 14Ah (at 120V though) Used 4Ah for the first half and 10Ah on the way home. :lol:
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Cowardlyduck » Feb 05 2012 10:43pm

full-throttle wrote:I think it's t3sla's picture, mine is somewhere down on this page

Great ride BTW!

I ended up using 17Ah, going from 4.15V per cell to 3.68V - not bad for a 70km trip!

The motor got very warm by the end, wish I had these stickers on Fri
temp.jpg
Yeah, there the one's I've got on. Hyena tested it, and at 60C on the external cover the windings are at 90C, so I might buy a bunch of the 30-60C one's as well for my Fighter cause that's a little too hot if you ask me.
Kepler wrote: It was a good pace on the way back that is for sure. The two Bombers and Fighter were staying with the traffic for most of the time. I did 90km and ended up using about 14Ah (at 120V though) Used 4Ah for the first half and 10Ah on the way home. :lol:
Were you guy's cruisin without much stop start?

I never see such good range per AH. Best I've seen so far has been around 11.5Ah for 35km.

I do tend to WOT a lot though, and my tires are not very efficient. Worst I've seen was 19.7Ah for 29km.
Hyena wrote:Nice, we must have nearly enough stealth owners in Sydney now to have a meet up :)
I'll organise one in a few months
That'd be awesome. I'm keen. :)

Cheers
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by full-throttle » Feb 05 2012 11:37pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:Yeah, there the one's I've got on. Hyena tested it, and at 60C on the external cover the windings are at 90C, so I might buy a bunch of the 30-60C one's as well for my Fighter cause that's a little too hot if you ask me.
I only care about magnets and enamel on the windings, so 70-80degC external will do for now. So tempted to drill the covers..
Kepler wrote:It was a good pace on the way back that is for sure. The two Bombers and Fighter were staying with the traffic for most of the time. I did 90km and ended up using about 14Ah (at 120V though)
It was so much fun seeing drivers reaction as you guys passed cars lightly pedaling :lol: Oh yeah, my pack is 16S - 66.4V at the start, 58.9V at the end. The last 20km were on the same route as my everyday commute, so I took the opportunity to explore all the shortcuts involving dropping off some retaining walls that my hardtail wouldn't like.

On a slightly related note - scored 4x HWS600-24 power supplies (similar to MW 600W) today! In a nice metal box. Lab clean up :roll: :lol: Should be able to charge my pack in under an hour 8)

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Hyena » Feb 06 2012 12:02am

full-throttle wrote:So tempted to drill the covers..
Hang off on that, I'm working on some sweet CNC side cover designs that will look better than simple drill holes.
Hows about a series of lightning bolt air holes around the outer rim of the hub ? 8)
On a slightly related note - scored 4x HWS600-24 power supplies (similar to MW 600W) today! In a nice metal box. Lab clean up :roll: :lol: Should be able to charge my pack in under an hour 8)
Surely you only need 2 and want to give the other 2 to me :wink: :P
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by full-throttle » Feb 06 2012 12:29am

Sounds good! Would go well with HopeTech Gothic rotors
Image
Just avoid sharp corners, don't want any stress concentrators.

The supplies are 24V/27A nominal, adjustable 19.2~28.8V so I'll need 3 of them (57.6~86.4V)

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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Hyena » Feb 06 2012 12:53am

full-throttle wrote:Sounds good! Would go well with HopeTech Gothic rotors
Just avoid sharp corners, don't want any stress concentrators.
Yeah thats along the lines of what I was thinking, though probably a little more spread out to make the shape more well defined (and not weaken the side covers too much) There won't be any corners too sharp, the CNC bits I've looked at only go down to 3mm so everything will be rounded. It might be a bit too hard to produce good looking lightning bolts actually...
The supplies are 24V/27A nominal, adjustable 19.2~28.8V so I'll need 3 of them (57.6~86.4V)
Nice, that's closer to 700w 8)
Shoot me a PM with a price if you feel like parting with the other one - I parallel charge in groups of 6S so one set to 25.1v and belting out 27a would make a nice "little" bulk charger
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by megacycle » Feb 06 2012 4:46am

Hyena wrote: As per my build thread here's a quick run of me testing the new motor on my fighter yesterday - nothing too exciting just a few flybys
Do you need brakes hyena, i thought you were using your bare plates of meat in the video :lol:
Nicely exfoliating on cornering.
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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Post by Justtoby » Feb 06 2012 1:12pm

Those fly by vids really give a good feeling of speed, how fast were you going (on a closed road of course)


I cannot work out why we do not have aluminium heat sinks on the outside of the motor covers in the air flow. My 911 has what they call "ducks feet" that hang down in the airflow an push air on to the brakes, I wonder if this would work on the hub motors too.

It wouldn't be that hard to have a small water pump running on a small radiator if someone could design this on to the hub. Subarus used to run a water spray on to the inter cooler, maybe we need a full throttle switch to give a mist on to a heat sink.

Whilst people are talking of cooling.....I was sat with a guy who has invested heavily in renewable energy. He showed me a motor for the car industry that produces 100bhp. It looked not much bigger than my bomber motor but one of the key ingredients was that it has cooling unions on the middle (I.e. in between where the spokes would be on a bike) and it could run water or oil cooling. Could you imagine even half that power on a bomber! :mrgreen:

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