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Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 7:46am
by PRW
Dunk,

another thing - until you are 100% sure it is resolved - ride with your thumb hovering over the regen button and front brake ready to go - you have nano-seconds before you get launched into the path of a car if it plays games...

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 7:53am
by Allex
I always have my thumb on the regen button, if something happen with the throttle I just press that button and nothing will ever happen :)
Ducky, you really need to do pinch drop outs, your axle will always move as long as you have a gap, even if the gap is 0,1mm, so you need to pinch those things to eliminate this problem. And the axle needs to be completely flat, so you need to machine it, do not play with any hand tools if you want it to work good. Stealth should do those pinchers when they started to deliver bikes with regen. Luckily my Bomber dropouts was so tight that I had to hammer the rear wheel in to place, so I never had this problem.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 6:21pm
by Cowardlyduck
Allex wrote:Ducky, you really need to do pinch drop outs, your axle will always move as long as you have a gap, even if the gap is 0,1mm, so you need to pinch those things to eliminate this problem. And the axle needs to be completely flat, so you need to machine it, do not play with any hand tools if you want it to work good. Stealth should do those pinchers when they started to deliver bikes with regen. Luckily my Bomber dropouts was so tight that I had to hammer the rear wheel in to place, so I never had this problem.
Glad you agree with me Allex.
I agree, the pinching dropouts would be ideal, but like your Bomber, now with the additional metal added to the axle flats, I will have to hammer my axle in also.
Hopefully between that and the modified torque blocks, I won't have any more issues, even with that gap.
I need to take another look at the torque block fit also...I'm not 100% confident that the torque block was properly seated in that photo above...I just chucked it in there to take the shot...the gap could actually be much less. :roll:

Oh and in relation to earlier comments made about increasing the power levels of the hub motor indefinitely with cooling...I never claimed that was possible.
My cooling setup is purely to enable a higher average power input over the course of a ride through rough/hilly terrain without the risk of overheating. My presumption that it might be possible to pump multiple KW through a '250w' rated motor still stands though...I agree the possibilities are not infinite, and there comes a point of diminishing returns, but that doesn't mean it would not be possible to do increase power levels 8 times over stock with adequate cooling. LFP's test's actually proved it was possible for a time before everything melted down from overheating...exactly what dumping a bunch of LN2 would prevent. Not that I would push anything to 8 times it's stock power level's for every day riding...just saying it's possible.

Cheers

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 7:11pm
by Samd
Useful understanding there. We'll stop ribbing you with thought experiments about heat dissipation.

It's important to understand the rules of motor saturation as it relates to hubs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_%28magnetic%29
And also the geometry of hubs as it relates to torque.
This is off topic to stealth, there are other threads for saturation and motor design.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 7:15pm
by Rix
Samd wrote:Useful understanding there. We'll stop ribbing you with thought experiments about heat dissipation.

It's important to understand the rules of motor saturation as it relates to hubs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturation_%28magnetic%29
And also the geometry of hubs as it relates to torque.
This is off topic to stealth, there are other threads for saturation and motor design.
This is right on topic amigo, spill it, give us the damn veggies.

Here is my latest vid.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 7:23pm
by Samd
Oh ok.
The issue with forcefeeding a small hub well beyond the design rate isn't getting the extra heat out of the motor. Its the ability for the copper coils to make extra magnetic flux to make more torque.

In fact when the coils can't make the extra power into magnetic field, it's forced to make it into radically more heat. A cooling system can carry it away to stop the motor burning out, but you don't get a chance for that extra kinetic energy out of the back end of the bike.

I had the same discussion with a guy who was running a gearmotor at 3.5kw and I was running mine at about 1.7kw. He couldn't understand why we were accelerating to 100meters in almost exactly the same time. He started looking to add fans and liquid cooling before I managed to get him to understand saturation.

Whats also a key point here is that the leaf motor, clyte or Mxus isn't 80% efficient, 90% efficient, or some other number. It's efficient at a certain point on it's design curve. Push it right outside that curve and you start seeing say 60% or less. Because the motor is saturated and the waste just becomes heat without resulting motion. Another way of restating the above.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 8:07pm
by Cowardlyduck
Thanks for explaining Sam.
It's good to understand why and where these limits exist.

I wonder where the rate of diminishing returns really takes over? I.e. It clearly works to push our 2-3KW rated hub motors to 5-6KW if we can manage to cool them. So that's about 2-3 times stock rated power levels.
I wonder at what point it would require exponentially more power in to get any more power out (prior to saturation)?
We've seen Allex and others successfully push 12Kw+ peaks through the Bombers X5403...about 4X the stock ratings of the motor.
In fact Doctor Bass has recently pushed 16Kw through his '3000W' MXUS...so 5.5X the stock rating, and he plans even more I think.

Anyway, off topic a bit, but good for everyone with a Stealth to know they can really push the stock motors beyond stock limits if they cool them adequately. :D

Cheers

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 11 2015 8:55pm
by Samd
Cowardlyduck wrote:Thanks for explaining Sam.
It's good to understand why and where these limits exist.

I wonder where the rate of diminishing returns really takes over?
Actually this is really easy to know thanks to Justin, and those who have paid to send him motors so that we can flog them to death and see what happens.
Science advances our lives and the engineering at hand is really well known, there is not really anything left to discover.

Here's an example close to home for your leafmotor - the 3540 is pretty close - just that the lams are 0.3mm thick not 0.5mm.
New Picture5.jpg
Yes you can feed a 3540 with it's 35mm wide stator 80v 80 amps. In the bottom right it will hold up for about 10 mins on the flat (depends on wheel size, fat rider etc).

See how the efficiency is 68 percent or less below 50kph? A bad move for squirting about on single trail with stops and starts, or being here on the goldfields. You get a motor that weighs 2kg less. And you add 4 or 6kg in batteries to close the efficiency gap.

See how the green efficiency curve absolutely tanks like a cliff over to the right? Welcome to saturation. You can cool that sucker with a thermonuclear fans, but the cold hard hand of science won't care.

There are plenty of other motors there to play with. There are some small amounts of error. And lots of variables.
Science is awesome!!

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 12:08am
by Theodore Voltaire
I have a question about the stock forks on the new B52 bombers. It seems the right fork leg is longer than the left. It that right? That makes it kind of hard to get the axle through the fork legs.

If you even the legs up at the bottom so that the axle slides through smoothly, the right leg stands higher than the left over the triple tree. What's the explanation for this?

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 12:17am
by Rix
Theodore Voltaire wrote:I have a question about the stock forks on the new B52 bombers. It seems the right fork leg is longer than the left. It that right? That makes it kind of hard to get the axle through the fork legs.

If you even the legs up at the bottom so that the axle slides through smoothly, the right leg stands higher than the left over the triple tree. What's the explanation for this?
You talking about the DNM? That leg rebound stroke has more travel to avoid topping out?

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 12:50am
by Theodore Voltaire
I see, what is the typical procedure for putting the axle in the forks?

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 2:05am
by remf
Some things are worth more than a thousand words...but the words are pretty good too.
Samd wrote:
New%20Picture5.jpg
New%20Picture5.jpg (42.73 KiB) Viewed 3485 times
Rix wrote:

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 3:54am
by QMS
URGENT URGENT URGENT DEMO BIKE JUST STOLEN#
Bomber/B52 #658 stolen from Glandore oval Edwardstown around 5pm today. False ID given and name given was Mark and female accomplice driving Red Honda Civic. Mark was unshaven, wearing black arai full face motorcross helmet, wearing dirty high vis top, blue jeans and sneakers. If anyone hears or spots this bike please call Lincoln on 0406 347514. Cheers
ImageImage

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 6:05am
by kiwiev
Lincoln that sucks big time :twisted:

Rick your video is cool and the music, what's that bush you are riding thru? Looks like it has thorns .

Cheers Kiwi

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 7:04am
by Rodney64
Sorry to hear Lincoln, hope you get your bike back.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 7:48am
by White Knight
I will keep a look out Lincoln, can't believe those scum. :evil:

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 8:43am
by Samd
bloody hell. stolen.
will be looking out for that. mark my word.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 11:31am
by Jimboyr6
Makes u wonder what thay do with them not the easyest thing to sell on
Especially in that trim, and no charger etc
Export it i suppose,or break it but still whos gona buy ?
Fockers

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 12:24pm
by Rix
kiwiev wrote:Lincoln that sucks big time :twisted:

Rick your video is cool and the music, what's that bush you are riding thru? Looks like it has thorns .

Cheers Kiwi
Thanks Kiwi, yah, there is a lot of thorns and cactus needles. I dug about 100 or so out of my tires after the ride. Mr Tuffy in the front, MC on the rear.
Makes u wonder what thay do with them not the easyest thing to sell on
Especially in that trim, and no charger etc
Export it i suppose,or break it but still whos gona buy ?
Fockers
Very true Jimbo. The types of turds that steal these bikes aren't smart, they don't have a clue about charging these batteries, so they can't contact some EM3EV or BMS Batter and order a charger because they don't know what the HVC is. At some point, they will most likely contact Stealth and tell them they lost the charger to their ebike during a recent move and need to buy a new one. This happened last year in the US, some turd that stole a Bomber in Florida contacted Stealth for a battery charger. The Bomber had the frame number plate removed and the serial number on the Vboxx filed off. I filed a courtesy theft report in Nevada and forwarded it to the Miami Dade Police Department for action, don't know what the out come was, but it seems like they were having a hard time finding the victim/owner of the Bomber to positively identify the bike since all identifying number were removed. The positive with Lincoln's bike is we know how to get a hold of the owner. Some things to be aware of though. The yellow trim on this Bomber will most likely be spray painted black and will look like shit. That's how thugs do shit, they try to change the appearance just enough so they don't think people will know the bike is hot. The number plate on the head tube, that's gone. Rear fender may be removed as well. If someone here has photoshop skills, replicate this pic with all of the yellow parts flat black, and the fender removed. Oh yah, if there are stickers those are gone too. I think if Lincoln's Bomber is located, that's how it will be found.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 12 2015 5:29pm
by DunkenKBliths
[quote="QMS"]URGENT URGENT URGENT DEMO BIKE JUST STOLEN#

Just posted on Twitter...with picture...I have a few thousand followers...so hopefully it might get picked up !

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 13 2015 6:05am
by stevebills
QMS wrote:URGENT URGENT URGENT DEMO BIKE JUST STOLEN#
Bomber/B52 #658 stolen from Glandore oval Edwardstown around 5pm today. False ID given and name given was Mark and female accomplice driving Red Honda Civic. Mark was unshaven, wearing black arai full face motorcross helmet, wearing dirty high vis top, blue jeans and sneakers. If anyone hears or spots this bike please call Lincoln on 0406 347514. Cheers
ImageImage
I presume he took it for a test ride and never came back
and I would start taking a picture of every rider and take there dna on a lolly stick and fook me i would of followed him on a 65mph bomber adappto 12kw

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 13 2015 10:54am
by Theodore Voltaire
I need to ask this again because I'm still not clear on the answer. With the new DNM forks on B52s, is it correct that the lower legs don't line up the axle holes. This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What nincompoop thought up that design?

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 13 2015 11:51am
by Rix
Theodore Voltaire wrote:I need to ask this again because I'm still not clear on the answer. With the new DNM forks on B52s, is it correct that the lower legs don't line up the axle holes. This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What nincompoop thought up that design?
Its because they are a separate function fork. My current fork on my FIghter (Groove 180) is the same way.

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 13 2015 12:21pm
by Theodore Voltaire
Rix wrote:
Theodore Voltaire wrote:I need to ask this again because I'm still not clear on the answer. With the new DNM forks on B52s, is it correct that the lower legs don't line up the axle holes. This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What nincompoop thought up that design?
Its because they are a separate function fork. My current fork on my FIghter (Groove 180) is the same way.
Is seems like this would load the wheel bearing a little.

Another question is about the tightening procedure for the axle. Since the axle doesn't thread into the fork leg, what does the bolt on the right side of the axle do? Does it just act kind of like a cosmetic cover for the end of the axle?

Re: E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Posted: Aug 13 2015 1:55pm
by efMX Trials Electric Freeride
TV,
the top of the fork legs need to be even on both sides..
the front axle end nuts are a second security for not losing your front wheel..
http://www.dnmshock.com/upload_files/fork-manual.pdf
Theodore Voltaire wrote:
Rix wrote:
Theodore Voltaire wrote:I need to ask this again because I'm still not clear on the answer. With the new DNM forks on B52s, is it correct that the lower legs don't line up the axle holes. This doesn't seem like a good idea to me. What nincompoop thought up that design?
Its because they are a separate function fork. My current fork on my FIghter (Groove 180) is the same way.
Is seems like this would load the wheel bearing a little.

Another question is about the tightening procedure for the axle. Since the axle doesn't thread into the fork leg, what does the bolt on the right side of the axle do? Does it just act kind of like a cosmetic cover for the end of the axle?