Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by x88x » Jan 11 2011 6:32pm

pdf wrote:That is a a pretty nice bike, but is an electric trial bike, not an ebike.
Maybe this is a topic for a different thread, but why do you say it's not an ebike? Where do you draw the line? It has pedals and an electric motor, and can be powered by either. The only thing that's different is this has a custom frame with beefier shocks. By that token is a DH MTB not a bike because it has a special frame and big shocks? I fail to see the difference.

EDIT:
Or were you talking about the one in the link? ...in which case you can ignore the above... >_> <_<
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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dogman dan » Jan 11 2011 8:12pm

WOW,,,, I am like stunned by how nice that is.

If you live anywhere near the soutwest USA, you simply must come and show that thing off at the Death races this spring in Tucscon.

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by Gordo » Jan 11 2011 9:21pm

Guys;
The answers to all the questions are all over ES. Go search Arlo or Gwhy, Mark and others. If you put 10KW to the hubmotor, get ready to change your shorts. Heck my 300lb 3.5KW scooter will give you a wakeup call if you open the throttle wide from a dead stop.
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pdf   10 kW

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by pdf » Jan 11 2011 9:29pm

Or were you talking about the one in the link? ...in which case you can ignore the above... >_> <_<
Yeah, that was a bit confusing. If the bike in the thread will do what the bike in the link will do, then that is what I am interested in; something that will do what the electric motorcycle in the link will do but starting with a bike frame, not a motorcycle frame. Difference would be weight, components, rims, tires, etc. I defininitely consider the bike that started the thread to be an ebike, based on an innovative frame. Going to move my thoughts to a new thread. Don't want to dilute the thread. I like the idea of going with a monocoque frame as the base. Top notch job.
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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by johnnythefox » Jan 12 2011 1:18am

:shock: wow Well will you look at. I love this!
There"s a lot to like about this bike.
Lots of room inside for more cells and a charger an a nice clean look.
I don"t remember seeing the weight but should be light.
It"s got pedal"s so no need for license or insurance.
I want one. Great job.
Johnnythefox

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by katou » Jan 12 2011 5:58pm

I would love to hear some of those tips you got regarding the vac bagging! I've done a bit with fiberglass, but nothing with CF.

Kudos to you and the other machinists! Those are top notch bits you turned out. I hope I can do 1/4 so well!

Katou

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 14 2011 2:28am

x88x:
Is that from the knurling and the large lip? Good to know. I don't really have any experience with CF atm but it's one route I'm considering for custom frame build if I can convince myself that there won't be any issues with stuff like that.

Yes it is from the large lip, and the steps in the piece. Carbon Fiber was molded into shape around them using foam to create rib reinforcements, in separate steps.




Here is a video I threw together, pardon my bad editing, and squeaky brakes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrl7-h85EvY

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 17 2011 10:55pm

Here is a fun little track I found, it is hard pack dirt, about 3/4 mile long, flat, almost as if designed for electric bikes. If only it had some jumps and berms.

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I monitored the temperature after every 2 laps, racing against the clock so WOT most of the time and pedaling whenever possible.
The bike averaged 57.5 Watt*hours/mile under these conditions. After 6 laps the temperature of the case was up to 115*F. Phase wires (10ga) were around 80*F. At this point I let it cool down before doing any more laps. It is lots of fun, a great example of something you can do with electric bikes that isn't really practical on a bicycle or motorcycle.

Katau:
Regarding vacuum bagging, it is a little tricky to keep it from pulling the wet carbon fiber around so we used foam to hold everything in place, the foam pieces were all designed in Solidworks, which allowed us to keep within tolerances and replicate the geometries in the computer design. There needs to be plenty of slack in the vacuum bag, to allow the bag to get all the way into the corners. We did this by doubling the sealing tape over itself every so often, which created slack areas in the bag. You can see what I am talking about in these pictures of a frame subcomponent.
It is important that the surface (if any) you vacuum bag against has vacuum integrity. When sealing the bag against the dum dum tape it should be stretched to avoid wrinkles that can leak air. It helps to have an extra set of hands. Try and be as prepared as possible before you get resin all over everything, have all of your peel-ply and breather cloth cut and ready to go. We squeezed the resin into the carbon fiber to ensure permeation then squeezed it out with an improvised tool that works like a bread roller.The vacuum tube should have a catch can to prevent resin from being sucked into the tube.That's about all I can think of at the moment, other than that it is kind of similar to working with fiberglass.

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Head tube Piece

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Upper Shock Mt.

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Last edited by dpearce on Sep 16 2011 1:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dpearce   1 W

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 18 2011 12:49am


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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by Fishmasterdan » Jan 18 2011 8:41pm

I love your bike!!

Make me a frame please!!!

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dpearce   1 W

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 25 2011 10:17pm

Thanks!

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Last edited by dpearce on Sep 16 2011 1:10pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by AussieJester » Jan 25 2011 10:33pm

Very nice work indeed....only one extremely minor criticism...the front mudguard, needs the width trimmed IMHO, Cut it on the second crease from the outer edge, would look the goods i think way to wide for the rest of the bike...Either way the bike is amazing... Quick question i dont think i missed you mentioning it appoologies if i have, how do you go about stopping the carbon fiber/epoxy sticking to the bag, looks like some forme of waxed/grease paper in there?

KiM


EDiT: Quick photochop too show what i am getting at re: slimming the mudguard-->

After
CIMG2830.jpg
Before
CIMG2830before.jpg

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dpearce   1 W

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 25 2011 11:00pm

Aussie Jester:
Quick question i dont think i missed you mentioning it appoologies if i have, how do you go about stopping the carbon fiber/epoxy sticking to the bag, looks like some forme of waxed/grease paper in there?

That is what the peelply layer is for. It is a permeable material that goes directly on the wet carbon fiber, then the breather material on top of that, all under the vacuum bag. It peels off easily. That is also what gives it that orangepeel finish. As for the fender, it is a MX dirt bike fender, so it is pretty big. I cut the front off of it to make the rear fender, when I did it I thought about cutting it down further like you suggested, but I like how it makes it look like a dirt bike. It works fine, and for me form follows function.
Thanks!
Image

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dpearce   1 W

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 25 2011 11:01pm

That does look better, might have to reconsider that...
Thanks-dp

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by John in CR » Jan 26 2011 1:20am

dpearce,

It looks like everything is holding up great. One question, how is the crank position working out for you?

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 26 2011 5:36pm

JohninCR:
The crank position works great. It was designed to have a more relaxed seating position, like a motorcycle where i can sit almost straight up, as opposed to the hunched over mountain bike position. I am 6'2" and the way it pedals for me when sitting feels more like a beach cruiser, if I need to pedal hard I just stand up. It has 5 speeds, but I usually just leave it in high, which is 34/14 I think. While this position compromises pedaling efficiency, the motor is there to back you up, so I don't feel like I have sacrificed anything at the expense of comfort. The seat also feels safer, without that danger zone in front of your seat..when you are off-roading, it is not if but when you fall, and that area in front of the seat on bicycles looks like like an accident waiting to happen, a bicycle vasectomy kind of accident..so I like how the MX style seat provides padding in that area.

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by Tom Tom » Jan 26 2011 5:55pm

kudos to a fantastic build!

I too like the seat design. Sure seems like you can just sit back and coast/enjoy the ride if you like.

Question, what does the bike weigh?

-Tom

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 26 2011 6:00pm

Thank you! Speaking of which, I was out doing just that, and trying to find some dirt around here. I am going to go to some local trails soon and see how it really handles.


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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by torker » Jan 26 2011 6:16pm

Nice Pontiac. Uh Nice video too :D
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 28 2011 12:39am

:shock:

excellent desing!

Congrat!.. and ... welcome on E-S as well!

I would have your talent to make esthetic ebike like your's .. mine look like Mad max stuff! :lol: with 10+kilowatt power!

Where did you learned how to work with carbon fiber ?

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by disndat » Jan 28 2011 12:58am

If I had to guess on where you are located based on the video I would say either manhattan beach or redondo beach ca?I am in studio city but I try to ride the bike path from santa monica to redondo.Am I close?
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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by etard » Jan 28 2011 1:30am

He lives somewhere near Magnum P.I. judging by the video. :lol:
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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 29 2011 12:32am

DoctorBass:

excellent desing!

Congrat!.. and ... welcome on E-S as well!

I would have your talent to make esthetic ebike like your's .. mine look like Mad max stuff! :lol: with 10+kilowatt power!

Where did you learned how to work with carbon fiber ?

: Thank you!
I can't wait to get some more power like that!
My experience with carbon fiber is limited to this project. I have worked with fiberglass here and there, and one of the group members had some experience with the processes through the school's rocket lab program. The tricky part was getting what was getting the real parts to match what was designed in the computer, I was surprised with how well it worked out. We did test samples to validate thickness of 1 layer, 2 layers, etc and then everything was designed around these dimensions. The jigs held everything in place accurately. We had to really think out the order of these processes before starting to build the frame, I think the results depend on planning more than skill. Working with carbon fiber is like baking a cake, and none of us are experienced cooks..we just hoped what came out was somewhat edible haha

disndat:

If I had to guess on where you are located based on the video I would say either manhattan beach or redondo beach ca?I am in studio city but I try to ride the bike path from santa monica to redondo.Am I close?

You are correct. You may have recognized the strand when I made a stop to check out the waves at El Porto. What a beautiful winter(?) day! I think Ive explored every park and patch of dirt in the Southbay, I am planning on going to some of the MTB trails in Palos Verdes and Malibu when I get a chance, and I will try and get some better videos of me riding it, not just from the handlebar cam.

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by dpearce » Jan 30 2011 8:53am

Finally went out for some fun at the local trails, got lobbed off the bike a couple times, and broke the derailer right away, I have to build something to protect that. Otherwise I like the way it handles and performs.

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Re: Electric Motocross Bicycle build (Tons of big pictures)

Post by Ypedal » Jan 30 2011 9:33am

8)

Bonus points + + + for not editing out the crashes ! :twisted:

You have done one excellent job of building that machine, light, fast and durable ( so far :lol: ! ) , I love it !

Geared hub, off road , if that motor holds up for a season without killing gears the way you are riding it , i want a rig just like that one next !

Face on the guy at the end of the video = priceless ! :mrgreen:
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