MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Show off your E-bike creation here.
Post Reply
o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 22 2011 4:42pm

yep have cycle analyst. :D

I bet the sag won't be near as bad as on a ping! :D
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 24 2011 4:05pm

I got my Mac today and controller.

I must t install it on my bike tomorrow. Can't go out cycling much lately because the god damn wind just won't go away for the last few weeks! :cry: And when I do go out I can only go half the distance because the wind is so strong! And the motor would make it easier :D

Hey David my motor is silver, how come yours is black? lol

It doesn't look like HK will have the 8 ah 6S Zippy's any time soon, but I'm sure I can get a loan of my old Ping from pat for a while!


Mark
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 25 2011 8:55am

Okay, I installed the motor. I had to use 4x 5mm washers on the motor for the disk.

The only thing now is I need better torque arms than what I got for this new project!

So I won't be able to test it for a while!

I took it for a cycle today for a little bit and I'm impressed so far with the freewheeling of this motor. It beats the crap out of the pie, definitely! So I think I could be very happy as this is what I want is to be able to pedal and use the throttle for hills and wind when I'm tired!

I imagine because of the better freewheeling it would increase range because I will be able to pedal a lot easier than the pie, that motor was really a leg killer, or knee killer as I have dodgy knees because of bad arches!


Mark
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 25 2011 2:36pm

Hey, this is my build thread, buddy ;)

No clue why your motor isn't painted and mine is. There have been changes to the motor though recently with the bigger gears and all.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 25 2011 3:01pm

Ha ha yes David, I won't hijack your thread any more LOL

My motor is better than yours! :twisted:
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 25 2011 11:25pm

o00scorpion00o wrote:My motor is better than yours! :twisted:
It may be, if you have steel cover plates. I can't run disc brakes until i get new cover plates. :|

Well, guess who got a toy in the mail yesterday ....
A meanwell 48v S-350 from sureelectronics!
Looks to be genuine, or at least a DAMN good copy. Good enough for me.
Voltage adjustment is rather high, from 39.8v to 59.3v !! :lol:

I promptly cut the shunt, after reading that it would put out 7 amps after cutting it.

Image

And promptly threw away this AC power cord with it that is both dangerous and terribly undersized.... look at this thing, it's smaller than the balance wires on my lipo batteries!!!

Image

Wired it up.

Image

6.67 amps.... :| .... damnit.. i should have done the resistor mod.. i was just worried about the buzzing..
But... it's not buzzing so, hey. That's good. However at 10S & 41.0v, i am running way under it's capacity.

Image

Maybe this will spur me to switch over to 12S or 13S land.
At 12S ( 49.2v ), that's only 328 watts.
At 13S ( 53.3v ), that's 355.511 watts.

Both are well within the range of the power this unit can produce, so.. hm.... :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 26 2011 5:18am

Interesting stuff David,


So will you take that charger with you while out and about or use it as your main charger?


Does it cut off when the battery is chargerd? I'm sure it senses when the current drops? I think There was a vid posted here a while ago of someone using a meanwell but with much higher current and I think he used a battery medic to balance which I think would be rather slow? But you are lucky that you don't need to balance much!

I would be afraid of using too much voltage or not enough to charge my 12S.

By the way David that's a very impressive job you did with your torque arms, it looks super tidy, you would think it was an origional part of the bike. I'm waiting for the adjustable torque arm from Ampedbikes, The dropouts on my bike are really awkward!

I can't wait to get test out the mac, but it's soooo cold for May and the wind bla I think I'll move to Oregan! Ha or California, hell I bet even New York has better weather than we do! :( . People who live in good climates don't know how lucky they are lol :mrgreen: I just hope it gets better when I get the bike sorted!

Mark
Mark
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 26 2011 5:45am

o00scorpion00o wrote:Interesting stuff David,

So will you take that charger with you while out and about or use it as your main charger?
Yeah, if need be. But it will stay home for the most part. Need to make the wiring a bit more um.. kosher before it hits the road. And there is a wobbly transformer that needs securing inside. Other than that, it would make a great portable charger.. meanwell even sells a 200w unit that looks like it can be modded as such, and is smaller too.
o00scorpion00o wrote:Does it cut off when the battery is chargerd? I'm sure it senses when the current drops? I think There was a vid posted here a while ago of someone using a meanwell but with much higher current and I think he used a battery medic to balance which I think would be rather slow? But you are lucky that you don't need to balance much!

I would be afraid of using too much voltage or not enough to charge my 12S.
Nope, it is not designed to cut off at a certain amperage, it should just float at a very low amp level until the battery is disconnected. As the battery nears the end of the charge though, current will slowly taper off until the battery holds it's voltage.

As for charging too high, see the wattmeter.. i can adjust the voltage via the potentiometer in the front.. not too hard, just multiply your target average cell voltage by the number of cells and set the meanwell to that voltage.

If you're nervous about it though, you can look into one of those bmsbattery shell chargers. They do make really high watt ones.

BTW what's on my bike is torque plates not torque arms. sorry to correct you but they are two distinct things. Li-ghtcycle made those for me. Thank god for local ebikers with a garage PLUS a surplus of time on their hands cuz that took forever..

The weather here sucks too, i only get out maybe once a week. next week's forecast is more intermittent rain and constant cloud cover with the threat of a sudden vicious downpour.

New york is mid 70F and sunny 80% of the week right now.
London is getting 4 more sunny days over the next 10 days.

Almost halfway through the year and we haven't had more than 3 days of consecutive sun yet.

http://beta.weather.com/weather/tenday/USOR0275

If your weather is worse than this, then yeah i feel bad for ya.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 26 2011 9:07am

neptronix wrote:
I would be afraid of using too much voltage or not enough to charge my 12S.
neptronix wrote:Nope, it is not designed to cut off at a certain amperage, it should just float at a very low amp level until the battery is disconnected. As the battery nears the end of the charge though, current will slowly taper off until the battery holds it's voltage.
So does that mean you will overcharge it if you don't disconnect it?
neptronix wrote:As for charging too high, see the wattmeter.. i can adjust the voltage via the potentiometer in the front.. not too hard, just multiply your target average cell voltage by the number of cells and set the meanwell to that voltage.
Okay so 4.15 volts x 12 = 49.8. so setting it to 50 volts should do?

I'm assuming the charger will have to cc or cv or both?
neptronix wrote:If you're nervous about it though, you can look into one of those bmsbattery shell chargers. They do make really high watt ones.
Ah I think for now the 20 amp I charger will more than meet my needs and It's tiny, and the power supply isn't any bigger than my 5 amp ping charger. So on the rare occasion I need to top up from home it will do!

BTW what's on my bike is torque plates not torque arms. sorry to correct you but they are two distinct things. Li-ghtcycle made those for me. Thank god for local ebikers with a garage PLUS a surplus of time on their hands cuz that took forever..[/quote]

Indeed you are correct, just a bad habit, like saying amps instead of ah for battery capacity! :D
neptronix wrote:The weather here sucks too, i only get out maybe once a week. next week's forecast is more intermittent rain and constant cloud cover with the threat of a sudden vicious downpour.

New york is mid 70F and sunny 80% of the week right now.
London is getting 4 more sunny days over the next 10 days.

Almost halfway through the year and we haven't had more than 3 days of consecutive sun yet.

http://beta.weather.com/weather/tenday/USOR0275

If your weather is worse than this, then yeah i feel bad for ya.
Well 30 mph gusts are not nice and 20 mph winds all the time the last few weeks, sometimes stronger sometimes less, but always windy!

So that's why I need an E-Bike lol :mrgreen:

Look at the pic and I'm 5 miles north of the Carlow station!
pic 1.jpg
pic 1.jpg (174.65 KiB) Viewed 681 times
London is a fair bit away and they usually get better weather than we do, though Wales and Scotland would get pretty much the same, though I think Ireland is far wetter especially the west and north, and windy as we get the full blast of the Atlantic!

I think the temps there and here are around the same and the weather, though the wind chill makes it a lot cooler here and it makes out door activities less appealing. It's funny when you look at satellite pics of the mainland mostly clear all the time apart from a few crazy thunderstorms now and then, but it can get very hot there and we don't get extremes like some places!

I love talking about weather! :lol:

Right I'm off to check my freewheel,

Mark
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 26 2011 3:55pm

o00scorpion00o wrote:
neptronix wrote:
I would be afraid of using too much voltage or not enough to charge my 12S.
neptronix wrote:Nope, it is not designed to cut off at a certain amperage, it should just float at a very low amp level until the battery is disconnected. As the battery nears the end of the charge though, current will slowly taper off until the battery holds it's voltage.
So does that mean you will overcharge it if you don't disconnect it?
That means that it won't overcharge if you leave it connected.
Can't put amps in something that isn't asking for amps :)

It is the voltage difference of the battery pack VS the charger's voltage that makes the battery require amps to fill it up. If you have ever used a lipo charger, you will know that when the target voltage is achieved, the amp draw starts to gradually decrease. This is not a function of the charger really, more like a function of electricity. If you have a watt meter connected to a battery on any charger actually, you will see this.

So with no load on the meanwell since the battery voltage and meanwell voltage are the same, the meanwell will only pump out power when the battery voltage drops... which will naturally occur just a tiny bit with any lithium battery. So overall, the charger may be putting 0.00001 amps into the battery constantly since the battery can't keep it's voltage elevated ( it will naturally settle a bit lower )

There is a more technically correct way to explain this, but i have explained it the best way i can in layman's terms.

And the best way to understand it is with a watt meter and your eyes :)
o00scorpion00o wrote:Okay so 4.15 volts x 12 = 49.8. so setting it to 50 volts should do?
I'm assuming the charger will have to cc or cv or both?
You are correct.
The meanwell does CC/CV naturally, so yes. ( the CV part is when the voltage is held constant, and the amps are gradually declining as the battery is more able to hold the target voltage on it's own. )

That sucks about the wind and chillyness. Ok, i'll stop whining about the weather, you win :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 26 2011 4:35pm

Thanks for explaining that David! :D

I may use a meanwell in the future but for now I'll be happy with the Icharger, I have to get used to LiPo first, and hopefully I won't burn the house down when I first connect it all together! :D

Check out the 1500 watt meanwell, adjustable voltage from 43.2-56 volts. 31 amps that would charge my 8ah 12S pretty quick :mrgreen:

Even the 16 ah pack would charge pretty fast! :mrgreen:
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 27 2011 4:28am

Would I be able to charge my 16ah pack with the meanwell or would I have to break it down into 8ah and charge them separately?
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 27 2011 5:11am

PMing you the answer, in the interest of keeping my build thread less cluttered.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 28 2011 8:57pm

Image

Image
Image

I was pedaling along with my girlfriend today, getting groceries etc. aaaannd.. bam, pedal power slips. Motor goes all wobbly on the freewheel side, and it starts rubbing up against my brake etc. :evil: and i hobble home...

I have the old plate cover but i thought that if i didn't stand on the pedals or do anything stupid, i wouldn't break this..
Well, this motor is a bookend until i get a new freewheel side motor cover... :evil:
Last edited by neptronix on May 29 2011 3:24am, edited 1 time in total.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10784
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by spinningmagnets » May 28 2011 9:34pm

Okay so 4.15 volts x 12 = 49.8. so setting it to 50 volts should do?
o00scorpion00o, I highly recommend you adjust for 49V instead of 50V, as 49.2V equals 4.1V per cell in a 12S pack. I am told packs don't live as long and have more individual cell balancing headaches at any voltage above that. Many LiPo chargers will charge to 4.15 or 4.2V per cell to squeeze a little more distance from the pack (doesn't really add up to much more, though), and the Lithium-Ion (LiIo) setting charges to 4.1V per-cell. Also, due to the normal variances in any product, your charger and even your volt-meter can easily be off by 0.2V

Neptronix, I'm sorry to see the breakage. I am glad you are being honest about it instead of hiding it. I still like cell_man, but if there is a QA or design problem, then it needs to be fixed as soon as possible. I am also planning to buy the 500W rear MAC, but I plan to use it as a non-hub on a cargo bike similar to John-in-CRs super-V mount, so hopefully there will be less stress on the axles and sidecovers for my application.
Last edited by spinningmagnets on May 29 2011 9:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 28 2011 9:52pm

spinningmagnets: I know cell_man will take care of me since he has in the past, but this is definitely aggravating.
Apparently they MAC has fixed this issue since, so i basically just have an older cover plate.

I think i will order a DD motor in the meantime.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 29 2011 3:21am

yay, i have a DD kit coming my way and updated versions of both cover plates.

I will survive i suppose. Will go pedal off some of the winter layer in the next week.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 29 2011 5:21am

neptronix wrote:yay, i have a DD kit coming my way and updated versions of both cover plates.

I will survive i suppose. Will go pedal off some of the winter layer in the next week.

That's the stuff! :D

Could have been the good lords way of telling you to shed the lbs? :mrgreen:

Spinningmagnets, thanks for that, I'm still trying to keep the numbers in my head. My Icharger can be set to 4.1.

Hey David, wasn't it lucky you weren't standing up that time while putting pressure on those peddles??? :shock: :shock: :shock:


Mark
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 29 2011 5:28am

What direct drive motor are you getting David? and what voltage are you going to use?
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
Racer_X   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 429
Joined: Oct 01 2009 5:48am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by Racer_X » May 29 2011 5:52am

What direct drive motor are you getting David? and what voltage are you going to use?
+1
Cannondale F8 MTB, 9c 9x7, Regen,ThreeSpeed Cruise. with torque plates. 12s3p or 18s2p depending on mood.Maxxis Holy Roller in the summer and Schwalbe Ice Spiker in winter.
Backup bike Schwinn Heavy Duti Beach Cruiser, 9c 9x7 front Regen,ThreeSpeed Cruise. with clamping dropouts, Maxxis Holy Roller in the summer and Schwalbe Ice Spiker in winter.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » May 29 2011 2:11pm

Just the basic DD that comes in the cell_man kit.

Voltage? as high as it will go. Will start at 56v nominal, and probably go up to 76v nominal if it can handle it.
I think i will also start doing all the 9C mods to it too.

Or hell, maybe the girlfriend bike will get the DD and i'll keep the MAC. as long as i have two working and fast ebikes, to fend off the withdrawals :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1482
Joined: Jun 13 2010 6:47am
Location: Kildare, Ireland
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » May 29 2011 2:25pm

76 volts David, Oh yeahhh :D

I think you have to dump lots of current into direct drives to get decent torque out of them, not a problem though really unless you got lots of steep hills, though I think higher voltage gives you extra torque also!

I can't wait to test my Mac to see how it compares to my old magic pie!

Oh yeah definitely give your girlfriend the slower motor! :twisted:

Now if I could get my girlfriend on any kind of a bike I'd be happy! :?


Mark
Haibike EQ Trekking, powered by Bosch.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Jun 09 2011 12:01am

Well, the bike is still down & am waiting for parts. Should be here saturday or early next week.

In the meantime, been converting my lipos that have a funky / dead cell into what i call neptigy lipos.. hehe:

Image

You know, doing cell surgery on lipos is not all that bad really.
This is a little 2S pack that i'll use on my lights in lieu of a DC-DC converter since i will be experimenting with lots of varied voltages.

Image

The more i read this forum, the more i realize how little i know about electronics.. i don't even know how to read an electrical schematic.. so i got this off craigslist to poke around and learn. Pretty humbling but you have to start somewhere.

Other than that, been pedaling on my hybrid bike a lot. Seeing how fast i can go through speed traps, doing hill climbs and building up my strength for the day that the weather stops sucking.

Overcast and very humid here lately though. Sucks.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25654
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by amberwolf » Jun 09 2011 1:38am

I started with something a little like that, only much simpler and less cool-looking, for an "electronics" kit. I think mine had a transistor, but no ICs, not even LEDs. Relays, diodes, lamps. Mmm, a tiny motor, AM antenna coil like yours, speaker. I think that's it. 9V battery clip.

Mostly I ended up learning the very basics from a ham-radio friend I met due to a bike crash on a gravel road, then the RadioShack Forrest Mims III books and booklets (you should get those, if you can; they're nifty and have some useful stuff in them that can be adapted to bike-useful circuits). DeVry came after that, but really if I didn't already know something I would've dropped out, as they didn't really teach anything, they expected you to learn it on your own after some in-class "explanations". A couple of teachers were exceptional, but not most. (at LEAST 3/4 of my starting class quit before the end of the first trimester!)

It's not hard...just...takes time to learn. Some concepts are difficult at first, but suddenly BLAM you get them and lots of other things are easy after that. :) Like transistors, which I couldn't grasp, for years, until one teacher's explanation (which I wish I could remember) just suddenly lit my brain up.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13120
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Jun 09 2011 1:47am

Thanks for the peptalk, amberwolf :)
I had one of these when i was 12 but only succeeded in making some kind of AC power supply out of a nicad gameboy battery which eventually caused the battery to suffer a meltdown. I think the kit got taken away from me after that, LOL.

That sucks about Devry, i was always wary of schools like that. I think people do learn differently.. i for example am very visual.. show me how it works and i will grasp it instantly.. explain theory and metaphysical stuff for a few minutes and i'm lost.

I have learned a ton about electronics on this forum, but felt like a total idiot when i first come here and occasionally still do. I am a true believer that electric drive is the way of the future, so i'd like to know more..
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

Post Reply