MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

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o00scorpion00o   100 kW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » Mar 17 2011 6:52am

Does anyone know what current the mac motor will take before the phase wires fry ?

I know the bmc's had major problems!
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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by Ariane » Mar 17 2011 7:52am

o00scorpion00o wrote:Does anyone know what current the mac motor will take before the phase wires fry ?

I know the bmc's had major problems!
The melting phase wires occurred most of the time on the BMC 1000 Watts V3 motor with fast winding, needs higher current to get up the hill, BMC V2 600S or T (torque) didn't seem to have that kind of issues. A Mac motors is really close to a BMC 600 Watts therefore the risk off melting phase wire is reduce.

Good day!
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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 17 2011 1:10pm

o00scorpion00o wrote:Does anyone know what current the mac motor will take before the phase wires fry ?

I know the bmc's had major problems!
I don't know, but they look like they are 16 gauge :cry: . Oh well, nobody ever said geared motors were good for high amps.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

o00scorpion00o   100 kW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by o00scorpion00o » Mar 17 2011 1:55pm

Thank's for the reply guys,


Happy Saint Patrick's day ! :mrgreen:
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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by psycholist » Mar 18 2011 12:01am

Nice clean build Neptronix! Admiring those beefy flat dropouts. I have an Ironhorse Warrior and fabbing the torque plates is going to be a little challenging. Are those nordlock washers on your axle? Whered ya gettum?

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 18 2011 12:13am

nah, just the standard stuff that came with the MAC motor.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by Alan B » Mar 18 2011 1:02am

The grooves in stock hubmotor nuts often look somewhat like NordLocks, but they are only attempts at one way ridges. They may help but don't have the features of the NordLock - that requires the system to get tighter before it can loosen, which tends to keep it where it is, in a little "valley" at the low energy point, and not loosen.

I got some NordLock washers at Mcmaster Carr.

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 18 2011 1:16am

Thanks for the feedback, i saw the thread on those, but i think with the torque plates they are not necessary.
No axle rotation is possible, and the torque plates are certainly overspecced for my power level ( below 2000watt )

The pictures don't show it, but the dropout angle is at a backwards rake of an angle, meaning that i'd have to be going backwards at a high speed over a jump with the axle nut loose in order to have the wheel fall off.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by wineboyrider » Mar 19 2011 9:22am

Thanks for the feedback, i saw the thread on those, but i think with the torque plates they are not necessary.
No axle rotation is possible, and the torque plates are certainly overspecced for my power level ( below 2000watt )

The pictures don't show it, but the dropout angle is at a backwards rake of an angle, meaning that i'd have to be going backwards at a high speed over a jump with the axle nut loose in order to have the wheel fall off.
Yep. I agree. My bike might be a cheap one that I have my BMC motor on, but it's nice and secure in there.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by Danos » Mar 21 2011 9:34pm

Hey Neptronix, did the MAC 500w motor come as part of a complete kit from cell man or was it just a motor in wheel? I've had sporadic contact with cell man, he seems pretty busy. I'm after a complete kit with motor, rim, controller, throttle, etc for my first build...would rather buy a complete kit than peice it together from numerous different sources. Cheers.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 21 2011 9:48pm

Danos wrote:Hey Neptronix, did the MAC 500w motor come as part of a complete kit from cell man or was it just a motor in wheel? I've had sporadic contact with cell man, he seems pretty busy. I'm after a complete kit with motor, rim, controller, throttle, etc for my first build...would rather buy a complete kit than peice it together from numerous different sources. Cheers.
Yeah he is quite busy.
I got the motor in a rim, controller, and throttle all in one from him. He has been talking about making a kit but i think the gray gears are the holdup. I am sure he can sell you the same thing.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by Danos » Mar 21 2011 9:58pm

What speed wind is your MAC? Cell man told me he has a couple of different winds...one's good for about 50kph on 48v and the other about 40kph on 48v but slightly better for hill work. I'd be looking at the slower one to ensure good hill climbing performance.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 21 2011 10:32pm

No flippin idea.
I am sure this is the 'default wind'. I did not ask him for anything special. I have a strong feeling that the '50kph on 48v' is what i have.

This must be a pretty decent all-around wind though because it climbs hills very well, and has good speed on the flats considering i am only running it on 10S lipo.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 30 2011 10:42pm

Oh dear. I believe we have a new speed record.

Charged up a 15S lipo to 60v and put it on the bike.

Thanks to the 11t-28t DNP Epoch freewheel, i went 36mph pedaling today on a flat. :mrgreen:
That 11 tooth gear really makes pedaling at over 30mph possible.

No pedal speed was about 32mph. :mrgreen:

At this wattage, those torque plates are a lifesaver. The motor really wants to knock you back. Not wheelie power, but it will raise the front shock if you are leaning forward.

I see how geared motors can get killed at these voltages or above. That's a lot of torque to dump from a standing start.

I think i will go back to 37v/10S. I am happy with 23-29mph. 14S/15S is really more for show.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Mar 31 2011 9:38pm

Allright, well i had to do a 15S hillclimb test :mrgreen:

Battery charged to 60v, after a little bit of hoonin' around earlier.

Image

Image

Gnarly, no?

There were lots of stoplights, so i was climbing said hill at 20-29mph.
I had no idea it would go this fast up the hill. The torque band on this motor is like the gift that keeps giving.

Peak amps were 43a, which is bad considering the Infineon is only set to 30/80a.. hmmmmm..

Motor case did not get even warm to the touch !! what ???
Controller got pretty damn hot, now i understand why people use the 12fet controllers !! overkill is a necessity!!
The poor 5AH lipos were kinda hot. I suppose a constant 8C draw is a bit much for them, or sitting next to a controller that you could fry an egg on could have been the cause.

Went through 4ah on that hillclimb. Brakes were smoking hot on the way down. Certainly a good stress test, lol.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by gensem » Apr 03 2011 10:50pm

Hi nep,

I also have a MAC 500w, that got the gears stripped very fast. Now im waiting for the new stronger gears from cell_man.
I have the torque version, wich does 43-44km/h with a 48v 15ah ping on straight.
In the first ride I did after setting the bike, my controller was set to 30/75 and the bike could climb everything I tried way faster that I could imagine (BMS was cutting hehe. Peaks where around 42amps).
So I lowered the config to 25/63 I think and it was running fine until the gears break.
I would advise you to lower the amps if you are using the white nylon gears just to be on the safe side.

regards.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Apr 03 2011 11:19pm

Thanks gensem, and welcome to the forums btw, notice you only got 2 posts as of writing.

Yeah i considered the gears issues before i bought the motor. I bought a spare set knowing damn well that i could easily strip these before cell_man comes out with the new gray gears.

I already have had the motor apart and it's quite easy to replace the gears actually. Not too worried 'bout it !
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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gensem   100 kW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by gensem » Apr 04 2011 12:21am

Im starting to guess that im not good changing the MAC gears, because I needed alot of time using the proper tool (dont know the name of the tool, its a 3 leg tool to pull the gears assembly out.) And it was damn hard to take apart.
In the end it didnt help much because my 9fet controller stopped working.
As you noticed the 9fet controller does get really hot doing hills in a sunny day. So i ll be ordering a 12fet

All in all, seens like a good hub motor and I ll be running it again as soon I have the stronger gears and the new controller.

Planning to run it on 20s lifepo4 using a 12fet controller set to 29a/87 phase = 49 amp I think

Shoulda render me alot of torque if I dont blow the motor at 3,2kw input peaks.
I dont have a Cycle analyst yet but ebikes.ca simulator is giving me figures of almost 3 hps (2,1kw)output power and 120 lbs of thrust.

My plan is to have a realiable commuter with 60v 45-50amp top speed of around 51-52km/h using the mac torque motor.
But I might be pushing a little.


Sorry for my bad english, but im Brazilian and I never had english classes.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Apr 04 2011 5:00am

45-50 amps? you may want to upgrade the phase cables as they are, i believe, 16 gauge.. eat least on my motor O_O
( lots of power going through thin wires = resistance = heat )

Even 29a/72v, should be a blast!!

P.S. your english is quote good!

P.P.S. us.itselectric.ca sells a BMC/MAC spare gear + clutch set if you need one. It has a steel gear but the other 2 are original nylons. This would be great if you had one gear that survived the torture :lol:
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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gensem   100 kW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by gensem » Apr 04 2011 4:53pm

my idea is to have the controller set to 29 and phase to 87 amps running at 60v.
I ll probably cut the phase wires near the axel and solder a 10/12 awg ones. Melting should be less likely with only 10 centimeter of thin wires.
Im trying to avoid the steel gears because they are too strong and might brake some teeths of central axel.
I ll post my results when i get all the parts together.
But this could take a while because brazilian customs are utterly slow.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Apr 04 2011 5:28pm

I agree about the steel gears. I bought the BMC assembly because i wanted an extra clutch unit and 2 nylon gears. The steel gears will be noisy and the one i received was not machined very well. It will make for a nice paperweight, but for $30 i am not complaining :)

60v/29a is good a power level that will probably last a long time on the right gears. I also think disabling the 'block time' if possible on the infineon will stretch out the life of the motor! the initial torque when you hit the throttle is too strong. Geared motors do not need that extra burst of power; their torque band is very long.

Here is a thread on the 'block time' setting.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 75&start=0

Also the 'current damping' setting may be of some help.

I am going to experiment with these settings when i get my infineon programming cable and post the results.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Apr 05 2011 4:58pm

Well, the ammo box is almost ready. The mounting is there, but we are waiting for the weather to improve to give it a proper paint job.

Image

Image

Fits 20ah of 10S lipo snugly with room to spare. Ammo box is not my dream box for sure, but it beats whatever i could hobble together.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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gensem   100 kW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by gensem » Apr 06 2011 1:10am

I sense your fixing mechanism is a little weak.
I already dropped a battery at the street from my other bike back rack thinking it was rock solid.
Justin we really appreciate what you did!

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by neptronix » Apr 06 2011 1:12am

There is a strong steel platform below ( difficult to see ) that holds all the weight of the ammo box :)

the mount at the top is to prevent side to side motion only.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

Post by Racer_X » Apr 06 2011 1:23am

Can you post some pics of that steel platform your talking about? By the way I subscribed to this thread to keep updated on your progress, I think one of my next builds will be with a geared MAC or BMC motor. Nice job so far, your going to love it! Weight distribution and handling improves greatly when you have the batteries in the frame.
Cannondale F8 MTB, 9c 9x7, Regen,ThreeSpeed Cruise. with torque plates. 12s3p or 18s2p depending on mood.Maxxis Holy Roller in the summer and Schwalbe Ice Spiker in winter.
Backup bike Schwinn Heavy Duti Beach Cruiser, 9c 9x7 front Regen,ThreeSpeed Cruise. with clamping dropouts, Maxxis Holy Roller in the summer and Schwalbe Ice Spiker in winter.

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