"Strong" Build. pic heavy.

Brentis · Dec 15, 2011

Started with this.

Strong GT S top class e bike my left nut.

Bought it used locally for $400. originally sold from Canadian Tire for 800-1000.
More than I wanted to pay, but I could not make/have made a frame like this for less. So I splurged.
He had new batteries put in to sell it, so now I have a new 30lbs lead weight.

I plan for this build to be a fast street bike. :wink:

Doesn't look a race bike yet.

Strong. 20's mounted. Looks like a race bike to me..JPG

That's a better stance. :mrgreen:

Now with some power. a123 pack.
Just a pic. though.
Strong demands Lipo. :twisted:

Dropouts are massive. 175mm wide without wheel installed.

View attachment 5

Being steel the swingarm can be squeezed, stretched, welded. Beautiful.

All steel, flat, 10mm 175mm wide dropouts. Lovely..JPG

Factory torque arms/wire protection.

This is the original motivator.
Brushed 36v 500w peak.
Only 16lbs. laced in rim with tire, screw-on brake, 7spd freewheel.
Pretty light actually.

Since "Ghetto" donated it's motivation.

The Motor Crystalyte HX 3540 mounted in 20 inch wheel..JPG

I may try fitting it on the Miyata. single speed lady bike. Options.

The future includes
Fork/shock upgrade.
Cycle Analyst
Lipo @ 88.8v 40amps to start. I am looking for an honest 60+kmh.
according to the simulator I am looking @ 66kmh. Perfect.
Maybe real brakes on this build. :wink:

Lots more to come
Stay tuned...

spinningmagnets · Dec 15, 2011

This isn't a common shape of frame, but I like it a lot. Regardless of battery chemistry, that is a great place to put the weight. It seems that male bicyclists in the USA still do not want uni-gender frames, and this seems to be a good compromise that allows a low top-bar for a comfortable stand-over height, while still "looking" as strong as traditional male frames.

edit: Nice upgrade on the gas shock, I hear they are a big improvement (though pricey)

Gordo · Dec 15, 2011

+1

I was just thinking the same thoughts. Practical, has (HAD) disc brakes and strong layout, with a good 48V battery and a 1KW frock, off we go with a simple first build for anyone.

Philistine · Dec 15, 2011

That is an awesome frame to work with, so many options. You will be able to fit a stack of lipo into that cross bar area.

biohazardman · Dec 15, 2011

I like the frame as well nice find. Looks like a dream for an RC build with that 20 inch wheel in there

dogman dan · Dec 16, 2011

Perfect frame really. Just bolt or weld angle iron to the dropouts, and convert it to a pinch style dropout. screw the factory torque arms. It should corner really smooth with the battery there, possibly a tad low, but definetly carried good in the center.

Here's my 1/4 thick 1" x 1" angle pinchers.

Ykick · Dec 16, 2011

Looks like a great frame! Perhaps upgrade the suspension fork/shock but it looks like a great place to stash Lipo or whatever chemistry you choose.

Brentis · Dec 16, 2011

Thanks Guys.

This frame is what sold me. Components can be upgraded simply enough.
Unless you can weld, attaining this bike as a rolling chassis is a great find.
I only have basic hand/bike tools and almost no room for my bikes, let alone, Proper shop tools.
Bonus :wink:

dogman said:
Perfect frame really. Just bolt or weld angle iron to the dropouts, and convert it to a pinch style dropout. screw the factory torque arms. It should corner really smooth with the battery there, possibly a tad low, but definetly carried good in the center.

Here's my 1/4 thick 1" x 1" angle pinchers. View attachment 8

My thoughts exactly :mrgreen:

I have been inspired by your set-up for sometime now, Dogman.

I may drill and bolt up a couple pcs of angle. I don't weld.Yet :wink:
If I can save up my pennies/patience,
I would really like to epoxy or weld up a proper pinch set-up to the inside of the swingarm.
Making just about any motor compatible.
The caliper mount needs to move way in/disc way out to be compatible w/HS3540.
Maybe incorp. onto pinch dropout.
Lots of room. 20mm Min. Would give clean look on the outside. :wink:
I want to keep as manufactured a look as possible.
Ignore bad camera angle. Looks like the swingarm is pinched, but nuts are finger tight.

20mm room for inside clamping dropouts.1.JPG

Cut off the wheel lock. Paint. Should look good.

dogman said:
...screw the factory torque arms. ...

Yeah. the tang on the right is the anti-torque device.
To small for the 10mm flat C-lyte. :roll:

An opportunity. :!:

What's wrong here? :roll:

Can't believe I didn't notice earlier.

Rear shock. Installed upside down.Duh.1.JPG

spinningmagnets said:
This isn't a common shape of frame, but I like it a lot. Regardless of battery chemistry, that is a great place to put the weight. It seems that male bicyclists in the USA still do not want uni-gender frames, and this seems to be a good compromise that allows a low top-bar for a comfortable stand-over height, while still "looking" as strong as traditional male frames.

edit: Nice upgrade on the gas shock, I hear they are a big improvement (though pricey)

If the zoom fork is a tell. This shock is nothing special.
Both came standard.
Both will eventually be upgraded.
Interesting,I never considered this bike unisex.

Since I don't wear a dress, and mount like cowboy, I was blind to it. :lol:

A few more pics.

Could probably be mod. for 16s Life4po. Cycle Analyst eventually.1.JPG

Using a dusty exc.bike as a bike stand. Dont be fooled by random bike parts in photos ; ).1.JPG

Stay tuned...

Brentis · Dec 16, 2011

A few more pics/comments.

View attachment 1

Gutted of old spring contact power transfer..JPG

30lbs. o' Lead. 18 x 4.5 x 6 approx. intenal..JPG

Ignore measurement from pic.
Internal space is 18"L x 4"+w x 3.5" deep.
I am planning to reuse the battery case.
Modifying it to open, for monitoring purposes.
Hope to fit 24s 2p. Lipo. 8ah format would be sweet.
Time to skim hobby king for measurements. :wink:
See what combo I can come up with.

Stay tuned...

spinningmagnets · Dec 16, 2011

I don't want to sound like I'm being picky about a great frame, I just want to take this opportunity to point out some things I think will be useful if someone wants to weld up something similar.

Some frames have the pivot for the rear suspension arm ON the rear sus arm, and some have it on the main frame. By having it on the rear-sus arm, chain stretch and derailler cycling is reduced when the rear-sus arm cycles during compressions. As another option, if the pivot is on the main frame, it opens up the option for a BB_drive, and giving the motor some gears (at least two, and 3 is better) dramatically reduces motor+controller heat, and also spreads out the motors performance envelope across a wider range of speeds.

Another minor frame-choice variation is the rear-sus arm that is shaped like an "on its side" letter C, with no lower chain stay. A chain doesn't need to be broken or re-linked to take it off or on, plus...the lack of a lower chain stay also means its easier to experiment with a variety of non-hub solutions.

Concerning the two top bars, I like the shape because it allows a battery cradle that loads and unloads from the top, A minor variation that I want to suggest is a longer head tube to give that joint better strength, if the head tube was two inches longer, the two top bars could be two inches higher, and I would go so far as to suggest using ractangular tube for the two top bars rather than the common round tube. That would be just as strong, and slightly thinner while allowing the same width of battery pack.

Either way, I am glad to see frames like this being produced, and I will point to them as examples that have specific benefits that should be more appreciated...

joe tomten · Dec 17, 2011

I do in fact want to weld something together, and my eye is on a 20 or 24" wheel, suspended longtail thing.

This is a great find, and the dual tube battery carriage and x-frame support structure makes a whole lot of sense.

Been collecting a few craigslist steel frames to start practicing on. But the whole suspension situation is a little overwhelming to jump into without a physical model on hand to relate to.

That along with the desire to do something w/regards to a jig set up that would help me keep the whole thing under control during setup and brazing.

nicobie · Dec 17, 2011

I wonder where a guy could find one of those?

Brentis · Dec 17, 2011

nicobie said:
I wonder where a guy could find one of those?

This was a craigslist special.
Hunt all the local sources.
Eccentric LBS's, hock/pawn shops, flea markets, etc.
The Strong is at least 4 years old, the tech. even older :roll:

I believe I found a frame like this years ago @ the LBS, marketed as a Powabyke.
Looks like modern Powabyke's are a little different set-up though.

I am fortunate that in my area, there is more money than brains.
Lot's of examples, of year old unattended/dead batt. bikes and scooters.
Classifieds are littered with them.
Be patient,hunt, then jump when you find a good one.

Good luck.

joe tomten said:
I do in fact want to weld something together, and my eye is on a 20 or 24" wheel, suspended longtail thing.

This is a great find, and the dual tube battery carriage and x-frame support structure makes a whole lot of sense.

Been collecting a few craigslist steel frames to start practicing on. But the whole suspension situation is a little overwhelming to jump into without a physical model on hand to relate to.

That along with the desire to do something w/regards to a jig set up that would help me keep the whole thing under control during setup and brazing.

spinningmagnets said:
I don't want to sound like I'm being picky about a great frame, I just want to take this opportunity to point out some things I think will be useful if someone wants to weld up something similar.

Some frames have the pivot for the rear suspension arm ON the rear sus arm, and some have it on the main frame. By having it on the rear-sus arm, chain stretch and derailler cycling is reduced when the rear-sus arm cycles during compressions. As another option, if the pivot is on the main frame, it opens up the option for a BB_drive, and giving the motor some gears (at least two, and 3 is better) dramatically reduces motor+controller heat, and also spreads out the motors performance envelope across a wider range of speeds.

Another minor frame-choice variation is the rear-sus arm that is shaped like an "on its side" letter C, with no lower chain stay. A chain doesn't need to be broken or re-linked to take it off or on, plus...the lack of a lower chain stay also means its easier to experiment with a variety of non-hub solutions.

Concerning the two top bars, I like the shape because it allows a battery cradle that loads and unloads from the top, A minor variation that I want to suggest is a longer head tube to give that joint better strength, if the head tube was two inches longer, the two top bars could be two inches higher, and I would go so far as to suggest using ractangular tube for the two top bars rather than the common round tube. That would be just as strong, and slightly thinner while allowing the same width of battery pack.

Either way, I am glad to see frames like this being produced, and I will point to them as examples that have specific benefits that should be more appreciated...

P.S.
As I tear down and rebuild Strong. I will take lots of pics and measurements.
As some may like to weld something similar up.

Brentis · Dec 17, 2011

A few more updates...

Look @ that stance. Chopper style?
Bolt up a small bar/arm where the shock was, and you have a Lowriding Hardtail :?:

The other side

Anyone have real world experience with this?
Research doesn't find much.

In a flurry of parts removal, I cut the cable to the rear derailer. :roll:

Though I use 1 of 7spds, 11 tooth.
I'm gonna need that for easy chain line adjustment. D'OH

Maybe inside pinch bolt with integrated derailer mount.

Actually quite nice. Spicy Cock Soup :lol:

Stay tuned...

Hobbit · Dec 17, 2011

A builder of e-bikes AND a lover of spicy cock soup!!!!!!

Brentis....are you married? :oops:

Brentis · Dec 17, 2011

Sorry Hobbit.
I share my spicy cock with another.

Looks like someones hungry :lol:

Seriously though,

I love her. We are engaged.
She picks me up when I am down.
Supports me in every way.
I use the kitchen as a bike shop.
If that's not love, I don't know what is. :mrgreen:

I just love Chinglish. Other miscommunications.
I can be easily amused.

That is the best example I have found yet.
Come on.
If you are going to export to a foreign country....
Unless this is only made of male chickens. :roll:

That is a mighty bird on the packet.

mushymelon · Dec 18, 2011

Great start Brentis. I've got mine stripped down and taking measurements. Two 6s lipos fit perfect side by side in the frame, two high possibly three high under the seat. Im thinking 24s3p. Every time i read the lipo threads, I get a little overwhelmed. I hope the Zephyr is finished soon.

Im thinking of modifying the front of the frame where the steer tube is to accommodate for dh triple crown forks. looks may improve too.

Kitchen workshop thats great, my shop is freezing right now.

This is great inspiration, should be fun to see how these Stong builds turn out.

Brentis · Dec 18, 2011

mushymelon said:
Great start Brentis. I've got mine stripped down and taking measurements. Two 6s lipos fit perfect side by side in the frame, two high possibly three high under the seat. Im thinking 24s3p. Every time i read the lipo threads, I get a little overwhelmed. I hope the Zephyr is finished soon.

Im thinking of modifying the front of the frame where the steer tube is to accommodate for dh triple crown forks. looks may improve too.

Kitchen workshop thats great, my shop is freezing right now.

This is great inspiration, should be fun to see how these Stong builds turn out.

Thanks Mushy.

Apologies for misleading you on measurements earlier. :roll:

I don't know where I came up with 210mm dropouts.
Our communication about the Strong frame, really got the ball rolling for me.
I have had this bike sitting around since May. Only rode it a couple of times.
"Ghetto" was so much more fun.
So "Rat Scoot" will stay as is for now,
and I will combine "Ghetto" with "Strong" as a winter project.
I really like how it looks/ feels.
Nice cockpit for my 5'9" 200lb mass.

LiPo can be daunting. Read all the, for noob links. Then read them again.
I still am apprehensive, but willing to learn.
You just cant beat the size and power of LiPo.

In addition to the Zephyr,
Consider Method's boards.
http://www.methtek.com/2011/11/12/lvchvcparallel-boards-10/

Or, I'm considering
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10952__Cell_Log_8M_Cell_Voltage_Monitor_2_8S_Lipo.html
1 for each pack. Easy constant monitoring.
Options.

I really hoped to reuse the stock battery box, but am having a hard time getting more than 24s1p in it as is.
Likely have to build a battery box of my own, to take advantage of the open battery cage.

I plan my first upgrade to be a proper fork.
Dual crown DH, if it'll fit. I have yet to remove mine for measure.
No more speculation. :roll:

Will a 1 1/8" fork work, what modification do you think we need?
I will stay tuned to your build to see what you come up with.

Best of luck.

Stay tuned....

Brentis · Dec 18, 2011

For those following this build, thinking they would like to try and weld up something similar.
Check out this build thread.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27859

Beautiful work.
Similar concept as Strong, but looks even stronger.
Top job Tri-lobe.

Brentis · Dec 21, 2011

Some more pics for consideration.

swingarm pivot. quarter inch thick tang's.JPG

2 1/2" across, 1/4" tangs.
Is this sufficiently strong for 20lbs wheel @60kmh?
Lateral strength?
I guess I'll find out :roll:

Bottom bracket is a part of the swingarm.
Should have minimal chain growth, if I'm not mistaken.
With the horizontal dropouts I should be able to run a single speed.
No derailer. Simple. The way I like it. :mrgreen:

Could have been alot stronger.
Damn that front derailer.

Plenty of room for a 3inch rear tire..JPG

Would love to run a proper Moped tire.
Pirelli ML75 16x 2.75" should fit.

More to come...

Brentis · Dec 22, 2011

More pics of the dirty Pivot area.
View attachment 2

6" between front of triangle and the tire.
RC :?:

Lots of options.
I received a PM from a member asking to buy the unknown brushed geared hub.
Hub only. I have other plans for it
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34819
He has been searching the classifieds for two years.
Currently has 3 frames. Wants low mileage motors :wink:
He has paid as little as $150cdn for a toast battery example.
Great deal. We are lucky both being in southern ontario.
Lots of used Ebike choices.
This model offers the most upgrade potential.
Very Noob friendly dropouts.
I want 1 more roller, to build a pair. :mrgreen:

Nice to ride with someone on similar paced machines.
Anyways I have competition now.

heathyoung · Dec 22, 2011

Pleanty of room for a controller at least!

Brentis · Dec 23, 2011

More Pics..

The Battery case can handle 16s4p a123 cyl.
Unfortunately I have 16s5p. D'oh.
Custom battery box for me.

What you see, is what you get.
No stats or info. :roll:

Installed shock into proper postion2.JPG

Installed shock into proper postion3.JPG

Hope using it upside down didn't damage it.

Lots of tread left.

One to many burnouts. :mrgreen:

90mm. Designed for cargo bike use.
I'm comfortable with this and regen. upto 60kmh.

Brentis · Dec 23, 2011

A couple more...

I will use the drum as long as I retain the Zoom fork.
I will upgrade to hydros with Fork.
This model of fork is surprisingly thick.
The standard anti torque device, wraps around the fork then captures the brake arm,

Sturmey Archer brake arm anti torque device..JPG

Sturmey Archer brake arm anti torque device.2.JPG

Much to small in diameter for this fork.

Considering I'm more Red Green than Mike Holmes. Eh :wink:
Do you think a piece of wood between brake arm and fork, then a quality hose clamp will hold?

monkeychops · Jan 2, 2012

I've got a similar bike which I'm slowly upgrading.
I'd be interested to know what kind of torque plate / torque arm you use and whether you re-use the rear disc brake.
Also wondering where I can get a 16s4p a123 battery if it would fit inside the stock battery case...

"Strong" Build. pic heavy.

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