Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525 + HD video

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Timma2500   1 kW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » Apr 26 2012 10:37am

Some progress...
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CA turned up, thanks Jay!
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Battery cover made, screwed on directly with 4 x M5 titanium screws. I'll be charging the batteries in bike this time so no need for a QR.
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New seat, WTB V Speed. Same as my last bike had. My current seat cains my ass after a few kms and i end up limping the next day lol.
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Placement for the CA in-frame. I'll do some cutouts for the display and buttons. It'll take some getting used to, looking at it at a 90deg angle but i only want to use it as a fuel gauge, mostly when stopping to let the HT cool down so it'll be fine.

Spokes are on the way from Ebikes.ca so it'll be wheel building time again soon, i just rebuilt Mel's BigHit's front wheel lastnight, converting it to 24" to match the rear.

SnOwy - female on the bike side makes sense, good thinking. Are these plugs able to be screwed down to a flat surface?
Yeah i think i'll go for a 37pin as well. Why do the battery medics do that, have you figured out why?
Haha yeah i'd love to copy Tench's setup, if he reveals exactly how he did it i may try to copy it. Maybe...

Paul :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by sn0wchyld » Apr 26 2012 11:50am

Timma2500 wrote:Some progress...
005.JPG
CA turned up, thanks Jay!
003.JPG
Battery cover made, screwed on directly with 4 x M5 titanium screws. I'll be charging the batteries in bike this time so no need for a QR.
009.JPG
New seat, WTB V Speed. Same as my last bike had. My current seat cains my ass after a few kms and i end up limping the next day lol.
010.JPG
Placement for the CA in-frame. I'll do some cutouts for the display and buttons. It'll take some getting used to, looking at it at a 90deg angle but i only want to use it as a fuel gauge, mostly when stopping to let the HT cool down so it'll be fine.

Spokes are on the way from Ebikes.ca so it'll be wheel building time again soon, i just rebuilt Mel's BigHit's front wheel lastnight, converting it to 24" to match the rear.

SnOwy - female on the bike side makes sense, good thinking. Are these plugs able to be screwed down to a flat surface?
Yeah i think i'll go for a 37pin as well. Why do the battery medics do that, have you figured out why?
Haha yeah i'd love to copy Tench's setup, if he reveals exactly how he did it i may try to copy it. Maybe...

Paul :D
yea mate m3 is the usual sizing i think. they can be a bit of a pita to get a good close fit, as you've only got a mm or less tolerance if you want the screwed down piece to be 100% flush. Mines just mounted in a pvc case so its kinda crude. you can make a basic cap for it by buying another male plug and cutting the pins off the back, and sealing it up with some silicone or similar.

I'm guessing the way trench did it was with 2 blocks of plastic, with the internals gouged out to fit the wires/plugs etc, before the two halves were screwed or glued together to form one piece, with all the connections housed internally. damn it makes me want to buy a mill.

not sure yet on the bm's. I've got an idea that might reduce the problem, though I need to test it before I know if it'll work at all. It would basically mean you'd use unmodified BM's (less drain current) but in balance mode, so although they take a while to balance a pack, you could set them to start from 3.9 or 4v during a bulk charge, which should give 'em enough time to balance the pack (well enough atleast). I'll let you know how it goes.

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » Apr 30 2012 10:13am

A quicky update:
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I ended up getting some 13ga Sapim spokes through Justin @ Ebikes.ca. The HT's oem holes are waaaay too large for 13ga so a quick zip with the drill and a 3mm drill bit sorted that.
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One laced wheel. My first hub motor lace-up, bitch of a job but got there in the end :D Just gotta do some final trueing and tensioning and it'll be good to go.
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Next jobs: make a start on the torque arms, cut a hole in the frame / make internal mount for the CA, start on wiring...
sn0wchyld wrote:yea mate m3 is the usual sizing i think. they can be a bit of a pita to get a good close fit, as you've only got a mm or less tolerance if you want the screwed down piece to be 100% flush. Mines just mounted in a pvc case so its kinda crude. you can make a basic cap for it by buying another male plug and cutting the pins off the back, and sealing it up with some silicone or similar.
M3 is cool, i might have some in my RC spares stash. Tolerance will be ok, i'll muck around with it till i get it right... The cap sounds like a good idea, i'll try that :wink:
sn0wchyld wrote:I'm guessing the way trench did it was with 2 blocks of plastic, with the internals gouged out to fit the wires/plugs etc, before the two halves were screwed or glued together to form one piece, with all the connections housed internally. damn it makes me want to buy a mill.
Yeah that sounds about right, probably easier if you've got a mill... one day!
sn0wchyld wrote:not sure yet on the bm's. I've got an idea that might reduce the problem, though I need to test it before I know if it'll work at all. It would basically mean you'd use unmodified BM's (less drain current) but in balance mode, so although they take a while to balance a pack, you could set them to start from 3.9 or 4v during a bulk charge, which should give 'em enough time to balance the pack (well enough atleast). I'll let you know how it goes.
What do you mean by unmodified BM's? Are your's modded?


Paul :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by sn0wchyld » Apr 30 2012 10:30am

Timma2500 wrote:A quicky update:
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I ended up getting some 13ga Sapim spokes through Justin @ Ebikes.ca. The HT's oem holes are waaaay too large for 13ga so a quick zip with the drill and a 3mm drill bit sorted that.
014.JPG
One laced wheel. My first hub motor lace-up, bitch of a job but got there in the end :D Just gotta do some final trueing and tensioning and it'll be good to go.
007.JPG
009.JPG
Next jobs: make a start on the torque arms, cut a hole in the frame / make internal mount for the CA, start on wiring...
sn0wchyld wrote:yea mate m3 is the usual sizing i think. they can be a bit of a pita to get a good close fit, as you've only got a mm or less tolerance if you want the screwed down piece to be 100% flush. Mines just mounted in a pvc case so its kinda crude. you can make a basic cap for it by buying another male plug and cutting the pins off the back, and sealing it up with some silicone or similar.
M3 is cool, i might have some in my RC spares stash. Tolerance will be ok, i'll muck around with it till i get it right... The cap sounds like a good idea, i'll try that :wink:
sn0wchyld wrote:I'm guessing the way trench did it was with 2 blocks of plastic, with the internals gouged out to fit the wires/plugs etc, before the two halves were screwed or glued together to form one piece, with all the connections housed internally. damn it makes me want to buy a mill.
Yeah that sounds about right, probably easier if you've got a mill... one day!
sn0wchyld wrote:not sure yet on the bm's. I've got an idea that might reduce the problem, though I need to test it before I know if it'll work at all. It would basically mean you'd use unmodified BM's (less drain current) but in balance mode, so although they take a while to balance a pack, you could set them to start from 3.9 or 4v during a bulk charge, which should give 'em enough time to balance the pack (well enough atleast). I'll let you know how it goes.
What do you mean by unmodified BM's? Are your's modded?


Paul :D
lookin very shmick mate! And I've just noticed that you've got removable dropouts on that thing... that'll give you some great options for custom ones! are you going to extend the wheelbase a bit?

I modded my BM's for higher discharge current, basically adding a 6ish ohm resistor in parallel with the ones that are already there. The main problem is they now really require a fan blowing on 'em to keep em from getting too hot (the resistors can just handle it ok, but the little fets they use get REALLY hot without some air blowing on them). So I want to wire 'em up in such a way that I can use the balance mode, and have each 6s string stay in balance with its neighbours. that way I can leave them unmodded, and have them enter 'balance mode' at around 4v or so.

I found recently too that tolerance can be overcome by large amounts of hot glue. I just riged up a 5ah booster pack for my handlebars, best part is its 1 plug to parallel the new 24s 5ah pack with my standard 10ah pack, both at the discharge leads and at the cell level. easy 50+km maniac riding range now!

What happened to that ple80 that you bought a while back? is that on a bike yet? I'm already thinking of other options for my mid drive build that'd make mine kinda useless, but at $300 im determined to at least use it once before I get rid of it...

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 05 2012 7:52pm

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CA installed. I was hoping to mount it without screws showing but in the end i got lazy and took the easy way out... I might tidy up the install and button holes later before getting the frame powdercoated.

Next job will be to externally mount the DB37 plug and start on the pinch bolt torque arms.
sn0wchyld wrote:lookin very shmick mate! And I've just noticed that you've got removable dropouts on that thing... that'll give you some great options for custom ones! are you going to extend the wheelbase a bit?
Ta mate! Yeah its got bolt on dropouts but i'll be keeping them on there, can't be bothered to make complete new ones at the moment! I've got an idea for torque arms that will slip in to the dropouts so i'll work with that for now. Nah i won't be extending the wheelbase any more than i have with the front frame extension, that lengthened it by around 80mm which will be heaps.
sn0wchyld wrote:I modded my BM's for higher discharge current, basically adding a 6ish ohm resistor in parallel with the ones that are already there. The main problem is they now really require a fan blowing on 'em to keep em from getting too hot (the resistors can just handle it ok, but the little fets they use get REALLY hot without some air blowing on them). So I want to wire 'em up in such a way that I can use the balance mode, and have each 6s string stay in balance with its neighbours. that way I can leave them unmodded, and have them enter 'balance mode' at around 4v or so.
Were they getting that hot before you modified them? What mode are they in before 4v? Do you know how many cells each can handle?
sn0wchyld wrote:I found recently too that tolerance can be overcome by large amounts of hot glue. I just riged up a 5ah booster pack for my handlebars, best part is its 1 plug to parallel the new 24s 5ah pack with my standard 10ah pack, both at the discharge leads and at the cell level. easy 50+km maniac riding range now!
Haha, hot glue to the rescue! Awsome, do you just plug the booster pack in through your DB plug? Holy crap, do you get 50km+ out of your 15ah pack?!!!!
sn0wchyld wrote:What happened to that ple80 that you bought a while back? is that on a bike yet? I'm already thinking of other options for my mid drive build that'd make mine kinda useless, but at $300 im determined to at least use it once before I get rid of it...
Still got the PLE, guna use it with an RC CA, an old unused HV140 and 80-100 i've got lying around. Their going into the Norco i built a few yrs ago. It'll cop a new frame to house it all.

Yeah you may as well use the gearbox, you paid good coin for it and their strong 'boxes so why not use it?!!! :wink:
Get a cheap 80-100, run 7kw through it, gear it appropriately and have a wheelie popping, hill climbing monster! :mrgreen:


Paul :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Kepler » May 06 2012 6:14am

Interesting approach with mounting the CA. Looks like it wont be too bad to read. Considering how narrow the frame is, I think the CA mount is a reasonable compromise. Some thick double sided tape over the buttons and some disc buttons on top should do the trick for changing screens. As usual, very nice 8)
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 06 2012 9:39am

Cheers Kepler :)

Yeah it was a compromise, the new wide screen CA's are quite long - 128mmish but i wanted the frame to be fairly narrow - 100mm externally so it was always going to have to be mounted like this. Not preferable but still readable...

What do you mean by disc buttons? I've been trying to figure out what to do to tidy up the buttons....


Paul :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Kepler » May 07 2012 1:46am

Actually better to use a thin strip of double sided tape across the buttons on the CA and then re fit it. Next cut out some 2 or 3mm thick discs to fit in the holes and stick to the double sided tape. You now have some extended buttons for your CA :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Kepler » May 07 2012 1:50am

Actually better to use a thin strip of double sided tape across the buttons on the CA and then re fit it. Next cut out some 2 or 3mm thick discs to fit in the holes and stick to the double sided tape. You now have some extended buttons for your CA :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Ossielocal » May 07 2012 3:53am

Now thats a very nice Build .

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by dingoEsride » May 07 2012 6:12am

Ossielocal wrote:Now thats a very nice Build .
Yeah Paul never fails to impress
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 07 2012 11:17am

Kepler wrote:Actually better to use a thin strip of double sided tape across the buttons on the CA and then re fit it. Next cut out some 2 or 3mm thick discs to fit in the holes and stick to the double sided tape. You now have some extended buttons for your CA
I like that idea, i might make the buttons from some 3mm carbon fibre to sit flush with the 3mm aluminium frame sheet. Thanks Kepler! :)

Thanks Ossielocal, i like your Trance build, very tidy with the triangle box.

Cheers Mark, i'm looking forward to seeing the Specialized up n running again soon :wink:

Update: I've ordered the Battery Medics and some 5s harnesses, 2 medics should do the trick for a 20s 10ah pack i think? Anyone?

Out of curiosity I weighed the bike tonight, it came in at about 32.7kg. Allowing say 1.3kg for torque arms, powder coating, small lightweight chain device and a bit of wiring, it should end up around the 34kg mark.
Considering i originally optimistically aimed for 30kg, i'm happy with that :)

Now gotta figure out how to charge and balance the bugger!

Paul :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Hyena » May 07 2012 10:39pm

Nice one mate, looking shmick!
Bolts to hold the CA in though ? You butcher :P
I would have used urethane or silicon or something to stick it on from the inside. Luck the rest of the build is sexy :mrgreen:
Timma2500 wrote:Update: I've ordered the Battery Medics and some 5s harnesses, 2 medics should do the trick for a 20s 10ah pack i think? Anyone?
Fingers crossed you get some good ones, I ordered 5 from HK recently and only 1 was ok, the other 4 were inaccurate as shit.
With 2 medics you can balance half your pack at a time.
Personally if you want a good balance charging solution I'd get a 10S hobby charger and split your packs into 2 10S halves and parallel charge them.
If you want to do an all in one balance connector I recommend centronics over DB25 - they're easier to plug and unplug and it's less likely you'll short pins
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by sn0wchyld » May 08 2012 10:20am

Hyena wrote:Nice one mate, looking shmick!
Bolts to hold the CA in though ? You butcher :P
I would have used urethane or silicon or something to stick it on from the inside. Luck the rest of the build is sexy :mrgreen:
Timma2500 wrote:Update: I've ordered the Battery Medics and some 5s harnesses, 2 medics should do the trick for a 20s 10ah pack i think? Anyone?
Fingers crossed you get some good ones, I ordered 5 from HK recently and only 1 was ok, the other 4 were inaccurate as shit.
With 2 medics you can balance half your pack at a time.
Personally if you want a good balance charging solution I'd get a 10S hobby charger and split your packs into 2 10S halves and parallel charge them.
If you want to do an all in one balance connector I recommend centronics over DB25 - they're easier to plug and unplug and it's less likely you'll short pins
its an utter pain in the ass finding good ones these days. I just bought a handfull of the 'blue case' ones off ebay, they seem very accurate, with the same 'red board' layout and components (ie larger fets than the yellow/green ones seem to have), but with one very major issue... some genius in the chinese engineering department thought it'd be a good idea to add a 'safety feature' where by the BM's wont go in to balance or discharge mode unless ALL cells are above the set balance/discharge voltage. So you cant plug 'em all in at the start of a charge and hit 'discharge' and leave 'em to do their thing... you need to wait until all the cells in that string are above the 4.1v or whatever you're balancing too, and only then can they be switched on!! WTF!?!?!?! if only I knew how to reprogram these Fing things they'd be perfect!

good call on the centronics too! I always figured they were pin types too, given the little holes in the female side...

Another option for you timma if you have the $... get two cellpro 10x or 10xp's... they can be put in sieries, then (if you get 2 10xp's) you've got a 1200W 20s balance charger :twisted: :twisted: !! I'm thinking of getting a 2nd powerlab8 once I've got a mid drive sorted since it'll probably be running on ~12-16s, then I'll have 2800W of balance charging POWER! :P

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 09 2012 11:05am

Chain device finished. 3mm carbon fibre backing plate, modified Paul's Chain Keeper and DMR roller. That chain aint going nowhere! :lol:
And no ebike build is complete without some lightening hole drilling :wink: I still wana do a bit more relieving of the Chain Keeper to sit closer to the Bash guard though.
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Jay: Haha, yesss i'm a rough bastard sometimes and the CA installation was one of those times lol. I might plug weld the holes later and take your advice with the silicon :wink: How do Stealth hold theirs in?
Yeah at $14ea for the medics, i figured it'd be worth a shot. Wow 1 out of 5 is bad luck, did you order more or just give 'em a miss?
Have you got any further on the DiamondBack commuter build lately? We're overdue for an update :P

I've got two Hyperion 12s chargers i could use, but i'm not sure how i can use them to charge half a pack each while keeping them in the bike... Argh, this is starting to be the tooo hard basket! :roll: Are the DB plugs really that bad?

SnOwy: Do you mean you need to wait till all the cells are above 4.1v each before they will start balancing? If so, thats f*cking stupid!
Yeah righteo, i'll have a look around for these whiz bang centronics plugs....
Ouch! Those Cellpros look the goods but 2 of them starts to get expensive... Are they what you use? Hmm 2800w of charging power is tempting though! :mrgreen:
Can you network both chargers together to charge 20s or do you charge each 10s half separately?

God i hate the electronics side of these things, give me fabricating / mechanical work any day! :roll: :lol:

Paul :D
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Hyena » May 09 2012 10:53pm

Timma2500 wrote: I might plug weld the holes later and take your advice with the silicon :wink: How do Stealth hold theirs in?
I didn't get the CA in mine as I use a large screen external one but the stick on CF on aluminium inserts are held on with black stuff that I assume is urethane or similar. I've used sikaflex in days done by for car bodykit parts and found it good.
Yeah at $14ea for the medics, i figured it'd be worth a shot. Wow 1 out of 5 is bad luck, did you order more or just give 'em a miss?
Nah I decided to give HK the arse after that. As snowchyld said the blue ones do seem to be a bit better, I have one of those and it seems to be accurate so I've ordered another and if it's OK too then I'll get more of those. By time time you get a dud and have to buy another and hope it's accurate you're actually better off buying an entry level HK charger for $30!

If you've got a hyperion though then there's little point in using the medic. I may have missed it earlier but what are you using for LVC protection ?
Have you got any further on the DiamondBack commuter build lately? We're overdue for an update :P
It's still sitting at the back of my garage sad and neglected. I was pumped to get it up and rolling then got swamped with a heap of other stuff and haven't had time yet. I really need to sort out some torque plates first as the existing drops won't take the sort of power I plan to put through it.
I'm still tempted to fit a mac for maximum stealth but I think a larger DD hub will win out to make it the best all rounder. Probably just a 9C style DD though rather than the heavier H35 or H40 (as much as I'd like to)
I've got two Hyperion 12s chargers i could use, but i'm not sure how i can use them to charge half a pack each while keeping them in the bike... Argh, this is starting to be the tooo hard basket! :roll: Are the DB plugs really that bad?
Ah, you have 2! What a capitalist :P
Will you be running both from the one beefy power supply or 2 seperate ? If from the one check that they're totally isolated - if they are you charge up the pack as is. If not you just need to put a break between the 2 packs when charging (and you could just use a single charger for this purpose if you wanted)
Basically you have the 2 10S packs inside your frame sitting there independantly with the -ve from one pack going to the -ve of the controller and the +ve of the other pack going to the +ve of the controller. But then connecting the remaining -ve and +ve together you put the packs into series (20S) and the controller powers up. You can have a battery isolator or large bullet plugs or what ever on that series link so when you break it the 2 packs are indepentant for charging purposes and you can charge them up as one 10S pack. The balance pins from both packs come to a single centronics or DB25 connector. With the connector sitting there the 2 halves are not connected together but if you plug in a parallel connection plug that puts both packs together in parallel as essentially 1 large pack for connecting to your single charger.
Can you network both chargers together to charge 20s or do you charge each 10s half separately?
I think you can do that with the hyperion can't you ? Again you'd have the break the series connection between the 2 10S packs though to hook up the main power charge leads.
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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by sn0wchyld » May 10 2012 9:19am

Timma2500 wrote:Chain device finished. 3mm carbon fibre backing plate, modified Paul's Chain Keeper and DMR roller. That chain aint going nowhere! :lol:
And no ebike build is complete without some lightening hole drilling :wink: I still wana do a bit more relieving of the Chain Keeper to sit closer to the Bash guard though.
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.....................SnOwy: Do you mean you need to wait till all the cells are above 4.1v each before they will start balancing? If so, thats f*cking stupid!
Yeah righteo, i'll have a look around for these whiz bang centronics plugs....

Ouch! Those Cellpros look the goods but 2 of them starts to get expensive... Are they what you use? Hmm 2800w of charging power is tempting though! :mrgreen:
Can you network both chargers together to charge 20s or do you charge each 10s half separately?

God i hate the electronics side of these things, give me fabricating / mechanical work any day! :roll: :lol:

Paul :D
Yep, I've got a powerlab 8. I've never done it myself, but the manual has plenty on charging in series. best of all, you can select a 'master' and a 'slave' :wink: so you can controll both form one display.

and yea, if you want to 'balance' at 4.1v you need to wait to every cell is above that before it'll go. dumb as a brick!

And jay, what are you saying about breaking the connection between the 2 10s packs? you just need to put the +ve from one charger to the -ve of the next (as long as their power supplies are isolated from each other) and then do the same with the balance leads and bam! a single 20s charger, effectively. I thought the hyperions could do the same too?

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Tench » May 10 2012 12:12pm

Stealth stick the CA in with a double sided sponge tape, it worked ok for a while but one very warm day i pushed a button and it fell inside the frame :shock: so i put a strap around it made out of a section of a large zip tie and secured it with flush dome head plastic rivets.

like these;

http://www.best-b2b.com/userimg/841/851 ... ts-958.jpg

I have also put up an explanation of my series/parrallel charging setup that you mentioned a few posts back,

Here;

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=39489

Simon.
Project one http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... ilit=tench
Project Two http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=37489
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Timma2500   1 kW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 13 2012 8:58am

Hyena wrote:Will you be running both from the one beefy power supply or 2 seperate ? If from the one check that they're totally isolated - if they are you charge up the pack as is. If not you just need to put a break between the 2 packs when charging (and you could just use a single charger for this purpose if you wanted)Basically you have the 2 10S packs inside your frame sitting there independantly with the -ve from one pack going to the -ve of the controller and the +ve of the other pack going to the +ve of the controller. But then connecting the remaining -ve and +ve together you put the packs into series (20S) and the controller powers up. You can have a battery isolator or large bullet plugs or what ever on that series link so when you break it the 2 packs are indepentant for charging purposes and you can charge them up as one 10S pack. The balance pins from both packs come to a single centronics or DB25 connector. With the connector sitting there the 2 halves are not connected together but if you plug in a parallel connection plug that puts both packs together in parallel as essentially 1 large pack for connecting to your single charger.
I'll just be using the one charger. Bear with me as i'm quite tired as i try to process all this, but what your describing is similar to Simon's system isn't it?
I'm still getting my head around how this all works, i'm getting there but still not 100% with it all!!!!
Hyena wrote:Ah, you have 2! What a capitalist
:lol: sshhh, there'll be calls for a public hanging if you make it public knowledge!
Hyena wrote:It's still sitting at the back of my garage sad and neglected. I was pumped to get it up and rolling then got swamped with a heap of other stuff and haven't had time yet.
Mate, the other people don't really want their kits or 5xxx motors delivered soon, get onto it! :P
Hyena wrote:I'm still tempted to fit a mac for maximum stealth but I think a larger DD hub will win out to make it the best all rounder. Probably just a 9C style DD though rather than the heavier H35 or H40 (as much as I'd like to)
Although i'd like to see you put a H40 on it, pumping 5kw through a 9c might still make for a fun commuter :)

Hyena wrote:Nah I decided to give HK the arse after that. As snowchyld said the blue ones do seem to be a bit better, I have one of those and it seems to be accurate so I've ordered another and if it's OK too then I'll get more of those. By time time you get a dud and have to buy another and hope it's accurate you're actually better off buying an entry level HK charger for $30!If you've got a hyperion though then there's little point in using the medic. I may have missed it earlier but what are you using for LVC protection ?
Hmmm i've ordered mine off Ebay (black ones) so it sounds like mine could be a lottery too... bugger! I noticed the blue ones on Ebay were dearer than some of the black ones, i wonder if thats an indication of quality? I've got 2 of the older 12s EOS 1210i Hyperions, their not balance chargers unfortunately.
I've got some 6s balancers here i can use for the 5s split packs.

For LVC i'll just use the controller and CA. I'll set 'em for around 3.5v per cell.

Tench wrote:I have also put up an explanation of my series/parrallel charging setup that you mentioned a few posts back,Here;viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39489
Ah thankyou!!! I will try to make a copy of it but i have a few questions to ask before i dive into it, i'll ask them on the thread tho :wink:
Tench wrote:Stealth stick the CA in with a double sided sponge tape, it worked ok for a while but one very warm day i pushed a button and it fell inside the frame so i put a strap around it made out of a section of a large zip tie and secured it with flush dome head plastic rivets.
The dodgy buggers! That was my dread when i considered mounting it with double sided tape. I take it your solution hasn't let you down?

BTW, you built an absolutely brilliant bike Simon, hats off to you sir :mrgreen:


SnOwy: If i use Simon's charging / connection system, i'll be able to use my existing 12s Hyperion charger, a much cheaper option lol. Wow no balancing till all the cells are at 4.1v, i can't think of a good reason why they'd program them that way... crazy engineers! :roll:
Did you decide what your going to do with your PLE gearbox?

Paul :D
Norco Aline / carbon fibre frame mod / 12t Mac / 12fet / 23kg

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by sn0wchyld » May 13 2012 10:11am

Timma2500 wrote:........

SnOwy: If i use Simon's charging / connection system, i'll be able to use my existing 12s Hyperion charger, a much cheaper option lol. Wow no balancing till all the cells are at 4.1v, i can't think of a good reason why they'd program them that way... crazy engineers! :roll:
Did you decide what your going to do with your PLE gearbox?

Paul :D

yea mate, im gonna finish the BB drive with the ple80. Been working on it lately... latest update here.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 23#p579748
I'm not sure how long I'll use it for though. I'm thinking once its running reliably I'll transfer it to the norko, possibly with a 6374 instead of the 8085. That way I can get rid of the hub motor and hopefully have a much better offroad performer/hill climber. It also frees up the 8085 so I can use it to make a twin 8085 direct drive unit, possibly though a 2speed dogbox for the Avanti D8 :twisted:. and if that goes well, then its gonna be twin 80100's for the norko :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: . Thats a while off yet though.

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Hyena   100 GW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Hyena » May 13 2012 8:03pm

Timma2500 wrote:what your describing is similar to Simon's system isn't it?
Yep pretty much the same. I've used Andersons for the last few years for simple noob/mistake-proof connections but with higher powered setups you need to use beefier connections - like Simon has done with his custom housings. You could also use XT150s. They're not as bulky as other options and still click in together somewhat for a simple connection. If you're only bursting 5kw and not hard on it all the time you could get away with 45a andersons anyway. My daily ride has had the same 45a andersons on it for over a year and have never melted seeing peaks of 80a
Although i'd like to see you put a H40 on it, pumping 5kw through a 9c might still make for a fun commuter :) p
Yeah the H40 would be cool, no doubt. But the 9C is sufficient. It's what I've been riding for the last few years and it's never skipped a beat and has sufficient guts for mixing it up with traffic when necessary. I'm not as confident to race motor bikes but that's what hte 5404 is for :twisted:

I noticed the blue ones on Ebay were dearer than some of the black ones, i wonder if thats an indication of quality?
Hard to say, when methods spoke to one supplier they had 2 differed specced units and hte ones that were $2 more had better components but they didn't advertise that. So when the gear is coming from different suppliers you don't know if one guy is making a $1 mark up per unit and the next guy is making a $2 mark up, or if they're actually different quality units. Then you get the local sellers charging double, but I'm sure thats largely markup. I would have thought they'd all be mass produced in the same factory but apparently not. The more expensive blue ones have a seperate external discharge circuit on them which is why they're more expensive. The 5w ones would suffice if you want the cheapest.
I've got 2 of the older 12s EOS 1210i Hyperions, their not balance chargers unfortunately.
Damn, who makes a pricey RC charger that doesn't balance ?!
My very first lipo charging setup used one of those external hyperion balancers and a meanwell. It melted after a few months of use. It was the inline charging type though so was constantly bleeding away at the cells the whole time it was charging. Which is a bad idea as you don't need to balance until nearly full.
For LVC i'll just use the controller and CA. I'll set 'em for around 3.5v per cell.
That's probably a fairly safe bet. I actually don't bother with any cell level LVC on my packs. I don't take em past around 80% discharge so unless one suddenly dies it's not going to be an issue. And if it does suddenly die then it was going to anyway :P
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Timma2500   1 kW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 14 2012 11:28am

Hyena wrote:For LVC i'll just use the controller and CA. I'll set 'em for around 3.5v per cell.That's probably a fairly safe bet. I actually don't bother with any cell level LVC on my packs. I don't take em past around 80% discharge so unless one suddenly dies it's not going to be an issue. And if it does suddenly die then it was going to anyway
Oh i didn't mean down to cell level, i'll just set the CA and controller to cutout around 68 - 70v or so. Thats it, its going to go to lipo heaven if it's time is up either way :P I made the mistake with my Cyclone bike's lipo of taking it down to 95% a few times, funnily enough my 1st prebuilt 10ah pack didn't like that game and went puffo soon after... :roll: Hence the CA now to monitor the battery a little better...
Hyena wrote:Damn, who makes a pricey RC charger that doesn't balance ?!My very first lipo charging setup used one of those external hyperion balancers and a meanwell. It melted after a few months of use. It was the inline charging type though so was constantly bleeding away at the cells the whole time it was charging. Which is a bad idea as you don't need to balance until nearly full.
Tell me 'bout it! I bought them just before i found out the latest 1420i charger was coming to market... Hmmm, sounds like you worked the poor thing to death! Could you have just used it towards the end of the charge instead of all the way? Or do you mean you were charging through the balancer?
Hyena wrote:Yep pretty much the same. I've used Andersons for the last few years for simple noob/mistake-proof connections but with higher powered setups you need to use beefier connections - like Simon has done with his custom housings. You could also use XT150s. They're not as bulky as other options and still click in together somewhat for a simple connection. If you're only bursting 5kw and not hard on it all the time you could get away with 45a andersons anyway. My daily ride has had the same 45a andersons on it for over a year and have never melted seeing peaks of 80a
I must say i've never used andersons yet, they always look pretty bulky which has put me off them for use in confined spaces like my frames.
I'll ask Simon what plugs he used, they look like some sort of 5-6mm bullet maybe? I was also thinking of using my old favourite, Deans plugs, they are rated to 60a from memory. Yeah i'll be keeping it under 5kw peaks and will try to go easy on it :wink:
Hyena wrote:Yeah the H40 would be cool, no doubt. But the 9C is sufficient. It's what I've been riding for the last few years and it's never skipped a beat and has sufficient guts for mixing it up with traffic when necessary. I'm not as confident to race motor bikes but that's what hte 5404 is for :twisted:
Probably a good practical choice over the Clyte (though it pains me to say it!). Hmmm, so the 5404 is going on the Fighter??? With new spokes from what i saw on your thread!
Hyena wrote:Hard to say, when methods spoke to one supplier they had 2 differed specced units and hte ones that were $2 more had better components but they didn't advertise that. So when the gear is coming from different suppliers you don't know if one guy is making a $1 mark up per unit and the next guy is making a $2 mark up, or if they're actually different quality units. Then you get the local sellers charging double, but I'm sure thats largely markup. I would have thought they'd all be mass produced in the same factory but apparently not. The more expensive blue ones have a seperate external discharge circuit on them which is why they're more expensive. The 5w ones would suffice if you want the cheapest
The cheeky buggers, how'd you find out about the component difference?
Yeah i went cheap, real cheap, $13ea cheap lol. Its amazing looking at them all on Fleabay at how much difference there is in pricing, from $13 to $90! No doubt as you say, some are probably just marked right up.
I'll just expect the worst untill i try them and if i get lucky i'll be pleasantly surprised. If their crap, it'll serve me right for being a tightarse lol.
sn0wchyld wrote:yea mate, im gonna finish the BB drive with the ple80. Been working on it lately... latest update here.http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... p579748I'm not sure how long I'll use it for though. I'm thinking once its running reliably I'll transfer it to the norko, possibly with a 6374 instead of the 8085. That way I can get rid of the hub motor and hopefully have a much better offroad performer/hill climber. It also frees up the 8085 so I can use it to make a twin 8085 direct drive unit, possibly though a 2speed dogbox for the Avanti D8 . and if that goes well, then its gonna be twin 80100's for the norko . Thats a while off yet though.
Hey, looking good! I want to see plenty of lightening holes in those aluminium plates when its done young man :wink:
But seriously, your off to a good start. Ya just gotta watch the width with these things, really try to keep it as narrow as possible down to the mm. Do you know what cranks and BB your going to team it with? If your intending to mount the unit close-ish to the BB, you'll need to know what width you have between the crank arms eh. On my original Norco / Astro 8150 / shit cheap planetary gearbox build, i had something like 2mm clearance to my LH crank arm...

Twin 80100's! Your nuts! That'll end up with about the same power as Rodger's twin 3220 build and maybe slightly more torque. I hope you've got some hardened dangleberries between your legs to handle that beast :lol: :P You might find for off road riding, a single 80100 with a 2 spd will be more controllable. However if its for road use, go the twins and have some fun!


Build update:
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The HT is now fully vented with 27 x 10mm holes in line with the windings on the drive side. While i was at it, i sanded the edges of both covers to clean up where i'd used a few screw drivers to pry the covers off...

Paul :D
Norco Aline / carbon fibre frame mod / 12t Mac / 12fet / 23kg

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by sn0wchyld » May 14 2012 11:43pm

lookin good mate. Tidy as always.

Yea the twin 80100's will probably be rewound numbers, run on a 12 fet each or similar, for a fairly conservative ~4kw each, maybe even 3. I want something that is nearly impossible to overheat and where none of the components are stressed at all (well, as best I can). even with active cooling on my HT, i'm having to back off every 20 odd minutes of hard riding to let it cool a bit. It only takes about 2 min or so of coasting to drop it 10+deg but still... itd be nice not to worry about it at all. its the same reason I'm considering using two 6374's with the ple80 rather than the singe 8085... so I can stop trying to push things way beyond their design limits (or rather, too close to their 'chinese' limits) and enjoy better usability.

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Timma2500   1 kW

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by Timma2500 » May 27 2012 9:52am

Cheers SnOwy.

What sort of kv would you rewind the 6374's for? Yeah two of them may deal with the heat better than one 8085, it just means doubling up on controllers and a more complicated driveline. Hmmm come to think of it, if your going to go to the trouble of two motors, how about two rewound 8085s? :twisted:
I hear you having to back off every so often with the HT, i had to do the same with the Cyclone setup on my last bike and its a piss off eh :roll:


Update:

Well ive got a temporary charging and running harness ready to go:
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Charging as a 10s 20ah pack
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Running harness 20s 10ah
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Charging harness 10s 20ah
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Breakdown of the harnesses with colour coded heat shrink to reduce the chance of the dreaded accidental KFF!
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I've also made a start on a copy of Tench's brilliant charging / running plug setup. I wanted to keep the ability to balance the split 10s packs (2 x 5s each) individually if needed so the harness is setup with 12 x 5s balance plugs in total, in 6 pairs to suit 6 x 10s packs. I'll be running 4 packs for now as 20s 10ah and will buy another 2 packs later for 15ah so the harness allows for that future expansion of capacity.
The plug is a DB37, i used 36 of those pins and i've gotta say it got bloody crowded! Next job to do is the male charger side of the DB plug, i'll try to keep it a little simpler and less cluttered!

I've found a 19mm thick kitchen chopping board on Ebay that i'll chop up to use as the actual plug insert thingy. Once i get that side of it all sorted, i'll cut a reccess into the frame somewhere to house it all flush before powdercoating :wink:
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Next came the re-routing of the phase and hall wires out of the other end of the controller. This was an easy but tedious process of drilling the other end plate, installing some grommets and adding hall extension cables and 8ga phase extensions. All soldering joints are inside the controller to keep it tidy. I soldered some bullets on the end of the phase leads and will be using a centronic (?) plug for the halls.
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Phase and hall wires re-routed out the other end of the 18fet.
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The cable ties are only temporary!
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Its getting there slowy :) I'll have the wiring all done by Tuesday night then will get onto the last part of the build thats keeping me from riding it, the torque arms...
We're heading down south this coming weekend (long weekend) to go camping at this great spot that is surrounded by mountain bike tracks and we want to take the bikes so i've got some work to do this week to get it ready.


Paul :D
Norco Aline / carbon fibre frame mod / 12t Mac / 12fet / 23kg

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Re: Intense M3 + Clyte HT3525

Post by BATFINK » May 27 2012 5:51pm

Great build Timma, i am looking at modifying my own frame very soon,
here is my new thread

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=40120

I was wondering if you have anymore pictures of the actual welding work that you have done. After you cut your frame it was hard to see what you actually did with the down tube,

I saw that you made a box for the battery and welded that on but its difficult to tell if you kept the original part (bottom part of the frame that you cut off) and used that for strength? or did the battery box at 3mm thick aluminium actually replace this part, would love to know as planning on getting some work done soon.

Great build and thanks for the inspiration to improve

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