Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

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agniusm
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Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Jan 03, 2012 7:12 pm

Hi, thought i will start a thread and put some info on the build, ask questions on the build as i go along. Better bit by bit than the whole thing at once i guess. This is my first build and a lot to learn, lots to discover.
My idea is to build a cargo bike with interchangeable platform at the front, with recumbent seating, full suspension.
Here is the main parts i have purchased:
Electrics:
Motor: Clyte HS3540
Controller: china brand - noname
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BMS: LY.BMS.24S60
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Battery: 24S A123 20AH Prismatic cells
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Suspension:
Front suspension fork: RST Capa T10
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Rear shock: Cane Creek Cloud Nine
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Wheels and tires:
Front: KHE-Bikes Easy-0 BMX + Novatec - DO 41 SB hub, Maxis Hookworm tire, Maxis tube
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Rear: Alexrims DX32, Maxis Hookworm Tire, Maxis tube
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Brakes: Hydraulic front and rear Tektro Auriga Comp
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The project is gona go slow, i need to build my workshop in spring so i am trying to assemble as many loose ends as possible.
The main are:
Design a nice battery with tidy connections
Design/copy the seat
Get the rear wheel done
Chose lights, signals etc.
etc. etc. etc....

Here is almost assembled front end:
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Last edited by agniusm on Jan 29, 2012 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Battery

Post by agniusm » Jan 03, 2012 7:36 pm

I am trying to get the cell clamping plate designed, here is the arrangement the cells will be in:
Image

I want to keep all the components inside platform base, probably 70mm deep.
Here is the plate i am trying to work on, no EagleCad experience here, no time to get in to that stuff, using what i know:
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There will be tracks added to solder in BMS wires so i dont get loose conections. A guy quoted me at 28USD a piece, designed and made, i need two to go in front of each other.

Here is the seat i would like to make and use:
Image

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by parabellum » Jan 03, 2012 7:45 pm

It is the coolest looking BMS I have ever seen. Can you give more info about? Nice part choice and cargo bike with optional seats is even better.

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Jan 03, 2012 7:52 pm

parabellum wrote:It is the coolest looking BMS I have ever seen. Can you give more info about? Nice part choice and cargo bike with optional seats is even better.
Here is the spec. sheet for 100A output one:https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B56NVZ ... kzMzliZTlm
, you can find the link at the bottom of the document. 260USD a piece with LCD + shipping (TAX if applicable)

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by parabellum » Jan 03, 2012 8:10 pm

agniusm wrote:Here is the spec. sheet for 100A output one:https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B56NVZ ... kzMzliZTlm
, you can find the link at the bottom of the document. 260USD a piece with LCD + shipping (TAX if applicable)
Thanks, do you have played with it already. Do you know adjustment limitations for voltage in software? (asking because, they say it is for LiFePO, but if voltage is adjustable to 3V on LVC, to 4.2V at HVC and at least 4.1V for balance limit, it will make nice LiPo BMS as well)

Do you have your frame design already, I do not really get by now how your front fork works with front cargo platform?

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by Lock » Jan 03, 2012 8:15 pm

parabellum wrote:It is the coolest looking BMS I have ever seen. Can you give more info about? Nice part choice and cargo bike with optional seats is even better.
Looks like these folks (GuangZhou Leoyun New Energy Technology CO.,LTD):
http://www.leoyun.com/eng/index.php

Not much info on their site, but more on Alibaba:
http://gzlyxny.cn.alibaba.com/

Stuff like this:
http://gzlyxny.cn.alibaba.com/athena/al ... 73947.html
Last edited by Lock on Jan 03, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Jan 03, 2012 8:18 pm

I haven't got the BMS yet, it's in post. I have the design in my head, i am not that good with solidworks, like to play with stuff in my hand and see how it feels/looks. I will be doing a sketch when i have rear wheel assembly, seat, batteries and all electronics at hand. There is no rush for me anyway.
You should ask the supplier about lipos, i am just beginner at this stuff :D

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by mvly » Jan 04, 2012 2:01 am

I am looking for a 16s LiFePo4 BMS too. Any ideas how to get these? Do I just contact them via email and pay them via paypal?

Thanks,

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Jan 04, 2012 2:50 am

Hi, yes you just email them. Chinese want to sell their stuff :) Dont forget to bargain, its always good and healthy. Always pay with paypal, you need that protection dealing with Chinese.

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by dogman dan » Jan 04, 2012 8:36 am

FS longtail? I sure like mine. I just did the frankenbike thing, welding the rear half of a steel wallbike to a hardtail frame. There's a thread in pics on it, if you haven't seen it.
Frankenbike longtail.  Bouncing Betty..jpg
Frankenbike longtail. Bouncing Betty..jpg (115.34 KiB) Viewed 12252 times

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by Linukas » Jan 04, 2012 10:37 am

mvly wrote:I am looking for a 16s LiFePo4 BMS too. Any ideas how to get these? Do I just contact them via email and pay them via paypal?

Thanks,

Hi,
I have long talk with this BMS manufacturer, seems they make realy good thing, they can add bluetooth, but this needs big quantity order and some time, in next week I must get some samples, I'm buying regularly ev parts from china so I can offer stuff, this BMS too, for ES members...
this is other bms picture:
Image

sorry agnius for little off topic :)

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Jan 04, 2012 10:42 am

dogman wrote:FS longtail? I sure like mine. I just did the frankenbike thing, welding the rear half of a steel wallbike to a hardtail frame. There's a thread in pics on it, if you haven't seen it.
It's a different thing i would like to accomplish. Something like this:
Image
Image
only my own approach to the whole deal.

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Jan 04, 2012 10:45 am

Linukas wrote:
mvly wrote:I am looking for a 16s LiFePo4 BMS too. Any ideas how to get these? Do I just contact them via email and pay them via paypal?

Thanks,

Hi,
I have long talk with this BMS manufacturer, seems they make realy good thing, they can add bluetooth, but this needs big quantity order and some time, in next week I must get some samples, I'm buying regularly ev parts from china so I can offer stuff, this BMS too, for ES members...
this is other bms picture:


sorry agnius for little off topic :)

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Not of topic Linai, in the end you r getting this sexy thing for me :)
I think i will need a trailer by the time i will be picking up the stuff from you:D

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by dogman dan » Jan 07, 2012 8:23 am

Much better for the really awkward cargo for sure. Can't picture much more awkward cargo than three kids. Really awkward cargo has me just getting out the really awkward truck. At a buck a mile, it never goes far.

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by SamTexas » Jan 07, 2012 8:34 am

Linukas wrote: Hi,
I have long talk with this BMS manufacturer, seems they make realy good thing, they can add bluetooth, but this needs big quantity order and some time, in next week I must get some samples, I'm buying regularly ev parts from china so I can offer stuff, this BMS too, for ES members...
this is other bms picture:
Image
Linas
Linas, I would love to see a new thread on the above BMS where you can tell more about it, especially since you are thinking of reselling it.

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Re: Custom frame cargo bike thread

Post by Linukas » Jan 09, 2012 5:01 am

I hope this week to get these BMS in my hands so I can write new thread. do not worry, I'll sell it for all who wants to buy it.
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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by electraflyit » Apr 24, 2012 6:33 am

Hi,
Love the look of that BMS. Have you tested it yet?
What sort of Price for the 24s version?
Eddie

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Aug 21, 2012 2:31 pm

Long time passed since i posted here. Started finaly thinking about my cargo bike. Battery almost finished, missing couple of cells. Started wiring this fancy BMS unit. Hopefully i will be able to extend LCD wires to mount on steering.:
Image

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Aug 21, 2012 4:02 pm

Any suggestion on head tube angle? Was going for 75

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by John in CR » Aug 21, 2012 10:20 pm

agniusm wrote:Any suggestion on head tube angle? Was going for 75
What size wheel are you going to run on the front?

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Aug 22, 2012 3:15 am

20" running front, 24" with HS3450 rear. At the moment i am coming at 2600mm in lenght (bullitt 240).
Thanks

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by John in CR » Aug 22, 2012 8:42 am

agniusm wrote:20" running front, 24" with HS3450 rear. At the moment i am coming at 2600mm in lenght (bullitt 240).
Thanks
With a long wheelbase like that along with varying front loads so the CG can change pretty drastically I'd copy the front end geometry of a proven bike as similar as possible. Since it's going to be electric and probably have typically higher speeds, I'd add about 1/2" of trail. The geometry up front is going to be critical enough that I would even design the headset connection so that if I didn't like the handling I could easily cut it and weld it at a different angle.

I had to do that on my cargo bike. The head angle was too steep at first giving it too much sensitivity to changes in CG, especially at speed. I hacked it off and slackened the head angle. I went a bit far resulting in a trail of about 4", but I've lived with that because it tracks so well at speed. It's pretty sluggish resulting in some weaving at very low speed, something you won't want on yours, since it sounds like more of a cargo hauler.

Are you able to test ride any cargo bikes? If so, test at very low speed as well as going down hill. Copy the geometry of the one you like best, or at least the handling differences will give you some direction.

I can't wait to see what you come up with. I've been dying to do a bak fiets, so maybe you'll come up with some stuff I can borrow.

John

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Aug 22, 2012 10:26 am

Thanks John, but this is a problem, none of these around, you cant even buy one unless abroad. I think i will search what is bullitt's and just replicate. I want to run production cargo and this is experiment on what i need, thou i will try to design my own center hub steering with suspension with adjustable rake cause elian cycles doesn't want to sell theyrs.
John in CR wrote: I had to do that on my cargo bike. The head angle was too steep at first giving it too much sensitivity to changes in CG, especially at speed. I hacked it off and slackened the head angle. I went a bit far resulting in a trail of about 4", but I've lived with that because it tracks so well at speed. It's pretty sluggish resulting in some weaving at very low speed, something you won't want on yours, since it sounds like more of a cargo hauler.

John
I dont know what type of steering you have used but i believe that one can adjust sensitivity by using different length brackets for linkage.

Thanks again

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by agniusm » Oct 14, 2012 12:57 am

Sketching up my cargo on PC, want to do this by the book. Doing in 3 phases, front, frame and back end. Got the question on rear suspension. Which way rear shock must be set up? Logic tells me that it should behave in circle motion, that is swing arm while at work has to follow circle curve meaning swing arm pivot point is a center of a circle. So i am thinking lifting swing arm to a point where it hits the frame with shock's bottom mounting would give me the point to fabricate top mount. Does this makes any sense or am i thinking wrong direction? Cheers

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Re: Custom frame, full suspension cargo bike thread

Post by AussieJester » Oct 14, 2012 1:19 am

Checkout Matt.P's (1000w ES nick) Cargo bike, might give you some ideas etc..good luck with the build

KiM

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