Ric's Next Project Bike? Build Thread

joystix2 · Feb 21, 2007

Well lets see. My first Ebike was a GT Tequesta with a BD36 on 36v20ah Nimh pack. So my next bike I wanted more. OK I wanted a lot more so I went all out on my next purchase. For the bike I purchased a DiamondBack Response Sport. See Pic Below. The bike store I bought it from was "Fast Bicycles" in SanJose. I went there because of a referal from a friend. I never even knew it existed. They went out of their way to modify the bike for my needs. They changed the rear disks to V-brakes since the Phoenix cant use disk brakes. They took off the knobbie tires and installed nicer Hybrid tires. They took off the hard tiny seat and changed it to a nice Gel seat with springs. All at no cost. Last but not least they gave me an extra 25% off the rack and paniers I bought. In my opinion that was great service from a mom and pop bike store.
For motor I decided on the Phoenix 26" Rear Hub with 7 speed cassette. The Controller I will be using is the 36-72v 35amp controller from the Poweridestore. I just ordered the 48v13ah Nimh from Batteryspace.com. Hopefully they can put out enough amps to get this beast moving. More pics to come with hopefully some Video at the end of this build.

joystix2 · Feb 21, 2007

Well my first issue was that the rear dropouts were a tiny bit too small for the Phoenix's axle. I grinded them out just a tiny bit and the Phoenix slid right it. And I mean a tiny bit. Second issue.....After all that hard work getting the innertube and tire onto the "Dang Heavy" Phoenix rim. Then getting it on the frame and bolting everything back together, pump up the tire, take it for a quick ride and DAM flat tire. After another 30 minutes of taking it apart and taking the innertube out, I found two little holes on the inside of the tube which touched the rim. So I checked the rim out and wouldn't you know there was a defect where the rim connects together. It was raised a little and it had caused a pinch in the tube. Had to grind it out a little and will see if it worked tomorrow morning.

fechter · Feb 22, 2007

That's going to be nice :wink:

But it started raining

You'll have to wait for that test ride.
I'll be real interested in how much the voltage sags on acceleration.

I really need to figure out a regen mod for these controllers.

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh · Feb 22, 2007

Ooo, I just learned something new today.
How to use a workmate as a bike support.

Thanx man!

joystix2 · Feb 22, 2007

Thanks Fecht,
I have the 36v10ah (x2) Nimh on my WE BD36. I purchased them from Batteryspace too because I saw the 30amp continuous rating on their site. When I first tried the first pack alone it wouldn't even get me going unless I gave it very little throttle. The sag was from 41v fullcharge to about 32v according to my WattMeter from Astroflight. But now my little bro bought me a DrainBrain for my BDay last Friday so can't wait to get everything running. AS for the 36v10ah Nimh, After the initial shock that it didn't work I ended up ordering another to put in parallel. The two together worked fine so I thought the 30amp continuous discharge was bogus. After about 10 cycles the batteries were running great so I decided to try one pack again to lighten the load....To my surprise it worked and it pulled as hard as two packs together.....I guess there is a break-in period like SLA's..... So I'll be running the Phoenix on 4 13ah Hawkers to get my thrills in between breaking in the 48v13ah Nimh pack....

xyster · Feb 22, 2007

Nice bike! The axle on my x5 didn't quite fit into the dropouts either, I had to grind off the axle about a millimeter. I was paranoid about grinding dropouts at all, especially since mine are aluminum. The axle's held up fine.

Would it be too heavy to throw one your 36v10ah nimh packs in series with the 48v13ah pack for 84 volts, or wire a switch to use that 36 volts as a "turbo"? Shame having good batteries laying around doin' nothing all day!

Look forward to the video.

joystix2 · Feb 22, 2007

I've been using the workmate for a bike support for years. It's better than putting the bike upside down in my opinion. Specially if you have a light and computer on the handlebar.

joystix2 · Feb 24, 2007

OK I just recieved the last part of the equation. Got my batteries from BatterySpace.com (48v13ah). These things are a lot larger and heavier than the 36v10ah packs I have from them. I can't even imagine how heavy 48v13ah Hawker SLAs would be that I thought I would use some times. That is a lot of weight over the rear axle. I sure hope my new bike can handle it. Here's a pic of the difference in size of the two Nimh packs.

knoxie · Feb 25, 2007

Hi

Nice build looking good, hmm lead acid batteries! ha ha err they may not last too long for you? stick with your NIMH a few nice long rides and top up charges and they will be fine.

Should be a nice little ride, good luck! oh also liking the workmate as a bike stand clamp, good idea! most people dont use them as work benches do they! ha ha it makes me laugh my buddy has one and he always works off the end of a worktop or doorstep when cutting wood ha ha lazy swine!

Knoxie

joystix2 · Feb 27, 2007

Here's some pics of my brother doing his magic with all the connections. He even successfully did the soldering to the little mini din connectors. Notice the 48v13ah Nimh pack and the controller all on the rack. That one heavy rear end....And thats without mine on there yet.

joystix2 · Feb 27, 2007

Another Pic

maytag · Feb 27, 2007

joystix2 said:
Here's some pics of my brother doing his magic with all the connections. He even successfully did the soldering to the little mini din connectors. Notice the 48v13ah Nimh pack and the controller all on the rack. That one heavy rear end....And thats without mine on there yet.

Ric,
Remember when I first started doing this stuff I didnt even need to wear glasses no matter how small the connector pins were. At least I still have my flexibility.

joystix2 · Mar 1, 2007

Jondo and my Brother Maytag came over last night for the first official night ride so I could get some cyles in on the new batteries and it finally stopped raining here in the Bay Area. It was a very chilly night at about 40-45 degrees. We just went down the street and did a 4 mile ride to the local coffee shop. Jon had his Cyclone Kit, Dave rode my Brushed We kitted Bike and me on my new Diamond Back Response Sport kitted with the Phoenix and 48v13ah Nimh. The Top speed I hit was 34.3 going there and from what Jon said his Cyclone hit 26mph. My poor brother was stuck at 23mph. I was very impressed with the power of the Phoenix and the 36-72v 35amp controller. I think this is a great combo. the throttleing is very precise and smooth. And I can bump the voltage more for some drag racing if the maniac in me wants to come out. Here's some Pics of Jon and I with our new rides....[/b]

TylerDurden · Mar 1, 2007

Nice pix. Hope you guys have gloves.

joystix2 · Mar 1, 2007

Tyler,
Oh we Gloves, Beanies and triple layers of clothing.

Today I went for another ride to cycle the Batteryspace Nimh pack again. I went down on our main road near my house where the speed limit is 45mph but has a huge bike lane. I went back and forth on about a 1.5 miles stretch until I got some mileage on it. Pretty much Full throttle one way which was with the wind and a slight Downhill and on the way back into the wind and slight uphill I tried to stay around 24-25mph with some peddleing.

Here are my totals according to the drainbrain:

Top speed - 37.5 mph
Total Miles - 10.23
Total amps used - 7.2ah
Average speed - 23.8mph

fechter · Mar 1, 2007

I guess that puts you in the 30mph club.
Any idea what your voltage sag was under acceleration?

If you bump up the voltage, you will get a bit more current to the motor, which will improve the drag racing abilities.
I'd still like to try one of my 90 amp controllers with a Phoenix. I'm afraid it might look like the flaming bird it's named after.

joystix2 · Mar 1, 2007

Well thats what I Like about these 35amp controllers. The max I've seen the Phoenix pull is 40amps which is still safe for the Nimh Pack I bought according to the specs at batteryspace.com. The specs say 40amps max continueous. If we had a 90amp controller we would have to go Lithiums or SLA's. I have two 36v10ah in parallel on my WE BD36 bike. If I connect them in Series I would have a 72v 10ah pack. Very tempting since my controller can handle it. The only thing I would be affraid of is the 36v10ah specs only say 30amp max continueous rating.

fechter · Mar 2, 2007

The stock current limit sounds close to max for your batteries.
If you exceed the max discharge rate for the batteries, they will get too hot. I think they can take over the continuous rating for short bursts.

Hmm.... forced-air cooling for the batteries. That's what Honda and Toyota use in their hybrid cars.

joystix2 · Mar 2, 2007

Yah after my pretty aggressive 10mile run yesterday the only thing that was warm was the controller. Both batteries and Motor were both cool to the touch. All wires and connectors were pretty cool too. I sure like them Sremos/Anderson connectors. Now I am worried though because my rack bag came in yesterday and I am now going to have my batteries and controller in it. I might install a small squirell cage fan in it like we did with our scooters. Like you said fan forced cooling...

fechter · Mar 2, 2007

Keep in mind that the bottom of the controller (the side with 12 screw heads) is where all the heat comes from. If there's any way to mount the controller outside, the cooling would be much better.

Something like a CPU cooler could be used if it was attached to the hot side. Any airflow over the hot side would help.

In some installations, it makes sense to detach both end plates on the controller and turn them upside-down so the hot side is on top.

With upgraded FETs, my controller is barely warm after a hard ride.

joystix2 · Mar 10, 2007

Update:

Jondo and I did another test ride yesterday with some beautiful weather. I installed the cruise controller I got from Poweridestore and it worked flawlessly. I just have to remember to turn it off when braking because it does not cancel itself when you hit the brakes. We did a 13.5 mile ride and tried to keep it at 20 mph with peddle from starts and some hills the last 3 miles of our ride. At the end my Drainbrain read that I had used 6.2ah of my 13 amp Nimh pack. That tells me that I could get about 25-30 miles at 20 mph. Thats pretty dang efficient for a powerful hub motor like the Phoenix. Heres some more final pics of my finished ride. Lovin every bit of it....

joystix2 · Mar 10, 2007

I forgot to mention that I used to have the batteries and controller in a Trunkbag which made it look really stealth but I was having heat issues with both components in the bag even if it was not zipped. I am currently looking into a fan forced cooling system.
As the highlight of Jondoh's and my day we hooked up his 4 Milwaukee Lithium Emoli packs to the Phoenix. Running at about 54v6ah we both did a speed run on a long straight away nearby. I had my Motorcycle jacket with full padding and kevlar inserts on and Fullface helmet for more safety and got up to 39.4 mph. John got up to 38 mph. Each run was about 1/4 to 1/2 mile each.

Stevil_Knevil · Mar 11, 2007

Dang, Stix! Had the new kit for less than a month.. and your already scratching at the 40 MPH clubs' door. You gotta be lovin' THAT! -S

TylerDurden · Mar 11, 2007

Beauty pix.

Jus thinkin out loud... I can't help but focus on all the weight being on the back, where it's unsprung.

Anybody put their batts in a handlebar basket type config?

You got suspension, balances better fore/aft and it's cooler up there...

:?:

fechter · Mar 11, 2007

Yes, it looks very nice.

I agree the handling would be much better if you could fit the battery inside the triangle of the frame. Of course it won't quite fit there, but it might if you tore the pack apart and re-configured the cells.

Another suggestion: Unscrew both end plates on the controller and flip them upside down, then turn the whole thing over so the screw side of the controller is facing up. All the heat is coming off the screw side. I really don't know why they don't make them this way to begin with.

Even better, take three strips of 1/2" aluminum U channel and drill holes that line up with the rows of screws. Smear the bottom of the channels with heatsink compound and bolt these on with the screws (with thin channel, the stock screws should be long enough). Now you have cooling fins that will about double the effective surface area.

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