A-Lines Abound: First ride after some major changes

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Re: A-Lines Abound: Back in action... and new PIX!

Postby MattyCiii » Mon May 27, 2013 6:30 pm

More pictures!

I realized I have no pictures of the drive wheel from the right side. I'll try to remedy that below.

Wide view - showing the complexity of the operation:
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Some close-ups:
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If these parts had a tarnished bronze patina I could probably win a prize at some steampunk event.
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I like how these two shots turned out...
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And last but not least, the one lonely shot of the right side of the Lefty front wheel
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1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Back in action... and new PIX!

Postby MattyCiii » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:44 pm

I did some work on the bike today.

First, I looked for a better place to mount the chain tensioner. I think a good place to try is to make a mount that clamps around the shaft collar (the same way the DaVinci Drive does, towards the left). There's space between the freewheel and the dropouts/mounting bracket. Doing so would give me some room for fine tuning: by rotating the chain tensioner mount around the shaft collar a bit, I can move the mount point of the chain tensioner. Executing this plan is for another day, though.
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Today's task: Replace the reduction drive shaft. Why? One, because it was nice out and I wanted to work on the back porch, two, because I have the new, longer one on hand, and three... I've wanted to do this a long time. You'll see in the picture below, the shaft I have is about an inch short:
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Here's the new shaft. See my scientific way of measuring the fit?
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While taking the reduction apart, I found an issue...


Next, there was the 'ol "can't get the shaft out with hand strength alone" syndrome...
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Enter the hammer:
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Loosened that puppy right up.
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Here's the reduction system, with a little bit of winter corrosion. You see the large bely pulley on the shaft, and the freewheel adapter w/ mounted freewheel, a small shim, and a ~8mm wide aluminum spacer.
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Check this out: Notice how the hole for the set screw is a few degrees clockwise from the flat I ground in the shaft? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah.
I could not back that set screw out to save my life. So, I clamped the shaft into my bench vice, and torqued the pulley by hand counter-clockwise. It "came loose", which is to say the flat aligned with the set screw, without tremendous effort. The set screw came out easily.

Notice also in the picture, where the pulley system meets the shaft. That's about 1.5mm deep groove where the aluminum pulley meets the steel bearing inner race. I reinforced this mating area with a 1/2" stainless steel washer, but I don't like how much play there is between the washer and the shaft. I'm going to get some shims from McMaster, shims sit much closer to the shaft.
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All put together: see the shaft sticking out the middle of the pulley... Excellent, the reduction is now supported for its entire length.
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Here's the other side.
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Last edited by MattyCiii on Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Back in action... and new PIX!

Postby MattyCiii » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:51 pm

Quick updates:
1) I got some 0.5" x 0.09" shims and installed them on the shaft. Things fit together with better tolerance now - but not something one can sense or see on the assembled drive unit.
2) Currently I only have e-brake cutoff for one brake - want them on both. I took my spare Magura Gustav rear brake, cleaned it up, replaced the dubious brake line and installed a cutoff switch. Bled the thing and tested the switch - works fine. Next time I have a spare hour I'll install the brake, and wire up a short (parallel) wiring harness so the throttle goes to zero when either brake is pulled.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: New mount for battery box

Postby Ch00paKabrA » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:01 pm

teklektik wrote:
Ch00paKabrA wrote:Here is the trick, for future reference.
...
Step 3: Spoon one bead onto the tire making sure that you END the spooning at the tire valve.

Hmmm - interesting technique.
What's the reasoning behind the tire valve requirement?


The reason is that the rim is shaped with a dish in the middle. in order for the tire to be able to be spooned on the rim, it needs to be able to get all the way down into the deepest section of the rim. Some times the tire valve has much thicker rubber around it and may prevent the tire bead from slipping deeply into the rim. Also, I have ripped the rubber around the valve as well.

Last tip is to use three spoons and and put the last one in well before the tire is tight against the rim so that you don't scratch the rim.

Hope that clarifies.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby MattyCiii » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:08 pm

So I'm installing e-brake cutoffs on both brakes on my bikes. Why? Well, my one e-brake recently saved my bacon and I decided it's not too much to ask to have safety at my fingertips on both sides of the bike. I'm close to implementing a solution on my folding bike.

For this bike, I have hydraulic brakes on both sides. Magura Gustav's - top of the line brakes, but purchased used. I thought I'd be clever and splice the e-brake switch into my spare rear brake (the bike's front brake already has the e-brake cutoff installed). This way I'd have an operational bike until the work was done and tested. But the thing is - it's sometimes hard to tell (for me at least) if there's air in the brake lines when the brake is not actually installed. I thought I had it all sewn up, so I de-installed my operational rear brake, and as a shortcut I drained the brake fluid and removed the handle... this made sense the way I had the line routed. This also meant that no matter what, I was depending on a proper bleed if I want any rear wheel stopping power.

Over the following 3 days I must have bled the system a dozen times. What's that they say - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Yeah, I've proven I'm insane. I've done everything, including swapping the known good brake handle and calipers from the original brakes onto the bike. In doing so I noticed the "O" ring on the banjo bolt looks a little sketchy... so hell, I've got a bag of 10 on order now and bunch of brake line olives too. I really want this bike on the road for the 4th of July weekend, and riding mountain roads with a neutered rear brake is not an option.

Wish me luck guys. I've studied the bleed procedure, I'm certain I'm doing it right. It's gotta be a bad part somewhere in the system letting air get in. Daaaaaaaam.

Edit: For my own convenience, I'm linking the guide to bleeding Magura Gustav's I've been following. I'm presently out of town, so my next run at properly bleeding the rear brake will be Monday night.
Last edited by MattyCiii on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby cal3thousand » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:11 pm

I had that issue with my wife's bike. Turned out to be a loose fitting at the sensor. Tightened it up good and it has been fine since. After bleeding again, of course
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby MattyCiii » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:43 pm

Glamor shots. This one is my favorite:

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Notice anything different with the bike?

More shots:
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Image

Image

Image
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby Andje » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:56 pm

Love the shots!

If I might say, if you ever head back there with a camera, if the bike was only facing the other way, it would REALLY emphasize the lefty shock and look that tad bit more amazing imho. I wish the open space was facing us!
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby hydro-one » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:14 pm

Oh yeah , love bleeding brakes!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: great bike , im sure you love it too!!
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby deepfraught » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:16 pm

Great work, very impressive, I just read of the 750W road e-bike limit in USA so now see why that's there (200W here, 250W pedelec)
Like TwoFace I didn't notice the lefty, and was just looking at my own this morning after putting a new front tyre on it =P
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby 900steve » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:52 am

looks really clean with no fenders!
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby MattyCiii » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:47 pm

900steve wrote:looks really clean with no fenders!

Yeah. The bike ate the rear fender one day recently. :oops:
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby MattyCiii » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:10 pm

Sighted in the wild:
I went to the Boston Bike Party and some people took pictures. I'm flattered :D
Here are some pictures...
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That's my bum, one knows these things. Can't really make out the bike though.
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OK, so my secret identity is safe in all these pix. Or, the photographer wanted to keep out the ugly. Either way, the lack of face shots is not intentional. :)
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby MattyCiii » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:47 pm

"Hey! Watch this!"
Many a youtube fail video begins with this quote.

So, while riding with the Boston Bike Party on Tuesday night, I said that. At least to myself. Then I gave the throttle a nice twist, aimed at a curb to cut across a grassy field and catch up with other bikers. The bike took the curb just fine, the Lefty fork absorbed most of the jarring impact... then...
Ker-chunk! all I saw was my pelican case full-o-batteries rolling through the grass next to me. My battery box sheared off the front of the bike. Crap.

After I found the 6" power lead in the grass, I decided to stick with the Bike Party. Fortunately, a couple of velcro straps were sufficient to hold remnants of the detachable mount in place, so I could ride with power. The Bike Party moves slowly, but dragging 120lbs of bike uphill really sucks even at low speeds.

Carnage pix: "before" picture. Note that's 2mm thick plastic, designed to hold a 35lb monitor safely in place - Let's assume the designers did not anticipate the shock loads I subjected this thing to...
Image

"After": Yeah, somewhere on the streets of Boston lies the missing piece of this mount...
Image

The bike is back on the road with a replacement/spare mount. The original lasted ~6 months with a goodly amount of high speed bumps and curbs. BUT, I'll be machining a 1/16" steel replacement right away. After all, the purpose of this bike is to be bomb-proof. I can't be riding around with 2mm of plastic being the difference between "Woah!" and "Awwwwwww!"
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby MattyCiii » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:10 pm

Andje wrote:If I might say, if you ever head back there with a camera, if the bike was only facing the other way, it would REALLY emphasize the lefty shock and look that tad bit more amazing imho. I wish the open space was facing us!


Ask and you shall receive!
Image
Image
Image

Hmmm, that background is more distracting than thought... I'll take more pix soon.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: **more** new pictures!

Postby Andje » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:51 pm

hmmm i appreciate you efforts but tbh now i think i was wrong, it's six of one; the motor is hidden now and that was equally cool looking. Methinks the ideal would be a photoshop of the front and rear halves each at their best :P
Last edited by Andje on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: **more** new pictures!

Postby deepfraught » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:40 pm

I like the two-face nature of the bike.

Naked right side with lefty and pedal drive only, and something of a da Vinci invention on the left side =D
Last edited by deepfraught on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Recreational: BBSHD 100mm on fat bike through a Rohloff XL, soft programming gentle on the hub, pedal only and long range capable.
Civil duty: Corratec 29er Diamond Trekking Bosch Performance Line 400Wh Alfine 8sp, auxiliary battery port.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros).
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Re: A-Lines Abound: **more** new pictures!

Postby 900steve » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:22 am

Matt,
Clearly you need to find a way to move the electric drive to the other side of the bike!

-steve
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Re: A-Lines Abound: **more** new pictures!

Postby MattyCiii » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:08 am

900steve wrote:Matt,
Clearly you need to find a way to move the electric drive to the other side of the bike!

-steve

What better way to check out the larger range of your mill? :D

deepfraught wrote:I like the two-face nature of the bike...

Like kellogg's Frosted Mini Wheats cerial.

Andje wrote:hmmm i appreciate you efforts but tbh now i think i was wrong, it's six of one; the motor is hidden now and that was equally cool looking. Methinks the ideal would be a photoshop of the front and rear halves each at their best :P

Yeah there's something about that steampunk-ey look of the drive system.
Forget Photoshop - I'm building another bike!
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: Let it bleed

Postby shenzhen_ex » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:55 am

MattyCiii wrote:"After": Yeah, somewhere on the streets of Boston lies the missing piece of this mount...
Image


OMG that is bad. Now my mind is made up. I am definitely machining heavy duty aluminum battery box mounts. I don't want to see my battery box sliding down some crowded Chinese city street. It would probably hit 10 people before it stopped :shock: :oops: .
Image
Last edited by shenzhen_ex on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:19 am, edited 3 times in total. View post history.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: **more** new pictures!

Postby adam333 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:27 pm

Yeah. The bike ate the rear fender one day recently. :oops:


hehe, gota feed the beast properly... My next and probably last project on the Aline is to make a custom carbon fiber rear Fender that look good AND stop mud.


Carnage pix: "before" picture. Note that's 2mm thick plastic, designed to hold a 35lb monitor safely in place - Let's assume the designers did not anticipate the shock loads I subjected this thing to...
Image


Some how, I always thought that piece was made of black anodised aluminium. the 1/16" steel modification was required indeed. Its a good thing that the batteries remained intact.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: New speed record (36.5mph)

Postby MattyCiii » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:21 pm

New top speed for the bike: 36.5mph!

Now, I realize that's no big deal these days. It's only about 1/3 of what John in CR can do with his hub monster. But, it's plenty good for me. The design goal for this bike was always 40mph. I'll ride it awhile at 36.5, and when I'm convinced it's not going to blow up, I'll tweak the gearing for more top speed. For example, I hit the max amps (99) a few times, but the motor still didn't get over 49*C. I have not looked at the punishment the controller saw, that will have to wait for another day.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: New speed record (36.5mph)

Postby recumpence » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:16 pm

My trike was geared for 41mph with a single 3220 and it ran fine. I pulled 160 amps regularly (many times per day) without any problems.

Just gear it up and hang on!

You may find the accelleration will improve with taller gearing. It is counter-intuitive, but often that happens.

Matt
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Re: A-Lines Abound: New speed record (36.5mph)

Postby MattyCiii » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:12 pm

recumpence wrote:My trike was geared for 41mph with a single 3220 and it ran fine. I pulled 160 amps regularly (many times per day) without any problems.

Just gear it up and hang on!

You may find the accelleration will improve with taller gearing. It is counter-intuitive, but often that happens.

Matt


Thanks for weighing in Matt!
The bike currently has a 3220, 4 turn. I'll bet when I have the cajones to gear this bike down for 41mph I'll be in the 160 amps range too. I'm walking this path slowly though... in the summer heat, I don't always wear the motorcycle helmet and jacket, which come in quite handy when the bike tosses me off the back!
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.
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Re: A-Lines Abound: New speed record (36.5mph)

Postby chill4x4saph » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:08 pm

really nice bike!!!, love the engineering!!
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