Home made chain drive cruiser

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » May 15 2008 8:35pm

1000w wrote:
Thats some serious looking PC stuff. Is that water cooling I see? Nice one!!
Yes indeed it is watercooling, made the block, Reservoir and HDD Caddy myself, the pumps are a pair of Laing 655's all connected with Tygon 7/16 tubing :-)
1000w wrote:The top tube is 35mm OD, not sure of the thickness]
Cheers for that, i have 4-5 bikes donor bikes on their way and have some tubing here now (mate of a mate has a re-cycling plant luckily so metal and bikes will be freebies :-) ) I liked the larger diameter of your top tube and would like to use the same size myself on the front part of the frame ;-) The disk brakes will be a nice addition to the bike ;-) there are plenty of sets on ebay if you haven't already acquired the components i was having a look at them yesterday :-)

Cheers for those links to Matt bookmared ;-) Particularly
like the second one they have some goodies i'll be needing ;-) I am wondering how the 48 Volt 1200 Watt Electric Scooter Motor for 179 bucks might fair in my trike? I definitely like the price.

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Dee Jay   100 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by Dee Jay » May 16 2008 8:57pm

Hi 1000w, just a quick thank you for all the info and the links!

I've been busy getting my A123 15 cell/50v stick into my bike frame tube *tail wagging*

I will try the sprocket and freewheel that comes with the kit to see if I can live with the noise. Good to know the motor is gearless.

Will go on a two week holiday and look into ordering my Cyclone kit when I get back. 8)

Cheers!
J

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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » May 19 2008 7:55am

Dee Jay wrote:how fast would I go on my 20" without internal gearing like yours?
My bike does 47.5km/h in second gear ie 1:1 in the hub, 11:80 in the chain drive, and driving a 20" wheel.
Cheers,
Matt.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » May 20 2008 10:44am

1000w wrote:, I got mine (11t) off a friend who had bought several motors.
The large sprocket is 80t, so the ratio is approx 7 to 1.
Matt, my arithmetic is less than atrocious, i was hoping you could help me with the gearing or point me to a formula I can follow? I completely understand if you don't have the time.

My thoughts were to use the same gearing as you ie.7:1 or close to it if this is a good option? (i will be using 20in rims same motor speed controller etc as yourself FYI) and/or since a trike will weigh a far bit more plus i will be carrying/towing (not sure which is the better option here either suggestions ?) my sports wheelchair behind maybe you (or another member safe possibly?) could recommend a ratio that would work better for me keeping in mind the hilly area i live in? Obviously I would like the top speed as high as possible that said i dont have the option to push or pedal if it cant get up the hill so hill climbing ability is paramount.... if possible i would like to have a smaller rear sprocket, it will make the drive train assembly I have planned out more compact (bit hard to picture i'll try to explain briefly...) i have to have the chain from motor to 3 speed hub (with large sprocket doctored to fit) whilst the original sprocket remains and a chain running from it to a sprocket of the same tooth count on the rear axel. Now you have the 11 tooth front and 80 rear, how small rear sprocket will i be able to go? Any chance at all of -->

Image

If so how do i work out the front sprocket size? Im sorry if this is a completely ridiculous question/idea but would greatly appreciate any help you or another member can offer :-)

Thankyou in advance

:-)

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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » May 21 2008 9:24pm

AussieJester wrote:i was hoping you could help me with the gearing or point me to a formula I can follow?
Have a look at this; http://www.dynamicscience.com.au/tester ... mpound.htm and see if it helps.
I am having trouble picturing your drive line, sorry. Have you got a diagram?
Cheers,
Matt.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » May 21 2008 10:24pm

1000w wrote: I am having trouble picturing your drive line, sorry. Have you got a diagram?

Matt.
Firstly thanks for that link :-)

As for the diagram i did this quickly in paint -->

Image

i neglected to label the 3 speed hub, it is the what the two sprockets will be attached to....hopefully, still awaiting delivery have to see if it is even possible to attach the larger sprocket and keep the original. I was thinking I maybe able to turn the original sprocket around then get another identical sprocket for the 3 speed hub and attack the larger sprocket to it in the same manner you have done and slide it on to the hub next to the original with a spacer between the two? ...something along those lines anywayz..Customchoppers sell a 3 speed hub with dual sprockets for trikes they are $US149 so i am hoping i can manufacture something to suit my needs :-)

I thought it maybe possible to change the original 3 speed hub and rear axel sprockets if i drop the large sprocket size down to 50 or so tooth count? Its rather complicated for me, the link you gave me will be helpful i think, shall sit down tonight and try and work something out so i can get an order underway :-)

Thanks for your time matt :-)

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by Miles » May 22 2008 12:08am

Aussie,

The second sprocket will need to be attached to the hub shell, or the internal gears will be bypassed. I would have thought a hub gear with a fitting for disc brakes would be the way to go.

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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » May 22 2008 1:27am

Miles wrote:The second sprocket will need to be attached to the hub shell, or the internal gears will be bypassed.
Aussie, I was wondering too, do you want to uterlise the gearing in the hub?
If you use a 11t motor sprocket and a 54t rear with no other reduction in the system, I estimate a top speed of 33 to 35kmh on 20" tyres.
Cheers,
Matt.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » May 22 2008 1:39am

1000w wrote:
Miles wrote:The second sprocket will need to be attached to the hub shell, or the internal gears will be bypassed.
Aussie, I was wondering too, do you want to uterlise the gearing in the hub?
If you use a 11t motor sprocket and a 54t rear with no other reduction in the system, I estimate a top speed of 33 to 35kmh on 20" tyres.
Cheers,
Matt.

ah excellent thanks for that matt...35km i think i could be happy with considering this trike will be 99% footpath/bike path bound i gather with the sprockets in question it would also have better hill climbing ability? Maybe concuring Kala hill is a possibility hehe....? And yes, i did want to utilize the 3 speed hub hence its inclusion :-) I was of the assumption though, the large sprocket needed to be fitted to the hub (where the original sprocket is) ? Miles cheers for your input also, appreciated... and now i think about it the sprocket can be fitted directly to the external hub housing cant it? as the final drive chain will be on the original sprocket on the 3 speed hub anyways.... i think thats correct isn't it?

Matt apologies also for getting away from your fabulous build, i wanted to start my own thread but was trying to hang off till i actually had some construction shots (hopefully this will happen over the weekend)

Thanks again fellas :-)

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by Miles » May 22 2008 3:18am

AussieJester wrote: as the final drive chain will be on the original sprocket on the 3 speed hub anyways.... i think thats correct isn't it?
Hi Aussie,

No, the original sprocket will be the input from the first stage and the sprocket on the shell will go to the wheel (I don't think you can back-drive these hubs). I would fit the new sprocket to the left-hand side of the hub, then you'll have plenty of space.

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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » May 25 2008 8:43pm

1000w wrote:If you use a 11t motor sprocket and a 54t rear with no other reduction in the system, I estimate a top speed of 33 to 35kmh on 20" tyres.
Aussie I have made a mistake. The 54t will give you more top speed not less. I don't know how I mixed that up. You would get around 70kmh, but it would be sluggish up hills and taking off.
Cheers,
Matt.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » May 25 2008 8:54pm

1000w wrote:
1000w wrote:If you use a 11t motor sprocket and a 54t rear with no other reduction in the system, I estimate a top speed of 33 to 35kmh on 20" tyres.
Aussie I have made a mistake. The 54t will give you more top speed not less. I don't know how I mixed that up. You would get around 70kmh, but it would be sluggish up hills and taking off.
Cheers,
Matt.
Not a problem mate ;-) I ended up going with the 80 tooth sprocket ;-)

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Gregory   100 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by Gregory » Jun 02 2008 7:32am

Very nice job there Matt. I'd love to see that bike cruising the streets.

I'm in the WA club too, living in Roleystone, lots of big hills here too. My Chinese hub motor scooter doesn't cope.

I'm planning to drop 20+kg of lead to make it more useable.
I'd join in a group purchase of Ping duct tape packs, or more recently I've been looking at the cyclone LiFePO4 DIY packs if you're keen.


Cheers, Greg


1) x5305 Hub Motor in a 24" Sun rim with 10G spokes, Kelly 72601 controller, 74V 10Ah Turnigy LiPo 20C Battery and CycleAnalyst
2) Mac 10T rear hub in a 700C "comfort bike" 15S 5Ah LiPo, stock 28A Xie Cheng controller
3) 38" Longboard, Turnigy 6374, CC Mamba XL2 ESC

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GGoodrum   100 MW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by GGoodrum » Jun 02 2008 2:40pm

This is a very cool ride. I just today received one of these 1000W motor kits. I'm going to use it to replace a 72V X5 setup on my Townie beach cruiser, that had a 4100-modified controller that I just blew up this week. The controller had the current limit upped to 100A+, which I found is a bit too much for the stock 5304 motor wires. :shock: :oops: The wires melted together and then the controller blew. :roll:

Anyway, finding this thread, and ypedal's "Big Chopper" thread convinced me to pull the trigger. I also read all through all ten pages of the "Stepper motor..." thread, but I think this is more relevant to what I want to do. My Townie, shown below, has a 21-speed Shimano setup right now. I'll get rid of the front deraileur, with the 3 chain rings, and replace it with the dual setup that comes with the kit. I'm still playing with what the gearing will end up being. One thing that would be useful to know is what the gearing is on your 3-speed gearhub. I know 2nd gear is 1:1, but what about 1st and 3rd?

Image

For now, I will try the existing 7-speed deraileur setup, but eventually, I think I'd like to change this out for a Nexus 3-speed hub.

I look forward to seeing how your machine does with the LiFePO4 pack. Did you get this yet? Getting rid of all that weight should make a pretty significant difference in performance.

-- Gary

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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » Jun 02 2008 9:50pm

Gregory wrote:I'd join in a group purchase of Ping duct tape packs, or more recently I've been looking at the cyclone LiFePO4 DIY packs if you're keen.
Is there a group purchase happening?
Have you worked out the total cost, for cyclone, 48v 20ah, bms, and charger?
Thanks for the feedback on my bike Gregory.
GGoodrum wrote:One thing that would be useful to know is what the gearing is on your 3-speed gearhub.
I'm sorry but I don't know the ratios.
GGoodrum wrote:I look forward to seeing how your machine does with the LiFePO4 pack. Did you get this yet?
Haven't purchased yet.
I look forward to seeing how your Townie goes with the 1000w driving through the main chain. I have some concerns that the gearing will be too high though. All the other kits that drive like this have a reduction box on the motor output. Maybe the 1000w is powerful enough???
Cheers,
Matt.

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by docnjoj » Jun 03 2008 7:56am

Miles showed me this http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/inter ... ub-review/
It says the new Shimano is 186% between top and low gear, and the old SA about 177%. Prolly the old Shimano is similar. Mine works great once U get the right size sprocket (front or rear) Right now on my Tricruiser I have low, lower and lowest! But it can crawl up walls! Oh, Im using the entire rear end of a Mongoose CX24V450 with Shimano hub!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

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2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » Jun 04 2008 9:33pm

Gregory wrote:
I'm in the WA club too, living in Roleystone, lots of big hills here too. My Chinese hub motor scooter doesn't cope.
Between me and you Gregory we have the two hilliest suburbs in WA covered i think LoL (im in Lesmurdie) Great locations to live in and owning an e-bike ain't it :-S

Looking forward to seeing the springer front end on the cruiser matt ;-)

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by GGoodrum » Jun 05 2008 12:16pm

Matt, I'm trying to work out the gearing on my Townie, so that I get approximately the same speeds, with a 26" tire, that you have on your machine, with 20". I think you said that you get 57.5 km/hr in the top gear, and 47.5 km/hr, in 2nd, which is 1:1, is that right? Do you happen to know the voltage the WattsUp is reporting, when you are at these top speed points? That will let me figure out the kV (revolutions per volt) and efficiency of the motor. I assume you are doing these speed tests with the batteries right off the charger, is that right? I think I know the ratios of the Shimano hub you have (.733, 1.0, 1.36), but I'm having a hard time trying to make the numbers work for 47.5 and 57 km/hr, for 2nd and 3rd gears, respectively.

My Townie has a cassette with a 34T, down to 14T. I'd like to get at least the same sort of torque you are see with your first gear. That means I need to use a smaller drive sprocket/chainring than the 36T that comes with the kit. Through another ES member (dirtdad...), who happens to have a bike accessory business, fairly close to me, I found a 74T chainring that should work. I think that should get me close to the same final gear ratios to what you have.

-- Gary

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jmygann   100 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by jmygann » Jun 05 2008 2:57pm

have your figured out Watt hours per mile ?

Did you consider any other motors ?

Any reason you used that 3 speed ?

I want to do a similar project also ? ala SRAM 3 speed
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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » Jun 06 2008 9:19am

GGoodrum wrote:I think you said that you get 57.5 km/hr in the top gear, and 47.5 km/hr, in 2nd, which is 1:1, is that right?
Yes thats about right.
GGoodrum wrote:Do you happen to know the voltage the WattsUp is reporting, when you are at these top speed points?
I haven't really noticed the volts, however I don't think an accurate calculation of kv and efficiency of the motor can be made with the current batteries. They are worn out and suffer bad volt drop right from the start and are providing only 2Ah's out of their 20Ah rating. When I get a Ping Lipo maybe I can be of more help.
jmygann wrote:have your figured out Watt hours per mile ?
I average 19Wh/km.
jmygann wrote:Did you consider any other motors ?
I didn't, I choise it for 3 main reasons, price, brushless, 1000w. Really happy with it, it's beast of a motor with ample power.
jmygann wrote:Any reason you used that 3 speed ?

The 3 speed allows better hill climbing and take off while providing good top end speed.
Cheers,
Matt.

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by jmygann » Jun 08 2008 7:35pm

Could you make me a tadpole trike with this set up ?

Anyone
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1000w   1 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by 1000w » Jun 09 2008 8:29pm

jmygann wrote:Could you make me a tadpole trike with this set up ?
I guess you are asking me this question. I am not sure what a tadpole trike is and sorry I am way too busy with a 13 month old child to take on work.
Cheers,
Matt.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by AussieJester » Jun 09 2008 8:46pm

1000w wrote: I am not sure what a tadpole trike is
I believe he means these veeehicles Matt ;-)

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jmygann   100 kW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by jmygann » Jun 09 2008 10:18pm

Attachments
runabout tadpole.jpg
runabout tadpole.jpg (80.07 KiB) Viewed 3174 times
48 V Semi-recumbent

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recumpence   100 GW

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Re: Home made chain drive cruiser

Post by recumpence » Jun 10 2008 2:59pm

GGoodrum,

Long time no see! I haven't seen you on RC Groups in a loooong time.

Great to bump into you!

Matt (Heli Mod Man) :mrgreen:
1% of the world's population can think "Outside the box". The rest are firmly stuck within the box. Where are you?

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