E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

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Trackman417   10 kW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Trackman417 » Nov 24 2013 1:49pm

korpin wrote:
korpin wrote:that's a beauty looks like carbon fiber!

well my battery took a shit again after only a few miles...dam I have less than 100 charges on it....HPC says the charges do not matter they all go out after 2 years not sure I buy that looks like its new battery time Already!...the 40 volt pack goes to 19 volts after just a few miles! :cry:
What do you mean two years? You only had your phasor for a year or so right? My batteries are still going strong after a year and they are lipo not their overpriced LiMNC batteries. Build your own lipo pack, you will have a lot less problems then you are having with your current battery.
I'm sorry to tell you this but you paid way too much money to have these sort of problems. Your only problem should be your riding your bike too much :wink:
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Nov 24 2013 1:55pm

HPCs LiNmCO batteries are really good, some of the best energy storage to weight ratio around, but their chemistry can start breaking down after a couple of years regardless of how many times they are charged and discharged. Lipos are the same for the most part. HPC's old website reflected this on the battery page. Lasts about 3 years whether they had 100 charge/discharge cycles or 800 charge/discharge cycles. In conjunction, LifePo4 can last up to 7 years with a little care and monitoring. The tradeoff is LifePo4 in its current state will never have the high C ratings as Li Ion has. And Li Ion falls behind Lipoly in C ratings. HPC rates there batteries for 800 charge/discharge cycles. Unless you ride and charge 5 days a week, probably wont get that many cycles out of it before they start breaking down.

Rick

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Nov 24 2013 1:57pm

I'm sorry to tell you this but you paid way too much money to have these sort of problems. Your only problem should be your riding your bike too much :wink:
I was thinking the same thing.

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Nov 25 2013 1:48am

YEAH I AM TAKING IT IN TO SHOP MONDAY SEE WHATS UP...looks like the main battery is toast...this is off topic but thought you guys might like seeing this bike it has Lithium Nanophosphate batteries: http://greyp-bikes.com/
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korpin   10 kW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Nov 25 2013 2:03am

here is something else that might interest you: http://www.gizmag.com/m13-virus-electro ... ery/29791/ I was asking the guys at HPC if any practical fuel cells were available but it looks like battery technology is growing ahead of fuel cell technology

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by amberwolf » Nov 25 2013 11:07pm

korpin wrote:this is off topic but thought you guys might like seeing this bike it has Lithium Nanophosphate batteries: http://greyp-bikes.com/
Oh, we've seen those just a little bit. That's our own HAL9000, if you've seen the GreyBorg, etc., here on ES. ;)
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=53255
(among other threads for the new site/info/bikes)


Also, you don't have to bold everything you post--it's much easier to read if you don't do that. ;)

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by wingsuit » Nov 26 2013 12:22pm

whats everyone useing for seat clamp size? my caliper makes it look like 32mm but I notice they also sell 31.9mm and 31.8mm so I'm not sure if my calipers are a little off

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Nov 28 2013 10:39pm

Rix wrote:HPCs LiNmCO batteries are really good, some of the best energy storage to weight ratio around, but their chemistry can start breaking down after a couple of years regardless of how many times they are charged and discharged. Lipos are the same for the most part. HPC's old website reflected this on the battery page. Lasts about 3 years whether they had 100 charge/discharge cycles or 800 charge/discharge cycles. In conjunction, LifePo4 can last up to 7 years with a little care and monitoring. The tradeoff is LifePo4 in its current state will never have the high C ratings as Li Ion has. And Li Ion falls behind Lipoly in C ratings. HPC rates there batteries for 800 charge/discharge cycles. Unless you ride and charge 5 days a week, probably wont get that many cycles out of it before they start breaking down.

Rick
what about metal-air batteries?...been hearing about those guess they have been working on them for over 20 years...heard there is a company making zinc air batteries but only in huge industrial sizes...any small metal air batteries close to production?

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Nov 28 2013 11:19pm

I don't know anything about those kinds of batteries.

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Kepler » Nov 29 2013 3:33am

amberwolf wrote:
Also, you don't have to bold everything you post--it's much easier to read if you don't do that. ;)
I just presumed he was shouting :)
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Rodney64   1 MW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rodney64 » Nov 29 2013 8:27am

wingsuit wrote:whats everyone useing for seat clamp size? my caliper makes it look like 32mm but I notice they also sell 31.9mm and 31.8mm so I'm not sure if my calipers are a little off

Wingsuit mines 31.9

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Dec 01 2013 1:00am

interesting batteries seem to have a high energy to weight ratio: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-18650-2-56 ... 0712561846

any thoughts?

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 01 2013 10:16am

Reminds me of a generic Headway cell. That's what Stealth used before the current pouch cells. These cells would be a step backwards from your current HPC setup in terms of weight and continues and energy storage per KG.

Rick

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Hyena » Dec 01 2013 6:25pm

They will be rubbish, don't even think about it. No brand and no specs = no go.
5000mah from an 18650 cell is a real stretch at the best of times, let alone trying to extract any decent current from it.
Typically higher energy = lower power with 18650s. So even if it really could delivery 5000mah you'd find that was at 0.2C or something similarly useless in an ebike application. At the very minimum you want something that can do 3C, and in a phasor frame this means you should fit 20ah which would be acceptable for moderately powered set ups.
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t3sla   10 kW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by t3sla » Dec 01 2013 8:17pm

korpin wrote:interesting batteries seem to have a high energy to weight ratio: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-18650-2-56 ... 0712561846

any thoughts?
I think it's an expensive firework.

Only way you are getting 5000Mah is if they are in parallel.

This is what you call left scrap or recycled stock.

If your 18650 doesn't have a datasheet, don't use it :|
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 01 2013 9:32pm

Hyena wrote:They will be rubbish, don't even think about it. No brand and no specs = no go.
5000mah from an 18650 cell is a real stretch at the best of times, let alone trying to extract any decent current from it.
Typically higher energy = lower power with 18650s. So even if it really could delivery 5000mah you'd find that was at 0.2C or something similarly useless in an ebike application. At the very minimum you want something that can do 3C, and in a phasor frame this means you should fit 20ah which would be acceptable for moderately powered set ups.
I think it's an expensive firework.

Only way you are getting 5000Mah is if they are in parallel.

This is what you call left scrap or recycled stock.

If your 18650 doesn't have a datasheet, don't use it
Yah, what Hyena and Tesla said. I was much too nice.

korpin   10 kW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Dec 02 2013 3:09am

well I hear you guys loud and clear....this site is relatively inexpensive and gives a 2 year warranty: http://www.allcelltech.com/images/act/e ... _ebike.pdf

HOWEVER I would have to put two 48 volt packs together in series to get 96 volts at say 13 amp hour for 1421.00 INCLUDING SHIPPING!...Cheaper than HPC AND better warranty BUT at a weight of 17.2 pounds

HPC 90 VOLT battery 13 AH battery is 1949.00 BUT weighs 13.88 pounds quite a difference!

that PRICE on two allcell 48volt 13 ah is from: http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/catalog/L ... s-2-1.html they apply discount when you go to pay cart! (710.00 for one including shipping but that is the lower end of their 48 volt packs from allcelltech)

looks like some of their other lower voltage batteries are closer in weight to HPC too bad they do not make higher voltages
Last edited by korpin on Dec 02 2013 1:56pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rodney64 » Dec 02 2013 5:52am

Being 86mm wide this battery may fit in the frame. I made up card board copies of my battery's before I had them made to see if they would fit.

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Dec 02 2013 1:53pm

Rodney64 wrote:Being 86mm wide this battery may fit in the frame. I made up card board copies of my battery's before I had them made to see if they would fit.
when you say "being 86mm wide this battery may fit frame" which battery are you talking about?....and who made your batteries anyway? I thought u made em!

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 02 2013 4:05pm

Jonescg built Rod's batteries, which BTW, are a work of beauty.

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Dec 06 2013 9:20pm

Rix wrote:Jonescg built Rod's batteries, which BTW, are a work of beauty.
really love the crazy amp specifications but HPC saying those are hobby packs NOT designed for long life.....HPC only gives a 65 amp rating (peak or continuous? do not know) but they are several pounds lighter...hopefully their new lithium magnesium nickel colbalt batteries are better than the lipos they put in the first time!....if not,I will be bitching about it on here! :evil: boeing is using lithium colbalt on some applications so it must be good....new work at MIT looks like lithium air batteries with 3 times the range may be here in a few years (yes they have been saying that for a long time but it may finally be true):

http://www.gizmag.com/m13-virus-electro ... ery/29791/

not sure if I already posted that....
Last edited by korpin on Dec 10 2013 10:23am, edited 1 time in total.

korpin   10 kW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by korpin » Dec 06 2013 9:24pm

korpin wrote:
Rix wrote:Jonescg built Rod's batteries, which BTW, are a work of beauty.
really love the crazy amp specifications but HPC saying those are hobby packs NOT designed for long life.....HPC only gives a 65 amp rating (peak or continuous? do not know) but they are several pounds lighter...hopefully their new lithium magnesium nickel colbalt batteries are better than the lipos they put in the first time!....if not,I will be bitching about it on here! :evil: boeing is using lithium colbalt on some applications so it must be good....new work at MIT looks like lithium air batteries with 3 times the range may be here in a few years (yes they have been saying that for a long time but it may finally be true):

http://www.gizmag.com/m13-virus-electro ... ery/29791/

not sure if I already posted that....

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 06 2013 10:26pm

korpin wrote:
Rix wrote:Jonescg built Rod's batteries, which BTW, are a work of beauty.
really love the crazy amp specifications but HPC saying those are hobby packs NOT designed for long life.....HPC only gives a 65 amp rating (peak or continuous? do not know) but they are several pounds lighter...hopefully their new lithium magnesium nickel colbalt batteries are better than the lipos they put in the first time!....if not,I will be bitching about it on here! :evil: boeing is using lithium colbalt on some applications so it must be good....new work at MIT looks like lithium air batteries with 5 times the range may be here in a few years (yes they have been saying that for a long time but it may finally be true):

http://www.gizmag.com/m13-virus-electro ... ery/29791/

not sure if I already posted that....
HPC is correct, Lipos typically have a life span of 300-500 cycles. I have spoke with guys that have over 700 cycles on their lipo packs, all have reported some serious voltage sag when they get above 500 cycles. But with HPC batteries, unless you ride every day, you wont get the 800 or so cycles they claim for the battery because their chemistry starts breaking down after 3 years.

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rodney64 » Dec 09 2013 7:03am

Image


Just relocated my controller to the front of the frame.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

Post by Rix » Dec 09 2013 10:07am

You will see now that you can start running some serious amps through it and have not dramas at all. Start off with 70 amps for an even 7KW. Then move it up to 100amps, If you are like me, your smile grows in proportion :D :mrgreen: :twisted: with increased acceleration.

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