N!cos 1st ebike build

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N!co   10 W

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N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 20 2012 8:13am

A few weeks ago i had the chance to ride a (eu legal) ebike. It confirmed what i always thought, its great but just a tad too slow @ 25kph! Commuting to work is now done by car. I tried a few times on a normal bike, but its just a bit too long, 20 km round trip.

I searched a bit on the interweb and found this forum. So after a lot of reading i got a bit of an idea what i wanted and what it would cost and decided to go for it.

At this moment a 12Fet Lyen & some stuff is on its way, and this is what i already gathered at the moment:

Image
Clyte HS3540 second hand.
Ping 36V/15Ah.
speedict.
Clyte frame bag.
Fuse, main-switch, 6mm2 wire, shrink-tube and connector-blocks.
Already made a holder for the battery that will be bolted onto the frame through the bottom of the frame bag.

This is the secondhand bike i bought:
Image

Will be continued...

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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by MattyCiii » Jul 21 2012 8:21pm

Nice bike. Those are Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes front and rear, yes? You can splice an e-brake cutoff switch into the brake line.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

Trackman417   10 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Trackman417 » Jul 21 2012 8:36pm

Starting off the right way 8) Love it!
However i would have went for the H3525 and volted it up accordingly. It would consume less power on average an heat up slower. Since it uses less power you can go much farther at the same speed. I got the same motor you did and now I am regretting getting the higher speed wind over the lower speed wind. :(
My $.02 right there :D
Have fun with your build by the way, look forward for updates!
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N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 22 2012 3:10pm

MattyCiii wrote:Nice bike. Those are Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes front and rear, yes? You can splice an e-brake cutoff switch into the brake line.
Yes, exactly those type brakes! I didn't even know hydraulic rim brakes existed! I found those hydraulic switches, that seems to me the neatest solution. Now i have to find out how i can fill and get the air out of the system. I know my way around cars and motorbikes, pedalbikes is new for me...
Trackman417 wrote:Starting off the right way 8) Love it!
However i would have went for the H3525 and volted it up accordingly. It would consume less power on average an heat up slower. Since it uses less power you can go much farther at the same speed. I got the same motor you did and now I am regretting getting the higher speed wind over the lower speed wind. :(
My $.02 right there :D
Have fun with your build by the way, look forward for updates!
I was thorn between those 2 motors. I agree the high torque version would also be a sensible option. As the topic says, its my first build, you got to start somewhere.
I am even thinking now of 2 ebikes, a highspeed/offroad bike, and a sensible commuter...

N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 22 2012 3:17pm

I have just test fitted the battery. You cant see it, but there is plenty of room for the shock:

Image

And for the pedals:
Image

This will all be packed in a frame bag.

electr0n   1 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by electr0n » Jul 22 2012 5:36pm

Looks good. I think the HS3540 is a good choice to start with, specially if you got a good deal second hand. I don't think there would be a real big difference between the HT3525 and the HS3540 winding in terms of efficiency, if you run them at different voltages to give close to the same top speed. Going a given speed will always take x amount of watts regardless of winding type.

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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by MattyCiii » Jul 22 2012 5:55pm

N!co wrote:MattyCiii wrote:
Nice bike. Those are Magura HS33 hydraulic rim brakes front and rear, yes? You can splice an e-brake cutoff switch into the brake line.

Yes, exactly those type brakes! I didn't even know hydraulic rim brakes existed! I found those hydraulic switches, that seems to me the neatest solution. Now i have to find out how i can fill and get the air out of the system. I know my way around cars and motorbikes, pedalbikes is new for me...
I installed eBrake switches about a month ago. I bought the kit mentioned here (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84815) for like $28 delivered. Used a sharp razor to cut the brake line. Leave at least 3" of line from the end (I put the brake sensor near the lever, since I'll be plugging it into the Cycle Analyst). Less than 3" will make it impossible to bleed.

If the brakes are new enough, the Magura bleed video is wrong. I had to google around a lot to find how to bleed at the lever. Something about loosening the lever/brake line interface three full turns to allow the bleed valve to pass fluid. Wish I kept the link...
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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boppinbob   1 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by boppinbob » Jul 22 2012 6:37pm

However i would have went for the H3525 and volted it up accordingly. It would consume less power on average an heat up slower. Since it uses less power you can go much farther at the same speed.
I agree. I got the HS and wished I'd gotten the HT with 20" rim. I understand things a bit more than my first few months of e-biking. Experience does pay off. Especially when you get it from the school of hard knocks.
Project bike-Genesis v2100, Crystalyte HS 3540 with 72v40A controller and four 5s8Ah zippy lipos in series.

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veloman   1 GW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by veloman » Jul 22 2012 11:12pm

Nice battery mount.

Let's see your rear dropouts, torque arms? I know that frame is tricky to mount a hub motor in, very small dropouts.
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N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 23 2012 6:52am

The wheel is not mounted yet. I'm still fixing the wires, some of the isolation was damaged.
Yes, dropouts are very skinny. Luckily i have access to a metal workshop with machines and material. Plan is to make some beefy torque plates/arms.

N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 28 2012 9:52am

Wheel is in, controller has arrived. Battery is in the bag now. Still busy with the wiring:

Image

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Ykick   100 GW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Ykick » Jul 28 2012 9:58am

Good choices! Close ups of your torque plates would help others, if you please?

You're gonna like it...

EDIT - oops, just noticed the controller orientation. Many of us keep the wire end pointing downward. If you never ride Rain, it probably won't matter. It might not even matter if you ride Rain but most agree that allowing for water to drain out of any potential opening is better than water draining in. Since you've got a small size controller package have you considered behind the seat post? That's where I mount mine, wires down, of course.
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N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 28 2012 10:03am

And the wheel is spinning:

Image

Still a lot to do, tyres, new chain, friction shifter for rear, neaten the wiring, ad PAS, make controller waterproof.

And not to forget, make the torque plates! I don't know yet exactly how, but it will be something that has to be clamped on the axle.

EDIT: I am not planning to go out in the rain, but you never know. I like the place of the controller how it is now, but water is certainly one of my concerns.

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Ykick   100 GW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Ykick » Jul 28 2012 10:17am

I've gotta bike using that controller location and it's fine, wires down. Only caveat is to be sure the front tire can't touch at maximum suspension compression.

Welcome to ES, enjoy your eBike!
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

- Frank Sinatra

N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 28 2012 1:22pm

Controller with wires down could still be possible... i will look into this, thanks!

Trackman417   10 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Trackman417 » Jul 28 2012 2:38pm

N!co wrote:Wheel is in, controller has arrived. Battery is in the bag now. Still busy with the wiring:

Image
Which frame bag is that? Crystalyte or Falcon EV?
Great progress! You are going much faster than my build.
Doesnt getting the motor spinning for the first time make you that much more pumped to just get it on the road!? :mrgreen:
K2 Sidewinder
H4065 36 mph
20s2p 10aH lipo battery pack
If it didn't kill you, it just built your character.
You know your bike is powerful when even you, the builder, can't control it.
Customer 00001 at our very own Bigmooses online store http://mtg-technologies.com/zencart/ Great guy, great products.

N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Jul 29 2012 6:24am

Framebag is a crystalyte, and its great! It is heavy quality, has 2 openings for wiring, and even a build in ignition key switch with wiring!

Yeah, can't wait for the first real testrun! :D

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Bronko   1 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Bronko » Aug 01 2012 11:25pm

Quick thought what about putting the controller in the frame bag with the battery if there's space?

N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Aug 02 2012 12:41am

Yeah, that was my first idea. But then i read stories of controllers overheating inside bags and there is hardly space for it now.

But i already lengthen the cables of the controller, this weekend i can mount it "wires down".

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Bronko   1 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Bronko » Aug 03 2012 11:07am

Ya the overheating depends on how how hard you "push it". I have used that controller with a ping 36v 10ah inside a battery bag but that was for my girlfriends bike and she is no racer. Wires down for sure. Why didn't you go with the crystalyte 12 fet controller? Just wondering.

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Aug 05 2012 4:07am

There was much more info about the Lyen/infineon controllers, thats the reason.

After lengthening the wiring of the controller i connected it again for a second test, now with the speedict connected. I was allready thinking the motor made too much noise, but then i saw a no load current of more than 20A!!! and a max. wheel speed of 30km/h. After a bit of reading here i concluded the fase/hall connections could still be wrong.
So after a few tries i have now a super silent motor, no load @ WOT of 2,5A and a wheelspeed of 50km/h! :D
Cant wait to get it running on the road, but still waiting on the tyres.

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Aug 05 2012 2:31pm

OK, f#ck the new road tyres, i've put the old worn knobby on the rear wheel! Test drive was great!!! :lol: Very smooth acceleration, even from standstill without pedaling. Very fast to 35km/h, and then creeping up to 40+. This is even more than i hoped for! Controller is limited at 20A batt / 50A fase. Motor stays cold, controller hardly warms up.

BTW, this is the torque arm, hex. bolt goes through existing hole in dropout. No torq arm on the gear side yet, but there will i mount one from Lyen.

Image

Image

N!co   10 W

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Aug 21 2012 10:46am

Riding this ebike is great!! Used it for commuting a few times allready and some other trips. Cant keep myself from laughing when i overtake mopeds :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Its almost finished now i guess:
Image

Well, some things left to do; mount second torq arm, make controller black, replace white tyraps with black ones, connect speed switch, connect pas and throttle to speedict...

Concluding, it was a bit of a guess to invest this kind of money when you don't really know if it all works out, but i'm glad i did it!

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by N!co » Oct 09 2012 12:52am

Update: 600km commuting, no problems. I ditched the skinny continental slick for a pair maxxis hookworms. The ride is much better now. It is a fully suspension but the hookworm take the bad roadsurface much better and i can corner with much more confidence.
Today i rode with a 6fet keywin controller inside the bag. It gets a bit warm at 20A. I want to upgrade it with some proper Fets to keep the heat down.
No controller in sight, better for stealth:

Image

If i can get my hands on a cheap hubmotor that will do 35km/h @ 36V it will even be more stealth, and fast enough for commuting.

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Timma2500   1 kW

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Re: N!cos 1st ebike build

Post by Timma2500 » Oct 09 2012 10:28am

Thats a neat and stealthy commuter :)

Depending on your definition of cheap, a geared 8 or 10 turn mac motor is alot smaller than a HS, freewheels nicely and would meet your speed requirement (26" rim).
On 36v / 20a, a mac might be a bit more lively than a HS too :wink:


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Norco Aline / carbon fibre frame mod / 12t Mac / 12fet / 23kg

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