E-Trike Project

G'day All

I have been lurking about the forum for a month or two now gathering information for my own e-bike build, a BIG thanks to several members that have been extremely helpful I thought now i have most of the info together I would start this thread so others may possibly have suggestions that might benefit the build

I plane to construct a custom frame, a trike frame, I am disabled (in-complete paraplegic) thus your standard two wheel bike isn't a possibility, pedals on this build will also be absent (i had originally planned on pedals but on further thought well.... ) So interest might be lost by alot due to this never the less we shall push on I guess you could call this my own custom version of a mobility scooter as we often see the elderly getting about in...although im not that old (39)

Thus far I have penciled a design (not to scale) on paper, apologies i don't have the skillz for autocad, anywayz...the proposed frame/drivetrain design-->



I was after a 'pro/stock' look, a lower seat height is required so as transferring from my wheelchair to the trike isn't a major issue. The frame will be constructed from thin walled mild steel pipe ranging from ~50mm to 25mm diameter (wall thickness ~1.5) I have yet to purchase all the piping required that will happen this week.

Front forks will also be custom made-->



Using the following plans

Electrics.

I have ordered the following from TNC Scooters

1000W Motor - 48 Volts (Model: MY1020)
11 Tooth Dual-D-bore Sprocket For #25 Chain
80 Tooth Sprocket for #25 Chain
48V Controller (Model LB37) Yi-Yun Brand Controller
Brake Leaver with Brake Switch
#25 Chain (70 Links)
2 Wire Ignition Assembly
Twist Throttle Cable (Hall Effect)

(and few additional components as spares)

From Cycle US The following will be oredered-->

2 x 20 inch x 4inch wide rims (had planned on steel 20's but they seem to have been removed from the list on the site ;-S (will email and see if they are still available.) along with 2 x tyres and trike hubs



Front wheel/tyre combo will be of the 20x 3inch variety sourced locally.

Powering the 1000watt motor will be four 12 volt 17aH SLA batteries. down the track i will go with the newer technology but due to cost (im on a disability pension) to get up and running SLA will be used The trike will be used predominantly for local runs on the bike path/footpath to the shops (approx 1km away) and longer runs to larger shopping center (and local pub hehe) some 3 kms away so the need for huge distance isn't of a big concern at this point. What is is hill climbing ability i live in a VERY hilly area. FYI it will be my only form of transportation, currently i wheel everywhere or catch taxi.

I have already purchased a 130amp mig welder ( i was a welder before my accident) and a pipe bender (awaiting delivery) to construct the trike frame. I have a pretty well equipped workshop at my home. This build will be a somewhat lengthy affai, that said i am hoping to have the trike complete (ridable maybe not prepped and painted) within 3 months.

OK..think that is about it for now shall post updates as the construction progresses

I would appreciate/encourage any constructive criticisms by members and thank those who took the time to read this thread

Kim

Good work Aussie, the frame looks awesome and I love your choice of rear rims and tyres, those low profiles look very cool.
I think maybe we should catch up and have a chat. PM me if you're keen.
Cheers,
Matt.

Interesting project, Kim. I'm looking forward to seeing this progress.

Is the Driveline view from below or above?

1000w said:

I think maybe we should catch up and have a chat. PM me if you're keen.
Cheers,
Matt.

Click to expand...

Thanks Matt and yeah always keen for a chat, shall drop you a pm

Miles said:

Is the Driveline view from below or above?

Click to expand...

Yes mate it is (obviously rough) but i think you guyz get the idea ... 1000 watt motor with ~11 tooth cog #25 chain to a 80 tooth cog (will fabricate a mount on the 3 speed hub so as the 80 tooth sprocket bolts directly to the hub...im hoping the Shimano 3 speed hub i bought last week will arrive in a few days) the original 3 speed cog will have a chain to the rear axel which will drive one of the rear wheels only.

Kim,

As we talked before, I think you may need to take the motor drive to the existing input point on the 3 speed and take the drive to the wheel from a sprocket mounted on the hub gear shell. I may be wrong, but I think it might be problematic to back-drive these hub gears. Certainly worth testing first, anyway...

Miles said:

Kim,

As we talked before, I think you may need to take the motor drive to the existing input point on the 3 speed and take the drive to the wheel from a sprocket mounted on the hub gear shell. I may be wrong, but I think it might be problematic to back-drive these hub gears. Certainly worth testing first, anyway...

Click to expand...

ahhh i got your initial info arse about mate LoL Originally i was going to place the large sprocket next to the original (similar to how 1000watt has done his) :-S No biggy and no need to change the design alot

EDIT:

I did a quick Paint diagram to show how i wished to do it to make 100% sure i am on the same page -->



The s3 speed trike hubs at Cycle US have the two sprockets like i have drawn (albeit to sprockets of the same tooth count) one goes to the fron sprocket on the crank and the the drives rear wheels)

It may work that way and it makes more sense from a fabrication point of view. The load will work in either direction, I'm just worried about the gear changing mechanism, particularly on the Shimano.

Anyway, give it a test: Shove the axle in a vice and run it both ways, by hand, to check that it changes gear without problems, under load.

I wasn't clear, from your diagram, what was connected to what, on the hub.

As long as one of the sprockets is fixed direct to the shell, it will work, doesn't matter which side it's mounted, from that point of view.

Looking at the small photo here - http://www.choppersus.com/store/product/771/Trike-3-Speed-Drive-Train-Kit/ - you can just about make out that the larger sprocket is attached to the hub shell. For a pedal drive, you are gearing up rather than down (as you are for electric drive), so that means that they are indeed using the sprocket fixed to the shell to drive the rear wheel.

Sorry if I confused you.

Sounds like a neat project Aussie...just curious I know for bicycles there is a 200W limit in Oz but for a disabled trike is there any limit...? 1000W should pull that along nicely as long as you keep it lightish and are you goning to have it so you wheel your chair straight in (on ramp) or can you fold it up and place it on a rack..what about headlight incase you leave the local establishment a little late...blinkers etc..??.anyway sounds interesting keep the posts coming so we can see the project unfold.. all the best from Sydney.. Farang :wink:

I'm with ya now miles Ill have to see how i can attach the original sprocket that comes on the hub to the hub housing when it arrives in a few days. Modifying the large sprocket to fit the hub will be an easier job, 1000watt has done this neatly on his cruiser i think i will probably take a similar approach cheers for the input mate much appreciated

faranglaw said:

Sounds like a neat project Aussie...just curious I know for bicycles there is a 200W limit in Oz but for a disabled trike is there any limit...? 1000W should pull that along nicely as long as you keep it lightish and are you goning to have it so you wheel your chair straight in (on ramp) or can you fold it up and place it on a rack..what about headlight incase you leave the local establishment a little late...blinkers etc..??.anyway sounds interesting keep the posts coming so we can see the project unfold.. all the best from Sydney.. Farang :wink:

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haha yes i would like to know about the watt limit to buddy hehe I seem to recall i saw a mobility scooter motor used on something it was in the 500 watt range for memory. I'm basically hoping not to attract any attention from the local police up here, If ii do the motor will have miraculously been pulled from a mobility scooter! hehe it wont be visible when the trike is complete either so its size wont be such a 'give away' i guess...I plan to fabricate a housing from 1.5mm aluminium that will contain the batteries controller and motor, additionally i will be on the road only when crossing it and unless on the 'back road (footpaths)" will keep the speed down for saftely/police reasons, i simply feel i must have the larger size motor, 200watt wouldnt move my left arm let alone the rest of me plus my sport chair LoL... As for the wheelchair, im in two minds atm and will wait and see , initially i planned to make a solid towing bar that would simply and quickly attach to the rear swing arm of the trike suspending the front castor wheels off the ground, i have also pondered draging the chair up onto the rear of the trike, i think when the frame is made it will become a little more 'clear' if this will be possible or not. The chair itself isn't the 'folding' variety though, it has quick release wheels (push the inner button of the hub they pull off) and the back rest folds down only) Thankfully the wheelchair i have is reasonably lightweight. HAHA and yes the trike will definitely have front and rear tail light on it i wont go so far as having blinkers however
Shall definitely keep the posts coming when fabrication starts in coming days, thanks for the well wishes mate

Kim

Hi Kim,

I have done a DF hybrid bike and a tadpole trike using #25 chain drive at the bottom bracket. There is a 90t Curry scooter sprocket

http://www.electricscooterparts.com/sprockets.html (scroll down)

if you need to gear down more, which is what I used but had a smaller motor than you. Make sure you get heavy duty #25 chain, it is much stronger and is usually designated as #25H.
Good luck with your project, an exercise in frustration in the construction but oh the Ebike grin when it all comes together.

J Barrie Wilkinson said:

Hi Kim,

I have done a DF hybrid bike and a tadpole trike using #25 chain drive at the bottom bracket. There is a 90t Curry scooter sprocket

http://www.electricscooterparts.com/sprockets.html (scroll down)

if you need to gear down more, which is what I used but had a smaller motor than you. Make sure you get heavy duty #25 chain, it is much stronger and is usually designated as #25H.
Good luck with your project, an exercise in frustration in the construction but oh the Ebike grin when it all comes together.

Click to expand...

Cheers for the info there mate, I do actually have electric scooter parts bookmarked and originally was going to get the elctrics from them, i then was given the TNC link (thankyou safe saved me a packet of money ) and their prices were much more attractive, I did however want one of the shockies from electric scooter parts until i was quoted $US127 for delivery, suffice to say i didnt get the shocky LoL... TNC charged me 44 for all the parts I ordered from them Will keep them in mind though if a bigger cog is required I have ordered a #25 chain from TNC scooters (a couple of 72 link lengths of it actually and a chain breaker to adjust to size, i am not aware if it is of the heavy duty variety however? This is the chain info-->

#25 Chain (70 Links)
Motor Parts - 106001
Shipping Weight: 0.5 lbs.
Chain is 17-1/2'' long.
#25 chain has a 1/4'' spacing between each link and is approximately 1/4'' wide.

might be an idea to add a few links and the chain break too the onboard tool kit along with puncture repair kit i guess, last thing i need is breaking down in my area theres zero chance of me moving this creation up a hill back to my garage :-S

As for the frustration in construction i know what your getting at there LoL Also am familiar with the feeling when a job is completed, nothing like it imo

Thankyou for your input mate much appreciated

The postie dropped of the Shimano 3 speed hub i won off ebay last week so i promptly stripped it down for a looksee.



Once cleaned off and the few decades of grease and grim were cleaned off it came up well, looks to be in very good condition too

Miles I soon found that the original sprocket (once the 3 'lugs') were ground off fits snuggly over the external end of the hub (opposite end to where it is originally) I shall by another to fasten the larger sprocket to ala how 100watt did his. Anywayz...i do have a dilemma, I have the hub stripped as far as can been seen in above pics but i need to get the end off, i circled the recess where i presume a tool fits to unscrew the end BUT i want to know which way the thread goes, i assume it would be a anti clockwise to undo? I did put it in the vise and give it a few taps, it didn't budge and without knowing if i'm tightening or loosening it i didnt want to apply more force I don't want to attempt welding the sprocket onto the end of the hub before stripping the rest of the internals as its going to heat up ALOT with the mig...

If anyone could offfer some insight i would be appreciative...the blown up plans i managed to find on the net dont give details on thread direction etc

Thanks in advance

Kim

Nice pix AJ,

FWIW, my ancient Sturmey opens anti-clockwise.

Rather than use a punch, I made two "keys" that fit in the slots by flattening nails with a hammer... I could then use a pipe-wrench to remove the top race. (The wrench could bite onto the keys, holding them in place and not slip on the hardened cover.) "Ghetto-Spanner", if you will.

HTH

Lots of useful info on hub gears here: http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/

TylerDurden said:

Nice pix AJ,

FWIW, my ancient Sturmey opens anti-clockwise.

Rather than use a punch, I made two "keys" that fit in the slots by flattening nails with a hammer... I could then use a pipe-wrench to remove the top race. (The wrench could bite onto the keys, holding them in place and not slip on the hardened cover.) "Ghetto-Spanner", if you will.

HTH

Click to expand...

Cheers TD Sounds like a plan shall knock up a ghetto spanner tomorrow morning and see how i get on, cheers Miles shall also have a geko at that site see what i can dig up ...shall report back tomorrow...

Cheers

Kim

You could always send an email to Marco with your question...

Miles said:

You could always send an email to Marco with your question...

Click to expand...

Yes that is probably going to be the case for the following issue i neglected to post yesterday evening. There are to small 'pins' that dropped out from the hub when i was disassembling it, they are showing on the exploded diagram where they go BUT what is not showing is their orientation, i have a picture to email Marco now to see if he can enlighten me-->



I am assuming these are the pins that do the gear shifting? the large rod that slides inside the axle pushes against these shifting the gears? iI'm also assuming to get these back in properly it has to be done with the hub full stripped? If anyone has any insight please do let me know Shall shoot off an email to Marco now see if i can get a quick reply back

Cheers again for link Miles

Kim

EDIT: Courier just dropped my bender off ::spins in circles:: I have two donor bike frames promised to me this Thursday Constructions is imminent

This looks like a great project!

I love what you are doing with this.

One thought, the chrome will make welding a pain. You will need to grind the chrome off. Or you could screw the sprocket to the spoke holes?

Keep the updates coming.

Matt

recumpence said:

This looks like a great project!

I love what you are doing with this.

One thought, the chrome will make welding a pain. You will need to grind the chrome off. Or you could screw the sprocket to the spoke holes?

Keep the updates coming.

Matt

Click to expand...

Cheers matt I wont actually be welding to the chrome there is approx an inch gap from the chrome hub to where the sprocket slides onto and a tapper starts stopping the sprocket from even reaching the chrome area on the opposite side of the hub where i will be welding it, its a tight fit i literally had to tap it on with a hammer when i first ground the little lugs off, i since sanded it so it slides on lil easier now. Shall defiantly keep all those interested updated

I am about to call the local bike shop now and see if he has the tool to remove the offending part, i simply cant budge it, my vise grips wont extend quite long enough to try the filed nails ghetto tool trick cleverly suggested by Mr Tylerdurden I also haven't received a reply back from marco regarding these pin orientations again hopefully local bike store owner will be able to shed some light on the problem also. I have my two donor bikes arriving tomorrow so frame construction (and a ghetto style jig for it) will begin then also...

Cheers for the interest matt

Kim

Me 'Pap used to say: "Don't get violent, get a bigger hammer".

haha "thats not a knife...this is a knife" (hope you seen the movie Crocodile Dundee or you wont get that joke) LoL I'm the Aussie though i'm meant to be flashing the big 'weapon'



As you can see its just that little bit to small to get a good grip on the hub without even sliding in the filled down metal for the grips to clamp on... :-(

I just got off the phone with the local bike shop, no definite answer from the wiminez that i spoke to, her hubby is the bike mechanic and wasn't in the shop at the time, she was confident though he had the tools so i called a taxi and am awaiting its arrival (don't feel in the mood to wheel 3km uphil in the pouring rain today LoL)

Kim

I am excited to see a project with some real potential made by someone who will be using it for something other than recreation.

I think E-bike technology is really well suited for use by individuals with physical limitations. So, I am very interested to watch this build.

Matt

I agree.

Come on, Aussie - over 10 hours since the last update...

Miles said:

I agree.

Come on, Aussie - over 10 hours since the last update...

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HAHA sorry fellas, i been at the mercy of my mate who was getting me some donor bikes to hack into for the headset and re-cycling of the frames tubing. He was meant to have them Thursday night for me but only managed to make it up 30 minutes ago to drop these off for me to use--->



His very good friend owns a scrap metal re-cycling company they get dozens of bikes through the place every week...these were all free

Should keep me going for awhile, one of the mountain bikes is aluminum the rest are mild steel

Shall have some trike frame progress shots in coming days fellas...

Kim