GIANT DH COMP & K2 thousand

here it beguin, from a tropical french island , a dream and some students...far away from many suppliers...



any help from any sides would be welcome from Oz to Us and Asian :wink:

saw you post in H's thread

holy hell someone from reunion! (Saint Dennis?)

Amusingly enough I have to ship stuff there after xmas, you in need of parts for your build

yeah, work is in progress, I'm in hurry so priority to buying all the stuffs until the end of january for my students ...

just buying 6 8000mAh LIPO from HK 1 by 1 to get the lowest shipping costs, maybe avoiding customs services and adding all the extra you know we need =) ,2 more left to buy ...
getting stuffs overthere is a challenge by it self !

what are you shipping, I need a controler , CA and spacers...I'm in ST LEU, WC surfing and sharking spot =) ...

it is the view of my appartement :wink:

I want to purchase a CA, but I don't know which one to get...

I got a Crystalite motor,
I want to put 60A continous and 100/120A peak, running a 20S 2P in 30C 5S 8000Mah batteries...

I don't know if I need the CA-DP, DPS or the CA-HC for the Amp I want to put...

should I take the CA V3, what could be the benefit ?
my crystalite motor (HS4065) got a temperature wire to the motor, is, the CAV3 able to connect to it ?

I show you the GT...

after painting / bottom bracket changed/ first 3D print proto for dropsouts

the fork...checking...cheap but a hell of work and slice spring quest...done

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29701432/ebike/DSC01309.jpg
the HS4065 and few toys (did I mention that I got it there in 5 days, misrouted and that next they wanted to charge Kenny for 2000$ of extra charge shipping rules to Reunion...a whole challenge by itself...

offset and spacers troubles...usual...solved

and the K2 000maH which will come next will a full steel and carbon story...bought 200$ 98 vintage...(fork has been tested before using on the GIANT on the DH tracks of the MEGAVALANCHE REUNION :
http://videos.mtb-news.de/videos/view/24562
http://www.zapiks.fr/mega-reunion-nico-la-reco-20.html

dan974 said:

I don't know if I need the CA-DP, DPS or the CA-HC for the Amp I want to put...should I take the CA V3, what could be the benefit ?
my crystalite motor (HS4065) got a temperature wire to the motor, is, the CAV3 able to connect to it ?

Click to expand...

1. i don't think you need the CA-HC for < 100V
2. re CA-DP vs DPS, does your controller have a CA connector? if you got a lyen controller, i would recommend the DP, but with other controllers, it maybe easiest to wire the speed magnet sensor to the front wheel than figuring how the controller timing works. but check other builds with that kit, like sardini for example. but he uses xlyte display.. hmm
3. i think that motor has a sensor that is compatible with the CAV3, such that when properly connected (and modified?) the CA will slow the motor when it gets too hot.

Time to read up, Professor: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

dan974 said:

first 3D print proto for dropsouts

Click to expand...

you're not planning on using a plastic composite dropout, are you? very creative, but that's not a part of the bike i'd take chances with. did you already cut the axle hole? you may still be able to use one of these very successful adapters, which may dh comp and easy conversion now: Giant DH Comp Drop Out adapters and conversion

you may have noticed that the rear triangle has a big offset. i see you have a tiny freewheel in there. since you have the space - indeed, you may need to FILL the space - i suggest you get a7sp freewheel with an 11tooth cog. this will let you pedal @ 30 mph with a 44T in the front. you will need a spacer as well, so get that too, as you noticed! this is not a cassette. it's a freewheel, fyi.

if the wheel is still too offset, you can flip the magnet ring. do you know what i mean?? if not, you will find out soon enough!

good luck!

thks Gin I was just reading the CAV3 stuffs..

I v'e got 13mm offset...in the 24" rim I think I need to relaced it with diffrent spokes...don't no... or just reverse them from laced inside to lacedd outside but I'll probably need other spokes...which is a big deal overthere...do not know how to calculate lentgh and where to order... I think I need to open the motor to relaced it...ballring extraction...
I tough it was easier to make my own dropsout first 3D printed next laser cutted...as I do not want to cut the axel hole ! with the axel back rear and not below to avoid the chain touching on small 11 cranck ...and being able to put a 7speed freewheel...
I already got the spacers for the brake calipter and the freewheel , do you sthink I will have to put a big spacer behind the freewheel and hub motor to align it with the front crank set ? so in this case I need to relace...no choice...so flipping it to relace is this what you mean ?

great! you've got 24" rims. i think that's a good call w/ this motor, triangle and your terrain. you may still need to drill holes.

i don't think you need to relace, not yet anyway. my hs3540 motor has a bigger offset that than that one. cripes, i need to index my own thread. i can't find anything. i'm not sure if you've been following my saga, but i really wanted a top notch lace job in hs3540, so had ilia from ebikessf.com lace it up in a DH Psycho rim. but when i got it, the triangle offset caused the rim alone, w/o even a tire, to rub the frame. but the easy solution was to remove both sidecovers, push the stator out, flip it over, and put the sidecovers back on the way that they will fit. you may notice a wobble now, even though the motor was already trued, but that will only be cosmetic i think, as they will already have been tensionned properly.

you don't want to get new spokes and relace it if you can avoid it...

so the question for you, is that motor offset like the hs3540?

it doesn't hurt to try anyway. you should probably drill holes in the sidecovers anyway. and before you remove the sidecovers for the first time, make unique notches where each side meet the magnet ring, so later you can replace it in the exact spot. you could try marker but it will wipe off before you're done.

ok, i found this horribly narrated vid which might help a bit:
[youtube]SFIiPAsJC_E[/youtube]

other stuff here.

dan974 said:

I already got the spacers for the brake calipter and the freewheel , do you sthink I will have to put a big spacer behind the freewheel and hub motor to align it with the front crank set ? so in this case I need to relace...no choice...so flipping it to relace is this what you mean ?

Click to expand...

i'm not sure what you're asking... spacers for brake caliper are to align the calipers with disc, whereever it ends up, though you've only got a certain amount of range. spacer behind the freewheel? for some motors, certainly the hs3540, the freewheel spacer is not an option, it is a requirement. if you don't add one before screwing on the freewheel, your pedal action will tighten the freewheel until it freezes against the motor and my rastaman, it will no longer be free, aye.

as for the front chainring, you should not have a problem with the chain lining up - it's designed to move between those gears so a few mm either way won't matter. you may have an issue w/ chain rub on the chainstay on the smallest 11T cog, but some plastic type wrap on the chainstay ought to fix that.

thks for all this infos, your post is a library and inspired me, rode all but maybe missed some stuffs Gin :wink:

if someone want the GIANT Solidworks files updated, I spend a lot of time cleaning files , redesigning the files from bison_69 so the cad file fit perfectly to my real frame, and motor files ...can get evolution for thoses who know with by my point a more solid construction to evolve. but his work was a big big help to make engenering activites for my students.
did I mention that we plan to put a RFID key to go ON (not underskin for sure )

download here (UPDATED) : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29701432/ebike/LAST3.zip (will take 20min before available :wink: )


here the work in progress.




making holes is an option, I want to make carbon vented plate to push the flow inside of it by the freewhell side...as living in tropical island my goal is to get up before DOWNHILLS as you can wathc in the links I puted... :wink:

just wondering...

8000mAh 30C 40C busrt...240/320A ...If I take this kelly controller http://kellycontroller.com/keb72601x24v-72v280a6kw-bike-brushless-controller-regen-p-279.html

110A continuous / 280 burst would be nice but I'm wondering if the Kristopher Harness will fit... 5.5mm bullet are rated 120A and XT150 is rated 240A bullet 8mm 240A...

do you think I can put 280A burst in the XT150 and how much will handle the motor wires ?

Kelly is rated by max and continuous motor phase current. Battery current will never reach that high. Battery current will be about half of the motor phase current roughly so you more likely will see about 50A with maybe 120-150 peak battery amps. the 5.5 bullets and xt 150s are on par for this. Even for motor phase those connectors are more likely sufficent being that the kelly number are peak number and you would only see them when doing hot rod launches from a stand still after a motor begins the build speed the BEMF builds and the current need rapidly decays... for most motors but if you have a whore like the cro motor it can pull full battery and phase amps for most of its rpm range which would increase the need for tru continuous high amperage connections for the motor phase wires but the battery wires would still be in spec.

yo dan, i've been thinking about your project and you can start hating me now...

dan974 said:

do you think I can put 280A burst in the XT150 and how much will handle the motor wires ?

Click to expand...

@110A continuous, i think overheating the motor is a bigger concern... have you modeled the power in the simulator? with that power, my motor would overheat in 10 min:

the clyte 5303 overheats in 11min. the 5304 in 25 min, and the 5305 never. i'm not sure the hs40 is on there but i'd guess it overheats closer to 10 min than 30. not sure.

anyway, i see you have plans for cooling, but what kind of speeds/torque are you hoping for? for downhill/uphill, seems like a geared motor would be better.

i have plenty of experience w/ a similar heavy DD DH comp build and it's great as a lightweight electric motorcycle for the street, but it's not nimble or even powerful on hilly terrain. unless you work up an amazing cooling solution, you're gonna be sitting waiting for it to cool down.

which brings me back to the main question of what's the purpose of this build? speed or torque?

have you followed wayne's build? he started w/ xylte DD and likes it for speed on the street but he much prefers the geared MAC on tracks.

and as i thought about your design of the axle slot behind the frame, i started wondering about how the forces of a big landing would affect the bolt holes, etc. as you know, kiwi's design has the slot directly below the axle, and a flat shelf so that the force of drop is spread across the long wide flat bottom of the existing frame:

in your design, it looks like all the force of a drop will be against axle hole (where i assume you will have a bolt) and brake caliper mounting holes. and because the slot is further back, there will be turning action. that may be ok, but if the nut is tightened on the motor axle (blue arrow), it will necessarily pull that notched part out of where you want it wedged between the chainstays...

i'm no an engineer and could be totally wrong, but you might want to study it some more.

the plates are huge and thick, but the mounting points are all in a vertical line, so it seems they at least need bracing along the chainstay somewhere... (unless you put a 'shelf' on the bottom of the adapter to support the flat of the frame...)

My advice regardless of your education level background is don't try and hit it out the park on in your first round.

Best to get some time tweaking at Subaru levels before smashing out Ferrari numbers

Why are we feeding 110A into the simulator?

Playing around with simulator Im think 80-100A battery current and 180-220A Peak Motor Phase. I strongly consider getting one of methods 3 speed switches to keep this overheating in check and only use high or maximum power when necessary cause based on models of the closest similar motor and the power band this motor is going to draw current for a loooooong time before it ramps down. again my harness will be fine its the motor and the phase wires i would be worried about.More worried about hall sensors... and those frying from the heat. The heat issue is no joke. Last build I saturated and overheated a motor it less than 4-5 minutes and shorted two phases tunning about 5-6kw at 2/3 the amps(65A Battery 120A Phase) you are planning to run.

dan974 said:

thks for all this infos, your post is a library and inspired me, rode all but maybe missed some stuffs Gin :wink:

if someone want the GIANT Solidworks files updated, I spend a lot of time cleaning files , redesigning the files from bison_69 so the cad file fit perfectly to my real frame, and motor files ...can get evolution for thoses who know with by my point a more solid construction to evolve. but his work was a big big help to make engenering activites for my students.
did I mention that we plan to put a RFID key to go ON (not underskin for sure )

download here : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/29701432/ebike/LAST.zip (will take 20min before available :wink: )


here the work in progress.

making holes is an option, I want to make carbon vented plate to push the flow inside of it by the freewhell side...as living in tropical island my goal is to get up before DOWNHILLS as you can wathc in the links I puted... :wink:

Click to expand...

Excellent Solidworks skills there. Thank you so much for sharing your files. I can see there are 100's of hours of work in there. 8)

I was so excited to download these files only to find my 2010 Version of SolidWorks wouldnt open the files.

Hi, things are going fast,...,and it a pleasure to read comments:
kepler you can DL teh original files there : http://grabcad.com/library/bicycle-frame-giant-dh-comp-2004/files from bison69
mine are the last version of SOLIDWORKS 2012/2013 sorry I just jump from the 2006 to the 2013 to open bison's files...
GCinDCthis version of torque arm was just a first setup to check positions ...I would use another plate inside to use all the surface not just 10mm axel and brakes holes; sorry about that it was just to illustrate, I'll back on it next...
...to answer, I would love to be able to go uphills...pedalling is not an option as I'm use to it....if it's not possible even @low speed I would stay on the costal arear and take only "flat" forest loops :wink:

my goal is not to make a ferrari, to be clear, plugging a kit is like zero interest for me and my students, I'm a mechanical enginering teacher, the process students ar involved is about putting knowlegde together, prototyting, simulate, mesuring,...and learning the story that say that there is no problems but only solutions ...be sure that we are not going to put 60A continous soon, but I want the stuffs to be prepared to experiment this kind of power next steps without having to buy other stuffs...having a solid controller is more important for me than batteries as I do not want it to dead !

steam25 told me that he experiment High voltage with thos motors to get high torque and High speeds, he reach 60A continous , 120A peak without issue on flat even when it was 45°degrees outside (china...) but @ 100 V or +100V I got's shortcuts (motor+ stock Crystalite 50A 72V))
Hi will ask Hyena how much current is putting inside the 4065 as he is experimenting it know after the 4080...
christopher I definitly trust your harness, don't worry, I see with hyena for the hall sensors and phase wires, @the same time as I ordered the kelly controller on doc advice...too, I just received a mail from Justin saying that kelly controllers doesn't have an integrated shunt so I'll have to put one for it, and guess what the serie one added is 50A continous limited... :wink:
+ I will wire the temp wire to it (even if there's something to deal with resistor ...)and I bought a IR thermometer from Hobbyking too =) did I forget to mention that my rim is 24" ?

it seems that the CAV3 is able to deal with the 3level button...I don't understand why I'd rather use Methods's ones ...?

thanks to all I'm on the 31th now so it's time to charge batteries for tomorrow's night !

a Cyclone passed outside and one came back @ home (daughter) , by this time, dropouts work is in standby mode for a couple of days,

I received the controller with the cable for crystalite but I need to wire it again as M/F terminale is wrong even if I got both with it...
10 days from China 40$ shipping fedex, paypal bill photoshoped for customs services , not to give another xxx$ for taxes...

but I forgot to order the main contactor as kelly controller don't have an on/off contactor...

the charger with charge on balance port arrived 30 , regular mail, no taxes
http://dx.com/p/bc168-1-6s-8000ma-200w-high-precision-lcd-intellective-balance-charger-124483

missing stem for my second manitou travis fork that I payed 80$ arrived too,and the front halo contra 36mm/20mm axle 24" from UK Pinkbike buy and sell ...pretty cool lots of cheap stuffs impossible to find and 24" rims
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/


missing batteries from HK, and Cycle analyst + harness from christopher.

forget the connectors just hard wire it. Lol

Yep, it all adds up!

PS. I really love the use of engineering students in building your ebike!

yeah...it's summer's holiday now...and I have to get everything received in 15 days...as in 20 days I'll be out of school for 2 months (my ankle need to be fixed...I'm going to put a servo instead ) so I'll have to check avancement by skype meeting during project hours...they already spend hours and their time is limited to 72h and there's only 4 students on it (17/18 y old) so I have to prework stuffs cause they won't be able to do all the work but part of it and test and experiment...so it's about learning and teaching too and sharing ... endless-sphere spirit ?

stuffs keep arriving
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/
I put an ad as I found it pretty hard to get some 24" RIMS and tyres 24x3,+ tubes, and for who it could help they ship world wide for 30£ max or free if your order more than 200£...UK shop sent on DHL...

got the Halo contra 24x3 in fact it's just the white painting cause the main brand is DURO (Nylon ones) so I think it's the same as the Stealth's ones...the wildlife or the RAZORBAKC which is even older model, thinking that they bought and old stock of them for a cheap price before mono and e cycle where interested cause they now have no use in DH races...


and, as they just had one schalbe AV10D left I tell them to put one of each MAxxis and KEnda DH ones who will fit in the fatty without knowing the thickness...




1/ : like a regular tube weight maybe a bit more thick like 1mm
2/ : 1.5 mm thick, pretty heavy ! 420gr...
3/ before opening I tought :| there should be a second one in than box...same seize but quite heavy ! 2.25 mm thick ! feel like a whole tyre just the tube ! no way to put it in the back wheel and add another 1Kg into it ! I'll see if I need it next on volcano rocks riding =)

does anyone have personnal feedback to share about tube thickness on the hub wheel ? I was wondering the need of a DH tube or not ? particulary on rocky tracks !

and does anyone as a better main contactor than the EV200 doc recommanded one ? only 1.7W
should I take a 72V or a 84V for a 20s pack ? (20S*4.2=84V... would it work if it goes with 24S ?)
I don't know how it will work if the tension if below or over the nominal voltage ?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...&sid=7b4855f2d6022b627333d3231f401852#p635694
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kilovac-EV2...t=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item460bc0beac

http://www.cloudelectric.com/category-s/48.htm
http://kellycontroller.com/main-con...36.html (0.5A on 72V so I guess 36W in use ?)

can you really fit a 3" tire in the rear triangle? my 2.75 is pretty close, and consider you may have some dishing to do...

I'll check tomorrow, ...don't forget it's a 24" wheel ...and I 'm going to put the axel rear regarding kiwi adapters...

I wonder the need to flip the axle as you said as it looks like the shoulders next to the screw part of the axle are symetrical regarding it from the center of the hub so even if I do not open it I don't see what would be the benefit in my case...
maybe it's not the case for your 3500...the HS480/65 is wider than the 3500 series and not as the 5400/5300 I would say beetween..

GCinDC said:

can you really fit a 3" tire in the rear triangle? my 2.75 is pretty close, and consider you may have some dishing to do...

Click to expand...

is it your 2.75 ?