Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

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Ypedal   100 GW

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Ypedal » Aug 26 2013 5:40pm

I removed a few posts, please show some respect, someone lost a house, no need to be name calling on top of it.. bad enough situation already.
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Floont   1 kW

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Floont » Aug 26 2013 6:58pm

Ypedal wrote:I removed a few posts, please show some respect, someone lost a house, no need to be name calling on top of it.. bad enough situation already.
Thank you for the respect, Ypedal.

I'll get back in the hobby, but without LiPo, probably LiFePO4... Probably in a year or so...

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - BURNED
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by arkmundi » Aug 26 2013 7:18pm

Ypedal wrote:I removed a few posts, please show some respect, someone lost a house, no need to be name calling on top of it.. bad enough situation already.
It was not name calling, but practice calling!
Last edited by arkmundi on Aug 27 2013 3:22pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by jkbrigman » Aug 27 2013 2:21pm

Floont, you are among friends. You have taken a severe loss. And on top of that, you answered questions that help all of us. You have my heartfelt condolences on this terrible loss.

Don't leave ebiking. You can keep us on our toes and are now better prepared to educate the rest of us than almost anyone.
Last edited by jkbrigman on Aug 27 2013 7:37pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by slacker » Aug 27 2013 7:24pm

jkbrigman,well said and i also offer my condolence's and hope you stay with e-biking.stay strong floont and godspeed.

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by ejonesss » Aug 30 2013 9:25pm

sorry to hear about the fire

a suggestion: you dont need to get out of ebikes over this just get a lifepo4 battery witch will not burn it may smoke or vent but will not burn.
stuff for Even Newer 4 to 24-cell Battery Management System (BMS)
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Floont » Sep 01 2013 2:52pm

Thank you all for your thoughtfulness.

I will return to ebiking, but I shall not return to LiPo, ever.

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - BURNED
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by triggeraa » Sep 01 2013 3:38pm

Floont wrote:Thank you all for your thoughtfulness.

I will return to ebiking, but I shall not return to LiPo, ever.

FA
Some people cannot handle lipo. Need to follow basic common sense rules. Better for you to go to something tamer. Good luck.

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Byte » Sep 01 2013 4:22pm

What a story... :( I'm very sorry for you.

This makes me scared of my E-bike with LiPo's. I threat them very carefully, but I just hope they will never catch fire. I'm only 20 years old and my E-bike is located at my dad's wooden house... I always charge outside the house and keep an eye on it.

A question for everyone: When stalling my bike in the garage, would it help putting a big fire blanket over it or something similar if the LiPos catch fire? Just don't want that my Dad's house burns away because of my fault...

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Byte » Sep 01 2013 4:26pm

triggeraa wrote:
Floont wrote:Thank you all for your thoughtfulness.

I will return to ebiking, but I shall not return to LiPo, ever.

FA
Some people cannot handle lipo. Need to follow basic common sense rules. Better for you to go to something tamer. Good luck.
A little rude, isn't it? I handle my LiPo's with biggest care, got 4-5 year old LiPo's still running perfectly as new. However, just a very very very small mistake can cause a LiPo fire. I had a LiPo fire once, about 2 years ago, because I overlooked something... luckily this was in an RC car.

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by deffx » Sep 01 2013 5:14pm

Byte wrote:A question for everyone: When stalling my bike in the garage, would it help putting a big fire blanket over it or something similar if the LiPos catch fire? Just don't want that my Dad's house burns away because of my fault...
I would imagine it would help considerably and am wanting to do this also, it would help suffocate and contain the fire and direct it towards the ground, concrete?

I am not familiar with how good these blankets are though, lipo's burn pretty intensly

A smoke detector above the bike may be good to, giving you early warning, you may have time to get it outside. Most fires seem to occur when charging

My bikes kept away from the house in a shed but there is still alot of valuable stuff in there, i feel like i need to isolate the bike when charging

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Sep 01 2013 7:24pm

i was pondering, what if you have a fire sprinkler head that the sell at the depot hooked up to either house water or a tank.

fire starts/ sets off fire alarm/ turns a smoke detector relay on and timing relay(80$)/ turns a dish washer water solenoid on/ pressurizes system/ end of the sprinkler head melts off from heat/ after preset time of water, timing relay shut water off.

then it wont flood your house for hours and hours before you get home. maybe take the sprinkler head out of the system.

might not stop 1 but would stop the others from catching fire.

smokey- 20$
sprikler head and fittings-50$
furnace relay- 15$
timing relay 80$

just a brainstorm.
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by kfong » Sep 01 2013 7:49pm

You are better off smothering the fire before it even starts. A fire blanket with sand bag on top of the pack would be a better setup. You will get smoke damage that is also costly but at least the fire will be contained. I would like to see a video of someone putting out a large lipo pack with water. I'm not sure how effective it would be. Putting you packs in a fire safe area such as a metal file cabinet or metal garbage can be an effective way to prevent a fire. There are several long running thread on RC groups that discussed Lipo safety precautions. They have been using Lipo's much longer than the ebike community.

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Tinto » Sep 03 2013 6:03am

Posting since this thread has a fair bit of lipo fearing / endorsing traffic.
I charge / discharge my HK lipos in a liposack - http://www.liposack.com/products.htm

Products like this shouldn't make you complacent about keeping an eye on things, but seem to contain a mishap pretty well if you take a look at their survivors page.
http://www.liposack.com/Survivors/survivor.htm

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by pdf » Sep 03 2013 8:19am

Tinto wrote:Posting since this thread has a fair bit of lipo fearing / endorsing traffic.
I charge / discharge my HK lipos in a liposack - http://www.liposack.com/products.htm

Products like this shouldn't make you complacent about keeping an eye on things, but seem to contain a mishap pretty well if you take a look at their survivors page.
http://www.liposack.com/Survivors/survivor.htm

(No personal affiliation etc)
Certainly better than nothing, but three quick observations:
1) as far as I can tell, each of these lipo fires occurred when a balance charger was used. In one case, the charger mis-identified the pack but in the others, looks like it was simply a failed pack. And this is evidence from just one company selling Lipo bags. (EDIT: not implying balance chargers don't work. Just that the users were doing what is recommended, not screwing around.)
2) these packs are all pretty small by ebike standards. In one case, it looks like the bag barely contained the fire from a 4s 4500 mAhr pack. The fire scorched the wall even with the bag. If you use a bag, use one up to the task.
3) There was still a lot of smoke damage in some cases. Smoke inhalation is what kills most people in a fire.

I think this page is an excellent reminder; be careful LiPo folks.
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by amberwolf » Sep 03 2013 11:19am

How is your cat doing, Floont?

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Re: Monzilla

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Sep 03 2013 1:18pm

Floont wrote:
Stevil_Knevil wrote:Looks fun :D Good job, man..

..what kind of brakes? Also, where on the fork did you mount your panniers?
Avid BB5 mechanical brakes with oversize 203mm discs.

I custom fastened the front panniers to the front forks with U-bolts to a custom steel battery rack I purchased from Electric Rider. The top U-bolt is above where the caliper mounts come out of the forks, although these are not used, they make for an excellent battery mounting solution...
Image

FA
Really, VERY sorry for your loss, Floont. I can not help but wonder if the violent shocks and vibration that those packs were subjected to is at least partly to blame for your catastrophic failure - since they were mounted directly to an unsprung element of a 40+MPH eBike :roll:

Seems to me that mounting a pack from the lower triple clamp (sprung weight) would isolate them from most of that shaking about ..like a Tubus front rack ->
Image

Best of luck on your recovery!
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by e-biker » Sep 03 2013 6:36pm

Wow floont sorry to hear about your loss. I lost my first ebike to a lipo fire and I agree once they go there is no putting them out till they burn completely, The fire dept came out and tried with sand and it still burst back up when they started to put the burnt pack into a drum. I hope the best for your future plans and look forward to your seeing next build. keep in touch with us brother!
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by will_newton » Sep 04 2013 12:29pm

Floont wrote:
bowlofsalad wrote: Where were you when you realized things were on fire?
My wife heard a crackling sound in the garage and checked and saw the fire in the garage. There are no smoke detectors in the garage.
After reading this far along in the thread and watching folks argue battery chemistry and crappy Chinese electronics, I think there is no question as to how the fire was started. I will not presume to say what Floont's situation was at the time, it is possible that even if he been present, the situation could have been beyond his control, but I hope that folks will see that unattended charging can have unintended consequences. If the situation were a bit different, it's possible this could have been a thread about the loss of a bike instead of the loss of a house.

In an emergency situation, you just react by instinct and as time passes you will always second guess decisions made prior to and during the incident.

I have lost my house and most of my belongings to a flood and it was devastating (our entire neighborhood was destroyed by a freak flood). I also was working in a woodworking shop that caught fire and even though the nearby fire department saved most of the shop, we nearly lost the owner from smoke inhalation. So I have the deepest sympathy and empathy for Floont. I have been there and thankfully have made it through with scars that are just mental, not physical.

I think Floont is a lucky man and fortunate to have had enough warning to make it out alive with his family.
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Floont » Sep 04 2013 4:16pm

amberwolf wrote:How is your cat doing, Floont?
The cat has healed all of his mouth wounds due to smoke inhalation and has regrown the hair on his front paws to where it looks like a "crew cut". He is doing extraordinarily well. Thanks!

To others: Unattended charging is bad, especially with Lipo's. My next build will likely be with a safer chemistry such as LiFePo's

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - BURNED
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Hillhater » Sep 04 2013 7:49pm

Sorry floont, i only just noticed this situation.
I sincerely hope you and your family recover from this disaster quickly. Losing a home is very traumatic.
As a RC lipo user i am fully aware of the risks, but also concerned of that there is still a level of "unpredictability" to all things in life, even drinking a coffee !.... the trick is to be aware of those risks and "manage" them
but RC lipo is a risk that can/should be avoided if possible when fire containment cannot be guaranteed. ( storage bunker)
The real problem with RC lipo is not its flammability, but its price !
It simply the most cost effective source of lightweight, powerful battery's for ebikes.
If it cost twice as much, few people would use it.
Conversely, if the "safer" chemistry's were cheaper and more readily available, more ebikes would be using them.
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by jkbrigman » Sep 05 2013 6:05am

By the way Floont....thought I'd mention: Your Rear x5404 on full suspension Mongoose Blackcomb was a badass build man. It would be awesome for you to rise from the ashes with Headways or a LiMn chemistry.
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Floont » Sep 06 2013 11:42am

jkbrigman wrote:By the way Floont....thought I'd mention: Your Rear x5404 on full suspension Mongoose Blackcomb was a badass build man. It would be awesome for you to rise from the ashes with Headways or a LiMn chemistry.
Unfortunately, I had blown the x5404 hall sensors in it after taking the voltage to 147VDC. It was a screamer until that failed. Then I went back to the tried and true 125VDC on an x5304.

Now I just have a solidified pool of metal with a few pieces of rusted steel sitting in the ashes.

Headways are my most likely power source after I rebuild my house (and my bike).

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - BURNED
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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by Floont » Oct 06 2013 11:02am

What type of batteries are used in the Stealth Bomber?

Do they need balancing?

Are they safe from fire and the like?

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - BURNED
All my posts on this site are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License

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Re: Monzilla - BURNED IN LIPO FIRE AUGUST 11

Post by xenodius » Oct 06 2013 12:29pm

I'm pretty sure they use LiFePO4. But the frame is what's great :-) Ping packs should be very safe. I hope you are well now, Floont!

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