Norco Bomber 2kw build

Show off your E-bike creation here.
User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 7:11pm

Hi everybody, I want to post my build as thanks to everyone that has posted theirs which I shamelessly copied.

Mainly Timma2500's E-Tense build. I have read that thread atthe least 20 times.

Anyways I will post pics soon.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
jonescg   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3369
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by jonescg » Mar 17 2013 7:22pm

"THE" Bill Nye Science Guy? Welcome aboard!

Photos or it didn't happen!

User avatar
MattyCiii   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1367
Joined: May 05 2007 2:06pm
Location: Boston, MA, USA

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by MattyCiii » Mar 17 2013 7:25pm

jonescg wrote:"THE" Bill Nye Science Guy? Welcome aboard!

Photos or it didn't happen!
Indeed. Seriously, are you really THE Bill Nye?

That would be epic
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 7:34pm

new guy problem, can I directly upload or do I need to find a photo host?

ebike easy, internet difficult.

Science!!!! is that proof enough that im the real Bill Nye
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
MattyCiii   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1367
Joined: May 05 2007 2:06pm
Location: Boston, MA, USA

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by MattyCiii » Mar 17 2013 7:41pm

Search the forum there's a tutorial about how to post pix. I use Picasa, works well
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25658
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by amberwolf » Mar 17 2013 8:06pm

Bill Nye the science guy wrote:new guy problem, can I directly upload or do I need to find a photo host?
Forum Rules and Features

Science!!!! is that proof enough that im the real Bill Nye
No. :P What did you think of McKay? ;)

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 8:22pm

bomber1.jpg
bomber1.jpg (183.74 KiB) Viewed 4633 times
here is the early prototype. 100 1700mAh nicd cells in 2 packs charged with a 16 hour 200ma trickle charge. I believe the motor is an ezee 500watt gear drive and a 17 amp controller. very pokey but I caught the ebike bug when I rode it for its 5 km of range.

I had problems with that controller because it is a 60' phase and the motor is a 120' phase so time for an upgrade.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 8:46pm

I tuck taped all the batteries in and bought sheets of plexiglass, heat formed them and screwed the into the frame. front brake hooked up I just bought cheap cheap crap to get it going to see how it would work. Also changed controller to a 500w 48volt hui hong(still can't find an exact match for that one on the boards but its generic Chinese) doubling the power makes it much better. I don't know if anyone can see the hub motor, does anyone recognize that motor? I thought ezee 500w.

went for a couple ride on the single track trails around town and was blow away by how fun it was. it is just one big downhill out there, as fast as your eyes can take looking for roots and rocks to avoid. it also helps in the tight technical areas where normally you could not pedal or gear down quick enough to stay on the bike the low end grunt of the electric powers right through it.
bomber2.1.jpg
bomber2.1.jpg (128.38 KiB) Viewed 4635 times
Attachments
bomber2.jpg
bomber2.jpg (236.23 KiB) Viewed 362 times
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 9:42pm

bomber3.jpg
bomber3.jpg (121.8 KiB) Viewed 4634 times
So the range was pitiful with nicds and with my friends 10ah golden motor leaving me in the dust after 6km of trail riding and pedaling home I decided to redo the batteries. in hindsight I should have bought lipo but I went with nimh. but atleast I can charge them without being too worried about fire. so 8 packs of 15s 5ah wired in series 49cell x2 with charge harness to split them up.
bomber4.jpg
bomber4.jpg (122.9 KiB) Viewed 4634 times
bomberbatteries.jpg
bomberbatteries.jpg (124.72 KiB) Viewed 4634 times
bomberCA.jpg
bomberCA.jpg (115.81 KiB) Viewed 4634 times
bought a CA, what a wonderful piece of engineering that is. the people at ebikes really understand their target market and make the product reliable but give you the info to modify it to what you need. Now that I can see what is going on with the motor its time to spice up the controller. beefed up all solder traces put in 100 volt 660Mf caps instead of the 440Mf soldered the shunt just a wee bit. ran 12 gauge wires to the windings, tight squeeze in there.

it now draws 35amps with the shunt soldered. I will do a bit mor maybe 45-50amps but it gets exponentially more dangerous with the power and my twist throttle and my lack of wheelie control skills
bomberlights.jpg
bomberlights.jpg (107.37 KiB) Viewed 4634 times
bomberlights2.jpg
bomberlights2.jpg (72.17 KiB) Viewed 4634 times
I cheaped out on the lights for now 3.99 an two hose clamps each. removed one light for the CA but haven't used lights yet.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 10:33pm

Here is how I drove it before tear down

50km/h top speed, fast enough for me, I like the torque and light weight of the geared motor
bombersidepanels.jpg
bombersidepanels.jpg (92.76 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
bombersidepanel2.jpg
bombersidepanel2.jpg (88.85 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
Not really happy the way the plastic turned out, it cracks from the cold, it is a pain to remove to charge and then when I did a face plant on a snowy trail most of the plastic had cracked somewhere. So reading through all the projects on here gave me some options and I ripped it all apart again to build a battery tank style
teardown3.jpg
teardown3.jpg (99.87 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
used Bristol board for making templates
tank1.jpg
tank1.jpg (100.47 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
tank2.jpg
tank2.jpg (120.6 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
tank3.jpg
tank3.jpg (113.06 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
tank4.jpg
tank4.jpg (109.09 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
moved over bottom bracket and crank from my devinci
tank5.jpg
tank5.jpg (111.16 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
tank6.jpg
tank6.jpg (112.86 KiB) Viewed 4618 times
That's where im at for now, will mount the controller on the belly of the tank and seal it up well along with some fenders. I'll do some testing check for any stress and paint it in the summer. Can't wait to ride in shorts, not 5 layers of clothes and ski mask.
Last edited by Bill Nye the science guy on Mar 17 2013 10:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 17 2013 10:33pm

double post.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Tucson Az.

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by motomech » Mar 18 2013 3:17am

Hi Bill,
Fun build thread.
The motor in the early pics(the shiny one), is definitely an Ezee geared motor.
FYI, it's a 400W(rated) motor that is very closely related to the BMC V1 series, which is also rated at 400 Watts. It employs white nylon gears which are still available from a couple of sources. The clutch ASM is getting rare and I only know of a couple of sources that still have them.
I mention this because you are definitely over-Amping yours(I'm assuming the black motor is the same, just painted). The general consensus is they are reliable up to 1200Watts, ,maybe 1500W if one is careful. The Achilles Heel are the nylon gears, which if the motor gets hot enough, can turn to mush. You are probably ok in the cooler climes of the Great White North, but combine a warm day, a long hill and 2K Watts and you will likely do them in. You might want to tone down that controller, or a least limit it via the C.A. It's unclear whether or not the composite gears from later versions of the BMC geared will fit or not, as I don't know of anyone who has tried. Perhaps one of the BMC experts like Coghog or Illia from Ebke SF would know.
The Ezee has a couple of known problems(bad solder joints at the Hall wire/PCB junction being the most common), but it is considered to be a high quality motor. It is also, I believe, manufacturered in Taiwan, not China.
I don't see, nor do you mention any torque arms? If there aren't any, you definitely need to get at least one on there.
I have a couple of Ezee motors sitting here and am looking into installing one on my GT Idrive. It uses bolt-on dropouts, like your Norco and after trying several "after-market" torque arms, and I'm at the point where I'm resigned to fab'ing some steel bolt-on drop-outs.
And I agree, you should have gone with Lipo, much more compact.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 18 2013 10:03am

ya the motor is just painted. the gears are white nylon inside, I have heard about this clutch but my motor does not free wheel .when of the throttle there is still a little bit of magnetic drag like a DD and cant say I saw a clutch inside. I wonder if sealing and putting 100ml of oil would cool enough to save the gears from melting?

here is a question, when this motor dies what is an upgraded geared motor over the ezee, and still be light weight.

torque arms are definitely on the list before the back wheel falls off.

the one advantage of nimh is they are tough and you can limp home on dead batteries that are still not discharged below a volt. but the manufacturers claims of 5000mAh may include energy down in that range where as lipos have an operating range they are tested in so the claims might be more accurate

for torque arms you could make a template, get a shop to rough cut them and then you grind them to final shape to save money.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13535
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by John in CR » Mar 18 2013 11:35am

Welcome to ES Bill. Thanks for the reminder of our first ebike rides. How fun it is simply can't be explained and must be experienced to appreciate. Just wait until you're confident enough in your bike to hand it to someone else for a test ride. The smiles every first timer comes back with are priceless. :mrgreen:

Now I need to go find out what this Science Guy thing is about, since I haven't heard of it.

John

User avatar
pdf   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 591
Joined: Aug 20 2009 11:31am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, USA

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by pdf » Mar 18 2013 1:55pm

FYI, there is an EZee that is rated for 900W, it is the one that is fitted into the Edgerunner. 900W on 48v. That is a lot of power through a geared motor. The torque is pretty impressive.
-------------
Jamis Commuter 1.0/Xtracycle Stokemonkey 36V LiFePO4, 15 ahr
Giant Boulder 9C 8x8, 48v, 10 Ahr LiMn from ebikes.ca

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 18 2013 3:03pm

John in CR wrote:Welcome to ES Bill. Thanks for the reminder of our first ebike rides. How fun it is simply can't be explained and must be experienced to appreciate. Just wait until you're confident enough in your bike to hand it to someone else for a test ride. The smiles every first timer comes back with are priceless. :mrgreen:

Now I need to go find out what this Science Guy thing is about, since I haven't heard of it.

John
I (Bill Nye the science guy) had a hit show in the 90's educating kids and making science fun. though with the invention of the video game console kids stopped believing in science. so I moved up to boring Canada where they don't believe in education and work on projects in my filthy garage, every once in a while something science like happens in the news and I show up on CNN for about 10 seconds to explain something as complex as the gulf oil spill repair procedure but am cut off disrespectfully because the weather man wants to reiterate what I just said. then they are out of time.

bitter..yes!

I will check out this edgerunner 900watt motor. any other good geared hub motor options?
I will put some ATF fluid in it and drive it till it pops, then we will know what it can take long term. I wont run more than 50A too fast for the trails.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
Whiplash   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2897
Joined: May 10 2010 2:55pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Whiplash » Mar 18 2013 3:21pm

Bill! I used to watch your show! If this is really you I am glad to see you are enjoying the E bike revolution with us!! Nice build

If that is not the MAC motor from Cell Man, you should give his a try, it has been proven well into the 2500 watt range as long as you are easy on the throttle in the really rough stuff... This motor has Grey gears that are wider than most, and a better clutch ETC. You can get them here:
http://www.emissions-free.com

I recommend the 1000W version with matching controller as they are a bit hard to find a controller that works well with them. Get the 8T or 6T version depending on the speed you want, if its mostly off road, I would go with the 8T the 6T does like 38-40 MPH on 12s LiPo fully charged..
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

User avatar
mushymelon   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 300
Joined: Mar 28 2010 3:46am
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by mushymelon » Mar 18 2013 5:14pm

Bill Nye the electrician maybe. I think his daughter would be too old for a tricycle. Why would bill nye need a big dewalt onsite radio it looks well used and theres a stereo in the shop already.

And I think I recognize the build in the background.

I think someones having a little fun with us.

Why Bill Nye?

kfong   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1956
Joined: Sep 02 2008 11:34am
Location: SE Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by kfong » Mar 18 2013 5:27pm

Easily solved, just post a pic with you standing with your ebike. That would put you on celebrity status :mrgreen:

melodious   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1154
Joined: Aug 26 2011 8:57am
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by melodious » Mar 18 2013 5:38pm

I have my doubts as well. Never thought the science guy was so messy! Who leaves a light bulb sitting on the ground?

Image

Then again it could be him. Things could be weirder.

This is Jim Morrison signing off from my iPad in a beach in Greece! Break on through!
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
42" dual diagonal Eskateboard @6s & 90mm wheels
Next: eMTB @10-12s & 8"-12" pneumatic wheels; Got Strapped? d-(',')z

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 18 2013 8:58pm

Lol. Good observations.

I am not the famous Bill Nye. Didn't know he had so many fans. I hope he knows. It ticks me off how they ask him a question on CNN, he begins to explain and they just can't stand waiting for the answer.

I am a big fraud. Lol
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
jonescg   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3369
Joined: Aug 07 2009 9:22pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by jonescg » Mar 18 2013 11:14pm

So disappointed... :(


Yes, science communication is seriously lame in the mainstream media. We're constantly told to dumb it down, whereas our whole purpose is to raise science awareness of the general populous up.

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 25658
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by amberwolf » Mar 20 2013 10:14pm

You mention "49 x 2" for your NiMH pack: does this mean you are using 49 series by 2 parallel? If so, I don't recommend you parallel the NiMH at all (charge or discharge). It can result in dramatic failure. There's a number of discussions on why.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.p ... H_%26_NiCd
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.p ... H_%26_NiCd

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 20 2013 11:28pm

ok that was a lot of reading, I charge in 8 series packs with a delta peak charger. I have a charge connector and a controller connector to separate all packs for charging/join all the packs for 2x49. what is the concern on the discharge side of things. I don't have a bms to blow up. as long as packs are both charged. is there a heat/resistance runaway on discharge. I thought they would balance each other as they discharge during use?

parallel charging is craziness.

I will switch to lipo once my ebike allowance builds back up again, maybe those nano 10s packs.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

User avatar
Bill Nye the science guy   100 W

100 W
Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 22 2013 9:33pm

Re: Norco Bomber 2kw build

Post by Bill Nye the science guy » Mar 22 2013 1:18pm

I found the problem with discharging nimh in parallel . the pack with the lower resistance does most of the work and when you let off the gas the lazy freeloader pack dumps current and quick charges the low resistance pack. probably over heating it and wearing it out.

charging of any type in parallel will cause failure. nimh don't like trickle charging. nicd can stand C/10 trickle but nimh is I believe C/20.

I am installing a pack selector switch, when one dies I will switch to the other.

thanks for the info.
1997 Norco Bomber down hill frame
motor- 9C 2808
Controller- Ku120@45amp x 70volts + cycle analyst
Battery- 10ah nimh sub-c(53s x2) 55 kms top speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=48541

Post Reply