#1 The long road

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Emoto   1 kW

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#1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 08 2013 9:47am

Well here goes after finding ES and reading learning heaps finally bought a dh frame and cromotor + 18 fet infinion, those are the main ingredients.

But Hay the motor is 2 wide for the frame [ 135mm frame, 150mm cromotor] so after speaking to a frame welder was told id weaken it if i got it welded so, the challenge was to find a way to achieve widening the swing-arm for the motor, but allow for some adjustment for centering, also longer wheel base would be good and some extra shock to swing-arm brackets for height adjustments later for pedal clearance because off 17" mx rims, sooo after much thought, i cut and got it welded in a place that wasnt as crucial structurally.
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Last edited by Emoto on Jul 18 2013 9:49am, edited 1 time in total.
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wheelbender6   100 W

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by wheelbender6 » Jun 10 2013 9:48pm

Good thing you knew a good welder. Welding aluminum is difficult compared to steel.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by dogman dan » Jun 11 2013 6:31am

Another option, is have that welder make you a steel swingarm, at 150mm. This has advantages, like lengthening it a few inches, and including a bomb proof dropout that pinches the axle.

Go for that, if your weld breaks.

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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 11 2013 2:25pm

I met the welder while i was flying my rc plane one day, he said he was ex-ray qualified, we discussed the job he said easy, so i cut and jigged it,'' no worries''.
He calls me and i picked it up, here's i pic. :
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|
My first thought was im glad i chose the least structural area to cut/weld.
The bottom weld is a 3mm tubed brace [ original ] that was cut and widened with tubing, it will get a 316 m8 bolt.
The top same, cut and widened also 316 m8 bolt. have now epoxied the outer for cosmetic. It should be fine
My lesson to share here guys, check out the dudes welding first.
dogman wrote:Another option, is have that welder make you a steel swingarm, at 150mm. This has advantages, like lengthening it a few inches, and including a bomb proof dropout that pinches the axle.

Go for that, if your weld breaks.
Definitely, im on my bolt on clamping drop out's now. :D
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 14 2013 9:30am

Im happy with the frame now, enough to start preparing it for a 2 pack paint job, gloss black, even though harder than matt to paint it will show all imperfections i think it will be worth the effort, after all this is the long road.
While im preping the frame, Im not happy with the phase wiring milling on my cromotor going past the shoulder in to the flat area [ some have snapped ] so i got a engineer to mill some new 18.2mm width flats im happy with this now.
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This does mean in my case loosing the disc adapter and re drilling the bolt pattern on the disc and bolting directly to the motor using the existing m5 holes, some have already done this http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=345,also fitting temp censor and milling side covers for air cooling.
also the phase wiring milling groove was very sharp as you can see in the pic the wire shield has been cut so a simple sand with emery is also good insurance
Last edited by Emoto on Jul 18 2013 10:07am, edited 1 time in total.
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 18 2013 9:21am

Been looking for a while for a set of forks to match my dh frame but 15/20mm axle versions are $.
Just by chance stopped at a local shop they had these to clear for $190. 36mm stanchion and sturdy 20mm axle. :D
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Last edited by Emoto on Jun 19 2013 8:28am, edited 1 time in total.
My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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deffx   100 W

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by deffx » Jun 18 2013 9:55am

Gonna be a nice ride

What length are them forks, as a bighit 2 needs 180mm travel, just thinking of the geometry, my original rockshox measure 560mm from centre of axle to top fork crown, though yours do look pretty tall in the photo so should be good

just a thought

I fly fpv to, luv it

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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 19 2013 8:11am

deffx wrote:Gonna be a nice ride

What length are them forks, as a bighit 2 needs 180mm travel, just thinking of the geometry, my original rockshox measure 560mm from centre of axle to top fork crown, though yours do look pretty tall in the photo so should be good

just a thought

I fly fpv to, luv it
Good point, the geometry was just one of the important equations when i was considering widening/cuting the swingarm, with 17" rims, im sure the storms are 180mm... axle to top of fork crown is 520mm.
These rst arn't serviceable seals ect afaik and have a bit of stiction but the safety aspect with 20mm axle made me give em a go.
Btw that footage was not fpv :shock: had a mate help me spot. it cut out 3 times, each time total loss of controll for 2 sec during that flight ,after landing found the speedy pcb positive hanging on buy a few strands.
Last edited by Emoto on Jun 21 2013 2:41pm, edited 1 time in total.
My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 21 2013 9:54am

After 4 coats of automotive Gloss black 2 pac , Finally happy with the finished paint job.
And installed headset, getting there
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 24 2013 8:06am

Input needed, went to look at some Michelin m45 tyres today for my build and im a bit concerned, really id like some Michelin pilot sportys in 17" but can't find any in aus now so i weighed the m45's.
Rear 17"x 2.75 =2.4kg
Front 17"x2.25= 1.8kg
No sure if these are heavier than most scooter tyres most manufacturers dont specify weight, there probably all close, so im wondering how much performance loss from standard 24"/26" mtb rim tyres.
i know the smaller diameter rim will have lower top end+ better acceleration :D , so the extra weight might not be a concern.
So if you have gone from 24"/26" mtb rim tyres to 17"rim scooter tyres, or the other way round would be good to hear your findings/ experience thanks
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melodious   100 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by melodious » Jun 24 2013 8:56am

I like this build. It's taking Farfle's idea of a beefy 150mm dropout and putting it on a good solid frame. The frame, however, is a "rock solid" Specialized Al frame. Probably comes with a good shock too. That's noice... :wink:
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
42" dual diagonal Eskateboard @6s & 90mm wheels
Next: eMTB @10-12s & 8"-12" pneumatic wheels; Got Strapped? d-(',')z

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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 25 2013 9:29am

Hi Melodious, i try to lean towards build it strong or right, do it once, farfle is inspiring and his work rate is awsome, the shock is a fox vanilla standard with the frame.

The build took a side track when i got a quote for milling the droupouts [ not as cheap as i hoped ] the thought cheeped in that if i didnt get the design right i would have to fork out again to get it modified or new ones made.
So After no luck looking for a second hand mill drill, i bought a 16 speed industrial drill press with the money the milling would have cost "'winning", a bit rough but after cleaning with emery cloth and deisel and fitting some japanese bearings and getting a new milling compound table i was stoked.

Its not a accurate milling machine but to go from nothing its liberating , your head :idea: starts spinning with all the new possibilities, droupouts milling covers ect, if any one is thinking of doing this, for light home milling / the only pitfall is the chuck falling out while milling because of the arbor taper, so buy a smaller light chuck and drive it home well, its worked well for me so far.
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jun 30 2013 9:11am

Ok let's do some milling, slotting cranks for fun im light so dont need the extra beef, sprocket side droupout is 90% done im leaving the plan shape unfinished disc side as i dont have my calipers yet, will try to incorporate there mounts in the droupout hopefully :|
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Ive got rid of the 3.6 kg rst storms that was a bad move, you can get tripple clamps that weigh less but sticking to qr15/20 axles for their build strength so im looking for single crown 2-2.5 kg [ if any one has a good little use set dont be afraid to pm]
As this is my first ebike im hoping! :o to feel a good performance advantage saving a kilo.
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jul 03 2013 9:52am

Been busy wheel building, both 17" alloy mx rims rear is 1.6" wide and front 1.4" first time iv'e done a wheel build and a lot to think about, the hardest part was pulling the out of round out, the rear rim had 5/6mm mainly at the weld got it down to 1mm,[ getting a motor rim pre-built would save a lot of drama] my rear wheel. custom spokes at 108mm were 5mm to long.
So I striped it cut them and rebuilt it, i spoke to a wheel builder after he said grind the spokes but i thought if i wanted to re tighten them later the spoke will start to protrude. it was a good exercise so if the wheel needs straightening it shouldnt be two hard.
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For the front rim i had to offset it 10mm so i tried using a piece of tape across the stanchions - measured where the rim should be central with markings as you can see in photo, and it worked real well.
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jul 10 2013 10:11am

I think from first deciding i would build my first bike then finally deciding on spec/parts not having enough time ect it's been well over a year.
but now there's tyre a on the rear it feels all worth it, i chose a 2.5" Michelin m45 good all rounder. next is replacing the standard phase wires for some 12g silicon [ standard endless sphere bolognese ] and a temp censor.
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jul 18 2013 11:20am

Received the 34t chain ring and bolts and a 22t dicta freewheel, Finished machining and painted the cranks.
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Here is a closeup of the swing-arm finished as you can see a 20mm bush on the right and some ss washers for now, i hope should give me all the adjustment i need to fine tune alignment.got the feeling ill be making new top brackets but ill have a better idea when i finish the new motor phase wire and temp sensor mods and fit the rear wheel for a mockup.
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Jul 31 2013 7:24am

Had a big build incentive today. rode my first stealth bomber :mrgreen: coming from motorcycling background was a bit worried a ebike would't be exciting power wise, even though the bomber was governed to 2.5kw that was enough to get a taste. this ebike thing is everything i hoped it would be light- nimble- versatile without the constraints of a road mc, think im hooked for life.

Got a new set of single crown dirt jump forks- 32mm cro-molly stanchions 100m travel 20mm axle for $315 aus and the important bit a 1kg lighter than the previous rst fork more adjustment aswell, just hope the 100mm travel is enough.
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Aug 25 2013 10:37am

Been busy
New phase wires nice and flexable 12g silicon replacing the stiff standard factory issue, and factory soldering on them was the worst dull soldering i have ever seen , and most important temp sensor fitted not right on windings as you can see, its a hk temp/voltage sensor, can be read by any digital voltage read out.
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And last but not least a frame brace/ mod, the bearing housing around the swing-arm pivot is 3mm, while ok for downhill , but not a lot when dealing with a heavy hub motor, so i milled some braces, should help i hope .
My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Aug 28 2013 2:45pm

Finally its a roller, still got to tweak droupouts ect but its alignment is good rear shock is plush :) verry happy good incentive boost, next battery configuration/ placement
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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hjns   100 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by hjns » Aug 28 2013 11:54pm

very nice build. Waiting to see how you solve the battery placement.... :mrgreen:
Henk


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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Sep 24 2013 10:01am

Good question i was going to do this with a epoxy carbon composite cover until my battery's arrived
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But i now i have other plans, i spoke with my designer/ test rider seen here below testing the first idea [he's the good looking one with the fur coat] and said to him what about a monocoque main frame, he replied with a sly grin YEAH MAN
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So a week in design and decided on 5083 3mm ali with some 4mm sections just in-case
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Sep 29 2013 8:40am

Moving on to marking and cutting out panel slots
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Starting to look like something now :)
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The main frame wasnt that hard once i decided on batt capacity head tube angle seat and crank height [ having my first frame as a roller helped a great deal ] but those will be fine tuned with the swingarm of course.
So next swingarm planning.... a bit more to think about... aluminum again and ill try to incorporate some adjustment on the frame swingarm connection as i havent made a frame jig.

Right now im in two minds between a dnm rear shock or i might be able to get away with a fox dhx rc4 as im 70kg, im guessing the fox is lighter and probably plusher and they have a good selection of springs, if anyone has had both please give me you experience.
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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Oct 10 2013 8:14am

Brakes have arrived, four piston caliper shimano saints, should provide plenty of stopping power got them as a great deal as well.
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Working out the swingarm, just finalizing a couple of ideas and then she is off to the welder for stage one welding.
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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beast775   100 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by beast775 » Oct 10 2013 3:39pm

Excellent build 8) ,very well thought out so far,looks good in black.
2 FINGER SALUTE TO ESSO.no buying gasoline for 7 years now.
I spent all my money on bicycles women and beer the rest i just wasted.

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Emoto   1 kW

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Re: #1 The long road

Post by Emoto » Oct 18 2013 9:29am

Hey thanks beast, my welder went on holiday for 2 weeks :( but im glad as this has given me time to redesign the swingarm if you STARE :shock: at it long enough iv'e found you will always improve you design, the trick is in my case when to stop and get on with it.
Now using 50x25x3mm arms that should more than strong enough and cleaned up the bracing. droupout will be 160mm
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My first build #1 The long road viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50752
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