[update] kona stinky

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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[update] kona stinky

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Nov 18 2013 6:58am

This thread follows the mounting of the kit linked below, on a 2000 kona stinky:
(this is going to be my very first E-bike project, even if I have some e-scooter and E-skate experience)

the kit

Image

I got the complete kit as pictured above for 700Euros, it costs now 1400Euros.
the kit is rated 1000W but I wonder, it seems that the numbers do not match
(54.6V x 70A = 3822W)
the bike costed about 200Euros,
Target is to have a cheap yet powerfull EV for a 10kms commute - but with a 7kms long climb...

Here are some assembly tests pics :
Image


There is hardly enought space between the shock absorber deported chamber and the battery,

can I turn it upside down or should this chamber be always at the top ?
Last edited by made_in_the_alps_legacy on Jun 12 2018 6:07am, edited 18 times in total.

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: stinky 2000 (48V hub motor) made in the alps

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Nov 25 2013 6:12am

Image
made_in_the_alps_legacy wrote:
There is hardly enought space between the shock absorber deported chamber and the battery,

can I turn it upside down or should this chamber be always at the top ?

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jateureka   10 kW

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Re: stinky 2000 (48V hub motor) made in the alps

Post by jateureka » Nov 25 2013 4:16pm

I would swap the position of the battery and controller, that way you can add more of a protective case to the battery and the controller wires/connectors will be inside the frame triangle instead.

Edit: provided there is enough clearance to the tire with the fork compressed
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
ZERO 2011 S motorcycle, 51.8V 70Ah LiMno2, 2012 headlight, Kilovac EV-200 contactor
E-mower: EGO 56V mower & line trimmer


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Re: stinky 2000 (48V hub motor) made in the alps

Post by jateureka » Nov 29 2013 8:09pm

Then you could keep the battery inside the triangle frame/ controller under down tube as per your original setup and make a nice junction box to cover the controller connectors.
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
ZERO 2011 S motorcycle, 51.8V 70Ah LiMno2, 2012 headlight, Kilovac EV-200 contactor
E-mower: EGO 56V mower & line trimmer

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: stinky 2000 (48V hub motor) made in the alps

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Dec 23 2013 4:50am

jateureka wrote:Then you could keep the battery inside the triangle frame/ controller under down tube as per your original setup and make a nice junction box to cover the controller connectors.
agreed,
but the shock arrived without bushing on one side and I convinced myself that I would keep this "vintage" style of the bike itself (100% original components) -
so, I should move up a bit the plate holding the battery and move back a bit the actual shock (using the hole closer to the seat tube rather than the forward one as it is actually), hope to get enought space to avoid conflict...
then as u said, small JB, wire up and... keep on working on those torque arms... and get some better quality M14 nuts... and...

bah... this project is so heavy to work on compared to my e-skate... I have also been reading subject regarding how bad radial spokes hub motor wheels are... so, not too excited any longer...

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Re: stinky 2000 (48V hub motor) made in the alps

Post by h0tr0d » Dec 27 2013 1:01am

Sell your bike then...
Thank you Justin! Life is so much sweeter with this forum... ;)

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: stinky 2000 (48V hub motor) made in the alps

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Dec 27 2013 2:07am

ahah... I think I will finish it first :wink: I progressed on the battery enclosure recently...
Image
and ordered a power analyser which will be usefull for my projects
Image
Last edited by made_in_the_alps_legacy on Jan 13 2014 10:29am, edited 1 time in total.

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: no load run+1 run stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Jan 02 2014 1:29am

turned the shock upside down + finished my battery mount + "armor"

Image
Image
Image
Image

Did the wiring and hanged the bike in the air for a no load test :
It started at the first attempt
Noted 2 issues :
- the wheel had to be trued, did it.
- the last 25% of the throttle range does not lead to acceleration, it accelerates during the first 75% but then speed stays stable for the last 25%
(I had my 36V e- scooter throttle wired at that time, could it be the reason ? tried to connect the throttle from the kit but could not manage to get it working...)

Then went for a first load run :
- took less than 3 meters to shut down : 35A fuse on the battery wire blew up - I admit, I was high on power demand :wink:
(the battery was measured above 50V and since the controller is rated 50A, I wonder if this fuse make sens...)
(Haven't received the power analyser yet...)

I need to doublecheck the wiring i believe...

Image
Last edited by made_in_the_alps_legacy on Jan 06 2014 3:01am, edited 1 time in total.

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: no load run+1 run stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Jan 04 2014 6:48am

Doublechecked the wiring as per "how to determine wiring of a brushless motor" topic,
...and haven't found much...
Did some no load test current measurement, about 0.2Aat the lowest rpm, rises up to about 5A at 75% throtte, then up to 15A at full throttle...
Could also measure Hz at each hall sensor
Went again for a load test, had the feeling to ride the 250W ebike of my mother... then the 35A fuse blew up again

Comments welcome

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Re: no load run+1 run stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by Icewrench » Jan 04 2014 11:20am

15 amps at no load is too much.
Check the phase wires and find a better running combination.
Most motors will be @ 2 amps at no load.

Good luck

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Re: no load run+1 run stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Jan 13 2014 5:33am

Thanks a lot, I should also thank various people who contributed to many "how to" topics I found with the search function :
was self educationnal to troubleshoot this issue, I know I will forget many but at least "fetcher" and "dnumm"

I checked again the wiring,
and went through the 36 possible combination process to find the right one... (the 9th)
hall controller side / hall Motor side - Phase wires controller side / Phase wires Motor side
B/B - B/B
G/Y - G/Y
Y/G - Y/G
fixed some dirty stuff, (cable thighten on its insulation : no good)

If a noob like me read this, please note, when "they" say "noisy motor", it's like a "brrrrr..." or a "grrrr..."
when you get the right combination it would really make "wiiiizzzz..." :lol:

anyway, hooked the power meter, found the "wiiiizzzz..." combination, got less than 3A at full speed no load, went for a "uphill" ride, got a bit more than 40A, and a not too bad 1800Wp reading - I guess the battery can't deliver more than 40A, maybe I should plug my e-skate LiPo for a test

was happy to find those in a local shop :
Image
used them for Throttle and hall sensors wires, then hooked them to the main cable with cable tie, so I won't have forces pulling on the connection themselves

Image

Could store the "rat nest" in a saddle bag attached to the down tube, found a place for the power meter...
Image

replaced the original fuse holder by an "AGU" style one, put a 40A fuse in there but I have some 60A too
Image

next is tyre change, torque arms, speedmeter ...and it should be it :wink:

Edit : memo for me : topic regarding shunt mod
mounting turnigy power meter (remote shunt)
Last edited by made_in_the_alps_legacy on Aug 07 2014 2:11am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [4th load run OK] stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by dbaker » Jan 13 2014 8:29am

better do torque arms first. At 40 amps the motor will rotate in the dropouts and destroy the motor wires :cry:

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Re: [4th load run OK] stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Jan 20 2014 3:00am

... torque arms progressing slowly
I am being tickled by the "shunt mod" described above in my previous post,
But I seek for help if someone could comment if this mod would bring my battery at risk
know spec for this battery, says <70A for 5min ?
I know I have seen a very good table showing LiPo chemistry and performance on ES to compare with but can't find it with the search function...

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 17 2014 2:27am

I took the risk to test a 6s-22V/30C/5Ah LiPo pack in series of the 48V/2C/20Ah to supply the controller :

It did work very well : even if the power meter has been blicking since it's overvolted,
I could measure a peak power of 3kW and a very satisfactory top speed.

Would someone please advise me what risks I take from the batteries discharge point of view in this layout ? is there any ?

EDIT : just had a look to this topic
I don't get the point, I should monitor closely the voltage of the booster pack ? could I assume the first consumed "Ah" will be the ones from the booster pack ?
I could add a second LiPo Pack, so booster pack could be 2xLiPo22V/30C/5Ah parallel, going then in series of the 48V/2C/20Ah pack, would it better than one ? why?
Last edited by made_in_the_alps_legacy on Mar 17 2014 5:47am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by izeman » Mar 17 2014 3:39am

did you see any disadvantages because of the upside down damper? i will install mine that way as well. i can't imagine how this would cause any problems, but who knows?!

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 17 2014 4:56am

Assuming there is a piston in this chamber, I think it's ok (I haven't noticed any disadvantage ...yet)
Image


Please anyone help regarding "booster pack"

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by izeman » Mar 17 2014 4:46pm

Current doesn't give any favor to a special way it travels. In your case, as you put the two batteries in series, both of them see the very same load. If you see 40a at the amp meter, then it's 40a for the big pack, and the same for the booster pack.
To make a long story short: you pull 40a from the little 6s 5000mah pack. Which may be OK of it's an expensive nano lipo pack, but can be to much foot a cheap zippy.
That's why you should watch it closely. Of there is one single weak cell in the lipo it can be a problem.

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 18 2014 1:10am

Thxs Izeman,
I guess I need to be really concerned about the LiPo booster pack after 5Ah/45A=7min ride, is it?
Maybe I should try to parallel my 36V/2C/12Ah from my e-scooter instead...

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by izeman » Mar 18 2014 1:30am

made_in_the_alps_legacy wrote:Thxs Izeman,
I guess I need to be really concerned about the LiPo booster pack after 5Ah/45A=7min ride, is it?
Maybe I should try to parallel my 36V/2C/12Ah from my e-scooter instead...
After 7 min latest it should be dead empty. But it most likely will be taking some serious damage at that point.
You should always put batteries of same capacity in series. So make that lipo pack 20ah as well and you'll be fine.
This scooter battery is totally useless for this purpose. You can't parallel that 36v battery with the lipo as the voltage differs. And y you can use it to put in series as it can't deliver 40a.

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by izeman » Mar 18 2014 4:33am

to make my last post clearer i will make a small calculation example:

first battery: 55V, 30A, 20Ah
second battery: 22V, 50A, 5Ah
third battery: 36V, 25A, 12Ah

those should be nominal contant values and not peak.

if you put all of them in series you get: 55+22+36= 113V with 25A current and 5Ah capacity.
so you see, you're wasting the high capacity of the first one and the high current of the second one.

what you are doing at the moment: first and second battery in series: 55+22 = 77V, 30A and 5Ah.
this is more or less the same as above. you loose 15Ah of the first battery.
if you only want to boost for 5min high load, then disconnect the battery and ride with the big pack only, then you should be fine, as you can use the remaining 15Ah of the big pack.

nethertheless i would add at least a second 5Ah lipo in parallel to the first one as this
a) reduces the stress on the pack by 50%
b) adds 100% range to the booster pack

i hope now everything is super clear :)

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 18 2014 6:02am

izeman wrote:i hope now everything is super clear :)
Your explainations have been super clear
- my fault if I mentionned bringing the 36V/15Ah in parallel while actually thinking series.
Thanks a lot

the background is simple :
I know I have to climb a 7kms hill with about 500m altitude difference, as far as I could measure, the 48V/20Ah pack will hardly make it: I have to try, but I want to try with a back up, not to be stuck along this hill.
In addition, this daily commute includes a 3kms ride in town ...and I can't believe the 20Ah pack to be able to last back and forth.

Anyway, thanks for your contribution : I will get down that hill and cross the town with the booster pack(s) - reload the booster pack(s) over the day and maybe the 20Ah pack too.
Later on plug back the booster pack(s) to get back to the bottom of that hill, unplug the booster pack, then try to get up the hill with what's left in the 20Ah pack...

Will carry the "36V/12Ah" as "very last chance" in a back pack : will be used when the 20Ah pack becomes empty.
(side note : both 12Ah and 20Ah packs have BMS, so I feel safer using those than the LiPo bricks)
The good new for me is the controller unable to produce magic smoke while being overvolted
- the "less good" new is that the controller pulls not more than 45A - will see how it turns and if I move to a shunt mod or not.

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Mar 21 2014 2:47am

For info,
here is the version with 2x6S-5Ah booster pack lodged in a saddle bag and reaching the controller with extension wires :
Image

Side note :
tried to feed the controller with the 48V/20Ah and 36V/12Ah in SERIES - both "hot from the charger" @ 50V + 40V : 90V
FAILED -

luckily the controller survived this test, seems like it is "overvoltage protected" somewhere above 75V (since it works with 25V + 50V ) but below 90V

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Re: [booster pack : advise needed] stinky 2000/48V hub motor

Post by dnmun » Mar 21 2014 10:17am

48Vlifepo4 is 58-59V fully charged and the 36V is 45V DC fully charged so it was about 100-105V DC.

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Re: no load run+1 run stinky 2000/48V hub motor made in the

Post by arar1971 » Apr 22 2014 3:58am

If a noob like me read this, please note, when "they" say "noisy motor", it's like a "brrrrr..." or a "grrrr..."
when you get the right combination it would really make "wiiiizzzz..." :lol:

what you mean exactly because my 9c motor started to make noise like brrrr or grrrr and sometimes when on hard load a metallic pin scratching noise.

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