Drew12345 Trek Fuel (AFT Mid Drive, Gauges)

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drew12345
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Drew12345 Trek Fuel (AFT Mid Drive, Gauges)

Post by drew12345 » Feb 13, 2014 7:51 pm

Hi. Just started this awesome sport last year. Wanted to start a thread to post all my photos/videos/etc. This bike is a Trek Fuel Ex8 configured with Clyte HS3540 and 12s Lipo. This bike is a temporary stage right now as I'm waiting for my AFT Mid Drive in a couple weeks. Then I'll transition the clyte back to my other bike. And this bike will be used for my trail riding. Check out my first ebike videos. I added some cool telemetry to my videos.
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Last edited by drew12345 on Jul 01, 2014 7:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by litespeed » Feb 14, 2014 7:34 am

That's pretty cool!

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by ambroseliao » Feb 14, 2014 7:57 am

Nice bike and videos. How did you add the telemetry info?
http://www.ebikes.ca/ is the best!

TidalForce M-750X, Tidalforce S-750 with Crystalyte HS3540, 1x TF iO-X Cruiser. E+ 1000W hybrid bike. ebikes.ca DrainBrain & Cycle Analyst meters. GoPro HD Hero2 camera. Bosch Fat Packs, 37V 10Ah LiPO pack. Turnigy Multistar 10Ah batteries
My blog: http://ebikerider.blogspot.com
Remember LiFEPo4 HVC is 3.65V and LVC is 2.7V

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Feb 14, 2014 8:04 am

Thanks guys. Look at dashware.net. You can import video and then add gps file from a garmin. You have to sync them but not hard at all. Or you can use contour gps which has both video and gps already synced together. Dashware will automatically import both. Dashware also has their own iphone app for data logging.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Feb 14, 2014 7:20 pm

Infineon Controller mount for $2. This was for my 36-72V, 40A Controller from ebikes.ca but the idea could work with other controllers. It's a "Tie Plate" from Home Depot. Only drilled the holes for bottle mount and controller and fits perfect.
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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Feb 18, 2014 10:23 pm

Here is my Lipo Battery Boblebee Backpack. Very comfortable and ergonomic. Good protection with hard shell. A tad bulky but well worth it. I got the Megalopolis version brand new off ebay for $110.

First, my prototype to see if I would like backpack. It was laptop bag and worked quite well. Just not a hard case.
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Side view. But if you also notice, I used Velcro straps. I wanted to keep the backpack collapsed in case I fall on it. I knew the backpack will not get compressed any further by the case and squish the Lipo's (at least my theory from testing).
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Below are various battery configurations I was testing out

This one only fit 7
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Looks like it could fit 12 but that is 24 pounds of battery.
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Using Lipo Bags
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Large Lipo Bags. 6 total. This will be my usual I think more than enough for trail riding
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2 Small Lipo Bags. 4 total.
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Extra Protection
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I'll try to get some vids of me riding with it.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Feb 23, 2014 2:59 pm

This is another video using telemetry. I'm riding some backroads near park. The highlights are some other samples of telemetry, beautiful view of sun, hit 36 mph going downhill, and fruitless attempt a hitting the trail since there was 4 inches snow/ice. I'm using GoPro Chesty. Sorry, it was a little shaky. Need to make tighter. When I got there, I realized my garmin battery was dead so tried the Dashware iphone datalogger. It actually worked quite well. So you just need a smartphone.

One note about the Dashware software. You can only import one video. Because GoPro splits files up once you hit 3.8 gb, you need to stitch them together before you use Dashware if you want the whole ride. To make things easier, I just tried to hit the good stuff early on so what I want is in first 3.8 gb of video and forget about the whole merging videos thing.

Oh, venting my hub made a huge difference. I would easily get over 65c if I would use WOT alot. After venting, it didn't go over 50c riding the same way. Very excited about that. And also amazed at how fast the temp dropped when I stopped for only a couple minutes.

Last edited by drew12345 on Feb 11, 2015 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 07, 2014 8:02 am

Fun, Fun, Fun

Finally got my AFT Mid Drive installed. Took me about 10 hours. I ran into a few issues because of extreme motor gear ratio I went with but got everything working. I will create installation video but will take me couple weeks because number of videos I need to edit. I originally had the controller mounted in default location below bottom bracket but at last minute moved up to downtube because didn't want to get wet from snow. You will see in video the wiring looks ugly.

I took the bike for quick 2 minute test ride then hit the trail. It was crazy for my first real ride hitting a trail filled with snow and ice and never used a mid drive. It will take some getting used to how to ride on the trail but it was a load of fun. I was also scared to go fast on trail because it was so slippery. I told Jim that I wanted gear ratio suited for the trail and he gave me 48t motor wheel with 13t crossfire. The rest of existing drivetrain is 44t/24t and 11/34 cassette. The gear ratio was perfect for the trail. At the end of my ride, I hit the road for a little bit. I didn't expect any decent speed. But I hit 38mph going down slight hill with no pedaling.

Overall, I am very happy with the motor. It's really powerful and didn't have any issues on the trail and not a single dropped chain. The motor wasn't even warm after riding. Will try to do another ride today or tomorrow.


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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 08, 2014 9:26 pm

Did a video today just goofing around. I did go down some steps though. Was getting a lot of splash on my bike from melted snow. Dropped chain twice. I noticed alignment was slightly off and wetness really made alignment vital. I fixed and hopefully will be fine. Funny, didn't even drop going on rough trails yesterday.


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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by onlineaddy » Mar 10, 2014 3:54 pm

drew12345 wrote:Infineon Controller mount for $2. This was for my 36-72V, 40A Controller from ebikes.ca but the idea could work with other controllers. It's a "Tie Plate" from Home Depot. Only drilled the holes for bottle mount and controller and fits perfect.
What size is that tie plate? Did you have to cut it to size?

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 10, 2014 4:13 pm

Didn't cut anything. It almost as if it was made for it. Just need to drill holes for mounting. I did quick measurement and is 7 x 3 1/8.

Edit: forgot I did snip the corners just in case my leg would hit it. I just used wire cutters and filed it. Or you could bend it. I don't think you need to do but looked sharp.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 10, 2014 10:01 pm

Programming my Kelly Controller. I'll come back and post the pictures of each screen in Kelly program tomorrow.


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drew12345
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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 17, 2014 8:35 am

Went for another ride yesterday. I had a couple dropped chains last time. So brought my tools with me this time. And did have some more dropped chains on the most steepest stuff again. I went home and found out the problem. The bottom of motor is angled out. I couldn't see it from top but when I randomly took a pic from bottom of my bike I saw it. So will fix that and try next ride. I believe this should fix it.

On positive note, these mid drives are great. I couldn't believe the efficiency when it comes to battery. I seemed to be able to ride for very long time (4+ hours) on my setup 12s2p 15ah. I didn't think I could on the trails that long.

Anyway, did get some decent footage at another trail near my house. This place has a lot of technical short steep hills. Trails can be rough because they are shared with horses also. There were no horses when I went, thankfully.


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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by Gab » Mar 17, 2014 1:33 pm

On positive note, these mid drives are great. I couldn't believe the efficiency when it comes to battery. I seemed to be able to ride for very long time (4+ hours) on my setup 12s2p 15ah. I didn't think I could on the trails that long.
Cool build and videos. You had a hub motor on the same bike before ? how many watts ? and what speeds and range could you get compared to the AFT mid drive ?

also how does the ride feel compared to before, now you have lost all the weight from the wheel?

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 17, 2014 4:34 pm

Good Questions Gab. This is based on my limited time with both setups.

Trails:
I did have my clyte 3540 hub on the Trek briefly and did take it on the trail also. My impressions of it on the trail was that it sucked. The rear tire felt really heavy. It made it hard to handle. The balance felt off and felt a lot of flex in rear. I Was concerned I was going to taco the rim after each time I hit the root. I was also concerned about getting a flat. I didn't want to deal with taking the torque arms off on the trails and disconnecting all the wires which are in electrical tape. The motor got hot real fast also.

The Mid Drive is definitely suited for the trails. The bike feels very balanced. Taking advantage of the gears was huge. I don't have a temp sensor on mid drive so can't tell how hot it's getting. But been running it pretty hard and no issues and motor cover feels warm. Never got hot to touch. One issue for me was it's more complicated. Figuring out which gear to be in on mid drive but that will come with time. Obviously, mid drives can be more prone to failure with all the moving parts.

Speed:
With no pedaling and on the streets, the hub was slightly slower. I would get around 30mph. With mid drive, max would be around 33. I think as you go up in power, the hub would be faster and drivetrain less of advantage.

Watts:
Sorry, didn't pay attention to this one.

Battery:
I can't really give a comparison because I didn't use the hub on the trail long enough. I do know that I ran a long time on mid drive. Considering all the torque involved with riding on the trails, I thought I would get only 2 hours but got double that.

Conclusion:
For trails, would not use hub motor. I would like to try one of those bigger hubs on the trail with big suspension and moped tires and lots of power like Stealth Bomber though. Maybe my opinion would change. But if you can't afford that, than mid drive is the way to go for trails for user on budget. For streets, the hub motor is my preference. I would hate riding mid drive on the streets. It's complicated and noise is loud (at least the cyclone). Mid drives also involve more complicated installation and maintenance. I like the simplicity of the hub. Obviously, lots of variables involved but this is my opinion.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 23, 2014 9:25 pm

Did another ride in another part of trail. Started off in neighborhood and ended up on trail which I only show a small portion in this video. Didn't really push the motor hard and still learning how to ride a mid drive on the trail. This motor is really powerful. Every time I pull the throttle, it really wants to take off and need to hold back on the trail. 12s seems plenty for the trail so far. I just ordered some 2s batteries so I can up to 14s and start bulk charging though. Purposely didn't add music so you can hear sound of motor. Keep in mind gopro is right front of motor but it is still loud overall.

Last edited by drew12345 on Feb 11, 2015 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by Gab » Mar 24, 2014 12:04 am

Cool video you are really scooting along their at 12series so wow i imagine what it would be like at 14S !

The noise isn't too bad considering it's right on the motor , i think you will find any kit that makes more then 1kw will be a lot noisier like this 1680w kit, even the GNG kit is a lot noisier from the motor and chains etc when run at 3kw higher volts instead of the stock 1kw voltage. See here:
Re: New freeride project - LMX P1

by bzhwindtalker » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:50 am

the Stock GNG is quite silent but the combinaison of 100v and #25 chain mod makes it sound like most RC drives.



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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Mar 24, 2014 7:13 am

Thanks Gab and good point about the noise increasing with power.

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Apr 02, 2014 4:29 pm

Well, finally got my Cycle Analogger GPS and bought the RaceRender application. However, the weather has not been cooperating so couldn't test it. And kids are sick and work has been busy.

Today, finally got a chance to do a short test at park near my house. Video is below. The cycle analogger is small enough to fit in my saddle bag and then hooked the power and communication to my Cycle Analyst v2.3. I didn't have to solder anything. I knew from testing with trial edition that I had to add the time to each row in input file from logger. So wrote a small program to do that instead of using Excel. I then pointed to both input files from logger (data and gps) and pointed the controls to it. Had to synchronize the files and that was it.

Interesting note was that I did a quick test in the garage with my other bike that has Cycle Analyst v3. It outputted more information including throttle and temperature. I'll do a test with that bike sometime soon.

I'll also do a video of how to use cycle analogger and racerender sometime soon.


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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Apr 03, 2014 2:54 pm

I did a second ride yesterday and pushed the motor hard. When I came back home my motor was hot. I went back and looked at the data. I hit 2800 watts. I couldn't my setup could produce that much power. I think I need to start using limiter on CA so I don't burn anything out. Those Lipo's are powerful. I only have the Turnigy 6s 20c versions.


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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by Kmob1 » Apr 03, 2014 3:54 pm

Awesome videos those graphics look awesome.. 2.8kw peak thats heaps more then the Banfang middrives and your kit looks so much cleaner and compact then the GNG kits.
You are getting heaps of speed their, are you 12 or 14 series ? yeah you may want to limit the current a bit thats a lot of power?

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by litespeed » Apr 03, 2014 4:09 pm

That display on your videos is excellent!

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Apr 03, 2014 7:31 pm

Kmob1 wrote:Awesome videos those graphics look awesome.. 2.8kw peak thats heaps more then the Banfang middrives and your kit looks so much cleaner and compact then the GNG kits.
You are getting heaps of speed their, are you 12 or 14 series ? yeah you may want to limit the current a bit thats a lot of power?
Thanks! I love riding and making videos. Just not very good at both of them :) I really like the AFT mid drive. It's very powerful. Just been having a few issues with chain drops on really steep stuff but think I have it working now. Other than that, it's really awesome. AFT has been exceptional with customer support. I believe it is more powerful than bafang and gng but do like those kits. There are certain things about them I really like and wouldn't mind trying them.

I'm running 12s right now but have some batteries to go up to 14s if I want. Yeah, will limit as I want my stuff to last awhile :)

litespeed wrote:That display on your videos is excellent!

Tom
Thanks!

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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Apr 06, 2014 8:11 pm

Went for ride at Germantown park about 20 min from my house. It's a really neat park in that they have around 20 soccer fields, indoor tennis court, mini golf, swimming pools, etc. And for bikes they have trails, small pump track and jump section. Unfortunately, I didn't realize till 3/4 way through the ride that I had some mud on my lens and most of the footage was wasted. I did manage to get enough in that I made a decent video below. I also forgot to reset the CA in the beginning. It was one of those days. I want to go back and hit the pump track and do some small jumps off of that. I really suck at jumps so not sure if I want to even try the bigger jumps which I rolled over them at end of video.


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Re: Drew12345 Trek Fuel

Post by drew12345 » Apr 11, 2014 6:13 am

Had some fun riding over logs yesterday at Schaeffer Farms in Germantown. I have another video coming riding on the trails there.


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