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My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jul 10 2014 8:57am
by dr_frost_dk
Well after driving 1500+km so far in total on my bikes i think it is time to post them :)
Post #1 will be the old one (now stock without motor)
Post #2 will be current one
Post #3 will be reserved for future power BMX (when ill get started on that i don't know....)

This bike clocked 1300+km before i finally got the 2 one complete, it was fun to have gears (3) but it was pretty slow acceleration wise as i configured it to 12V to keep the top speed down, the motor is lifted right of the DM50 and put on with car exhaust clips, it is still configured in 78KV and only did about a 1000RPM on the bike, gearing is done by a modified 8 Tooth sprocket on the motor to a 44 Tooth sprocket, then from 32 Tooth to 24 Tooth on the rear wheel.
Speed at gears: (1 & 2 was only mainly used)
1. 20km/h
2. 28km/h
3. 35km/h (overdrive as the motor would not pull it away unless going down hill or in the wind)
2 Picture was when it was dismantled, just to show the config before i went back to being a normal bike

Motor: 80100 from DM50 (really one of the worst motors i have ever used, goes through bearings like crazy)
Battery: 8x 16AH (4s2p - 12V 32A)
Controller: Heavily modified SS-90 for COOLING (pictures will come)
Speed: 12V - 25-35km/t (25V - 45km/t+)
Range: 20km (due to crappy motor)

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jul 10 2014 8:57am
by dr_frost_dk
Current bike:
Friction Drive, POWERFUL 3000W Acceleration, good speed, LOW noise, SMOOTH drive :)
Done 2000km so far and have been a totally nice ride all the way, even thou i have goon through 6+ tires so far :p, but at a cost of 0$ it is only the time it takes to change rear tire that is a nuisance :)
One of the fun things with this bike is the power, the acceleration from 15 to 40km/h is really good :)

Motor with 24 Grit Belt Sander "paper"

Motor: Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 6374-192kv
Controller: Hobbyking YEP 90A (2-6S)
Battery: 6x 6s5000mAh LiPo, for longer range i have my old 6s15Ah battery (VERY worn so capacity is MUCH less) i add to the pack with extra balance + power wires.
Speed: 22.2V - 40-44km/t
Range: 40+km/h = 20km, 25km/h = 40+km
Power Usage: approx 11Wh at "economy driving"

At the moment im still in the process of adjusting friction drive to have minimal wear on tire, i do have many sources of (free) used tires so i don't mind having to change them now and then to get this right, before i commit to the same tires that is on the Blue bike (Schwalbe Marathon Plus 5mm Puncture-Free tires)
Even thou it goes through tires a bit fast it is by far the BEST EV i have made, noise is VERY low, speed is good (frame and brakes needs to be upgraded for more speed....), range is very good also.

More info to come and pictures of the friction drive.

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jul 10 2014 8:58am
by dr_frost_dk
2' Mountain-bike with disc brakes, 8 Gear direct drive from VW Viper Motor
This is the second bike i make with direct drive, friction drive is a bit troublesome in the snow we have here right now, the glue fails, snow buildup causes friction to be lost and almost no power is being transfered to the rear wheel, also one other thing missing in the fiction drive setup is gearing, when taking on STEEP hills the whole system heats up VERY MUCH because i only have "1" gear that is rated to 45-50kph (22.2V), this new bike should have a 1' gear that has a top speed below 20kph giving it the ability to climb hills with ease
As you can see im using a "reconstructed" viper motor using a 2300W 260KV motor, the original DC motor sucked very much, it drew 100W at 12V doing nothing more then driving itself with no load, this little RC motor uses about 8-12W at the same RPM.
Now will this setup hold???, well these viper motors are rated at giving an output up to 27NM.... so hopefully it will hold, the Alien controller is already set to medium acceleration and low start power so hopefully it will work, i need to do a little bit of work to the bike and make a sprocket and fixing the motor to the frame before this is up and running

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jul 22 2014 2:00pm
by dr_frost_dk
Does anybody have an idea for the best friction drive wheel/material?

So far i have done:
bike/moped tire/wheel rubber - good contact in dry conditions, NONE in wet, gets grinded down pretty fast
Belt sander sandpaper - This works in dry and wet, so far have done 80 and 150 grit, 150 seems to eat tires faster as it has less grip and prone to slippage making it a temporary belt sander.....

Next thing to do is to make a steel or ALU ring that fits on the motor with a circle "dip" in it to get it to grip more of the wheel and have groves in it to increase friction

Besides that im am planning on buying 40-60A controller instead of the 90A controller to minimize wear also..

Update - 28 July
New tire (again :mrgreen: ), and 24 Grit Belt Sander paper, this really seems to minimize wear as there is pretty much no slippage between motor and tire.

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jul 31 2014 6:36am
by EV_Ron

Your FD build is strong validation of the FD info I have recently read from Adrian, spinningmagnet, and kepler. I'm on the verge of buying the components you have listed, or similar. Would love to see a pic of the port side (left) of your motor mount and mount to seat tube- looks like a simple U-clamp, a heavy hinge, and a 2"x4" aluminum plate for the motor.

Here are my brief notes after reading 100s of posts on the topic:
18.3. Friction materials
He said before that he just runs the can surface right to the tire, but here he says
40 grit belt sander material. ... &start=250
But it’s a year into his development./
Re: Commuter Booster - <1kg Friction Drive by Kepler » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:35 am
Later Kepler wrote I am going to try a contact adhesive next time. Much cheaper, water clean-up, suitable for constant wet exposure, temps up to 130C from memory. Should be enough.

Do you like the 26-grit paper? What adhesive do you use?

Oh, and tires:

19. Tires
smoother seems better, Kmart $13
really nice smooth slick tire at wally world for $11.
2 26x2.125 tires from this guy on ebay both for 18.50 including shipping.
Dunham's Sporting Goods for as low as 6.99.
Check out prices at Dick's and maybe even places like Gander Mountain.
Friction drive rollers tend to eat the edges off the nubs of mountain bike tires. ... on-and-FAQ

19.1. Hutchinson kevlar
Diane_K I replaced the 26" white wall with a 26x1.35 Hutchinson kevlar re-enforced city slick.

19.2. Adrian’s Commuter Booster uses Gatorskin tire

19.3. Intense tires

19.4. General soft/firm tire results- from Spinningmagnet
The soft rubber tire with a round profile (good for cornering) noticeably wore a bit, but the roller had a small contact patch... and to be fair, I was really hammering the drive and breaking traction around 2000W. The flat-tread (wide contact patch) hard-rubber beach cruiser tire is showing no signs of wear. ... &start=125


Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jul 31 2014 7:13am
by dr_frost_dk
The 24 Grit sandpaper, for belt sander!!, VERY important as normal sandpaper just gets eaten
It is glued on with lanes of Loctite super glue like this:
loctite.jpeg (9.19 KiB) Viewed 4110 times
I use about 6-9 lanes and just glue the sandpaper down a "section" at a time and when im close to joining the ends on the motor i cut down piece by piece until it fits perfectly.

Tires, well the ones that lasts the longest by thread pattern are the ones with a "lane" all the way, rubber hardness is also a factor, schwalbe makes a tire for fixie bikes that is "skid resistant" as that type of brake tends to lock up rear wheel
But the Plus looks very interesting and has a LOT of contact to the motor like the SKID tire

Also the Marathon Plus Flatless in 45c (as wide as possible) look very good ... -plus.html

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Aug 11 2014 12:00pm
by dr_frost_dk
To keep speed down i made this today.
Did not have any zener diodes so i opted for 5x 1N4148 to do the job, the button is for "unlimited power", else throttle is always limited and right now it sits at 25-28km/h with this mod, the button can be used as an overtake function :)
Very easy mod to do and works as it should, now for some testing on ESC heat......

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Aug 19 2014 5:06pm
by EV_Ron

Good info on smaller controller to reduce power, and on the switch for instantaneous full power. Are you considering power reduction solely for increased endurance or to reduce tire engagement wear?

My use will include 50% pedaling, but require frequent 2-12 mph (3- 20 kmh) acceleration perhaps 3-4 times per minute, much 8-15 mph constant speed, and for now rarely any speed above that. I am considering 4S or 5S, a 5065 series, and the Turnigy programmable AE 80A with "very soft" start, but it is $80- not that it's horrendous, but my goal is to have a small fleet of these bikes and cost per kit is important. If I can use a $20 controller by keeping current down that would be great, or by using a temporary "passing" switch.

That said, I am still in the foundation stage- sp. the mounting bracket. Here's my logic:

I’m a simple guy and I think the people who are going to want to do what I’ve done are simple, therefore not having to spend $200-300 on a mount or using a CNC device is important.

I always ask- especially for prototyping- what do I have laying around that will do the job; later I can find the right, common pieces inexpensively, TODAY, locally. And most importantly then I can show someone how they can buy their parts at the local hardware store and assemble it same as mine.

So, looking at your motor attachment bracket, I’d swear you only used a U-bolt, and then you hung the motor swing plate on one of the bolt sections of the u-bolt. I’d thought of this but couldn’t find a u-bolt to test. Well, while I was looking for different bracket methods (initially came up with plumbing 3/4" T and 9" pipe to mount to the seat tube, kind of like kepler's) I first found a u-bolt and then a gate latch, both of witch would mount on the main vertical.

Please take a look at my photos (I’m not asking for a critique of the bolt diameters, the plate thickness, or my “motor”, nor of the 15 years of rust, or mixed spacers- this is just to conceptualize easily obtainable parts that require little if any cutting, milling, drilling etc... ; instead just screw it into place.

I post these to give others ideas that might breathe life into FD’s via inexpensive, easily obtainable, sturdy, relatively light weight mounting hardware, removable from one bike and slapped on another quickly, easily adjustable up and down the vertical bike tube.

The first photo is an ancient U-bolt around the bike’s main upright, on one leg of which I mount the motor arm plate. I like this one best. Simple, easy, inexpensive.
Mounting bracket- P8190304.JPG
U-bolt mounting bracket
Mounting bracket- P8190304.JPG (136.74 KiB) Viewed 3771 times
The next 2 photos show a "motor" disengaged and engaged from the tire. You'll see my U-bolt assy, swing arm, and “Motor”.
U-bolt bracket-disengaged P8190302.JPG
U-bolt bracket- disengaged
U-bolt bracket-disengaged P8190302.JPG (144.3 KiB) Viewed 3771 times
U-bolt bracket- engaged P8190303.JPG
U-bolt bracket- engaged
U-bolt bracket- engaged P8190303.JPG (142.21 KiB) Viewed 3771 times
With 1/4" U-bolt and perhaps 2-3 ft-lbs of torque on the bolts and a thin PVC pipe between u-bolt clamp and vertical tube, I can barely rotate the bracket with maybe 10 ft-lbs of force- about what I expect the 1-1.5 HP Turnigy 5065 might exert to one side or the other at a moment arm of perhaps 2-3"- point is 1/2" U-bracket should be more than sturdy enough to resist the motor-tire engagement force and lateral/rotational force.

My question is, did you use a heavy duty u-bolt as your mounting bracket and hinge pin? Mine is only 1/4"x20, but I see 1/2" diam. (12mm) thread is readily available.

I'd post the "gate bracket" mount and the 3/4" T plumbing seat post mount if somebody really has a burning desire to see them :oops: . Then again, if hjoore (2011) and others can prototype brackets in wood, then I can do it with a rusty u-joint and motor mock-up. :)

Jacksonville, FL

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Aug 27 2014 2:19am
by dr_frost_dk
Sorry for the late reply, im in the middle of making a Urethan friction wheel and alot of other upgrades to the black bike, ill take some pictures of my mount so you can see the way i did it, my way should cost very little, it however have room for improvement as it needs a "stopper", at the moment i have a second u-bolt that holds a cable that keeps the motor from swinging up over the wheel and locking itself between the fender and wheel...

Other things are a shift to LiPo, using a mixed of old battery's and new ones, had some money issues so im ordering the last new battery's soon, so far i have cut down weight with about 1.5KG (makes a noticeable difference :) ), going from 6s LiFe to 6s LiPo also raises voltage giving it more power and speed has been raised to 45km/h

Pictures of motor mount to come soon, also hopefully within a week ill post if successful with the new friction wheel and make a "recipe" for all you out there on how to do it, the 24Grit sandpaper works but still wears down tires, the speed/power limiter in the throttle has helped but still not enough.

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Aug 27 2014 7:50pm
by yoyoman
I'd love to see any designs that are recently being used. I am looking to get a 20" folding bike, and I think friction drives will allow me to maintain the lighter weight of the bike I intend to buy.

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Sep 18 2014 3:16pm
by dr_frost_dk
LONG test today, after getting a new LiPo 6x 6s 5000mAh battery and using it with my OLD 15Ah 6s battery it took my Black bike out for a 66KM ride (41Miles)
Usage 783Wh - 34.5Ah
12Wh pr KM / 7.5Wh pr Mile
This was done in "Eco-mode" at 25-28km/h (15-17Mph) so it took a LONG time hehe, now i gotta lie down to heal my a*s :p

My old battery does not have much power left since i only had very little capacity left after i used 34.5Ah (cells at 3.51 - 3.58V)

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Sep 28 2014 4:01am
by dr_frost_dk
Milestone achieved :mrgreen:, 2000+km driving so far.
Hopefully ill get the PU wheel made soon as i gone through a lot of tires so far.
Other faults are the dLux controller overheated so much that it blew the Caps!!!, it still works thou, have put a cap as close to the ESC as possible on it's own wires, so had to switch over to the YEP controller that i always have with me as a backup, also have a 12V soldering iron and other tools :)

EDIT, and finally updated post #2 for the new battery, speed etc.

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jan 22 2015 5:37pm
by dr_frost_dk
Well been some time since an update.

Still using my black bike, did not get the time to make a pu wheel for it...
So far it has surpassed 3000km but the damm cheap bike "computer" is failing a lot so i stop counting.
Switched to a ... et-esc-hv/, it took some time setting up and also i use linux so had to make a VirtualBOX with W7 and it works that way :), but after setting up and testing it REALLY REALLY works, this so far in a lot (be it many very cheap and a few expensive) is now the BEST ESC i have used, REALLY low heat in motor and ESC (BIG heatsink :) ).

I got a new bike, a mountain bike with disc brakes and will be making it up over the next few weeks to a 8Gear 2300W bike :), so the BMX is now put off for now and will be swapping post #3 with this new bike.
10933221_10205566460183483_1987576964_n.jpg (49.99 KiB) Viewed 2840 times

Re: My Electro Bikes (Post #1-3)

Posted: Jan 29 2015 8:20pm
by dr_frost_dk
Updated Post #3 to new project, updates will follow, will also do a picture series on how to mod viper motor