Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 12kW

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Allex   1 GW

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Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 12kW

Post by Allex » Aug 22 2014 3:10am

Double the power, double the range, read and find out how I did. If you are interested in the mods I've done, I can fix you up with a new 18650 Battery or Adaptto Controller.
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Stock Bomber is a great machine and it has enough power for every application. But this is why we are here on ES, to modify things.
Delivery:
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Stock Bike with Quigley motorsport fenders:
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Stock RST fork is ok for on road use, but when you go off road you better invest in something else. I went for 2013 888 Marzocchi.
The weight is about the same but it is a huge difference when I try to compress both forks fast.
Marzocchi 888 RC3 Evo V.2 Fork 2013 is a LOT faster in return it is also much softer.
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I could not feel the small bumps when driving down a big hill. When doing the same with the stock RST the arms where numb and had to work hard to have the bike in control. With this thing I just felt like I was flying over all obstacles. This must be the best upgrade ever for the stock bike! It feels stiffer to not so much flex(front back) in the fork.
Stock front brakes now fits perfectly without adapter
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Now for the Brakes, Stock Magura MT2 are great, but I decided to get something else and see if it was even better.
Hope Tech 3 V4 with 203mm Hope saw rotors.
I was thinking that Maguras was much lighter than hopes, but is was barely 50g. difference!
They don't look as big as I thought they would, in fact I like the looks, its like a miniature of MC brakes!
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Hope front was easy, just mount it on the 888 fork without adapters.
Back needs Hope mount G. Actually, if you use non floating rotors(floating are thicker) the stock Magura rear mount works good.
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This starts to be a pretty good bike now. What else can you do with it? I decided to get a new powerful Sine Wave controller. Currently the best out there is Adaptto.
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It cost a bit of money but for a reason:
Motor is silent!
Small but powerful at 12kW
Integrated display - Forget Cycle Analyst
Highly customizable on the fly at your local trail - everything can be changed directly from the screen, forget PC connections.
Charge through the controller - superfast charging at up to 70Amps(if your battery can take it) Forget messy bulk charging.
BMS option. See how the cells are doing and adjust the balancing needs.
And a lot more.

The package includes a temp sensor(kty83), so this is what I will start with. Need to open up that motor and install it inside.
Did not have a gear puller so I took two long threaded rods, put them in the disc brake holes and slammed light with a hammer. Mark the cover sides with some tape to put it back as it was.
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Next, access the black wires which goes to the halls. One end of the thermistor will go together with the black(ground) the other one(signal, white) will go out of the motor axle.
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Solder the wires on and put shrink tube on the exposed parts, only leaving the themistor visible.
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Disconnect the black ground wire, the one that goes out through the axle and solder one end of the thermistor, cover everything with shrink tube again.
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Next we need to put the little guy inside the windings, find a place where it can sit tight. Put some thermal paste in that area and press carefully the little one in, this way we will have a good contact with the windings for more accurate readings.
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After that, secure it with some high temp silicone gasket, now he will not go anywhere
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New 10AWG phase cables coming through Crystalyte 5403, we like to join 10kW club here...
Removed the silicone insulation and replaced it with heat shrink in the place where it will be going through the groove. This way I don't need to modify the shaft. Win!
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Testing the temp sensor - seems to work. Heated motor up a bit with a hair dryer = 40°C
Still waiting for thicker AWG wires for the motor. I can then finish my hubbie and the new 30A charger!
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Had an Old Mac, can finally used for something now. See that the handles are missing on top? They went to the controller mounting.
Mac's are great, nice thick aluminum
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Made aluminum mountings for the controller, look how small it is compared to stock 18FET
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Fits nicely
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Wired the Key switch to the display:

You have four wires coming from display(Gray cable), you need to place a switch on the red wire.

How to wire up the throttle with regen to Adaptto:
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Wiring Crystalyte Halls to Adaptto:
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Stock Crystalyte 18FET controller draws about 65Amps. Here is a first test what this bike with Crystalyte 5403 can do at 100Amps


Finished with my charging setup
1500W PSU@55V30A
Turnigy 10AWG wires to a 30A coil(Adaptto) with a Speakon Connector to the bike.
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Speakon connector is really neat. And can handle more current than stock XLR, up to 30Amps I believe. I will be drawing 20Amps so this is safe.
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Going of to a road trip - Moscow, Russia
Have to meet up with some Adaptto gurus, and make a huge battery for the bike.
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Here is a video of dissasemblement:


Met up with some EV-masterminds and their bikes. Crazy configs with more than 10kW of power with headlights at 5000lumen...crazy bright and awsome throw. They charge bikes super fast at 3000Watts with small PSUs
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My new batteries are already waiting to be welded and fitted in to the frame, 280psc 18650 cells
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LG DBHE 2 cells, this will be a 20s14p pack
Specifications:
1.LG IMR18650 high drain li-ion battery
2.Nominal Capacity: 2500mAh;
3.Max. discharge: 35A
4.Cut-off voltage: 2.5V
5. Charge Current: 4A

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Nice spot welding, this is one half of the pack - 10s@37V nominal:
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If you want a simple and reliable solution(Adapttos recommendation) just install a regular apartment breaker, I use C63A, it angages at about 135 DC Amps for me and you can use whatever battery voltage.
And you can say goodbye to all prechargers, no need them anymore!
http://www.abb.com/product/seitp329/49a ... 9AAC100489
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Stock bomber battery:
80v, 18Ah, 1500Wh, 11.5Kg (Really 1368Wh in real world)
This battery:
84v, 35Ah, 3000Wh, 12.5Kg (Really 2382Wh in real world)
So double the range at almost same weight and better punch.
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Now when I have a better battery lets push the current a bit more, in Boost mode I have it set to 130Amps
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Tested for top speed, 120km/h:
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Yup, this is at 10.4kW and 74V battery with Crystalyte 5403 motor

Here is a video at Dusk on a russian countryside road, doing 116km/h
Last edited by Allex on Apr 15 2015 4:22am, edited 26 times in total.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 22 2014 3:10am

More to come...

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Samer   10 W

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Samer » Aug 22 2014 5:45am

Very nice Work man, you bomber looking sick...
i tried to email adaptto but they never replay emails ;)
do you know anyone that i could talk to ? cheers

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 22 2014 5:51am

Thank you!
I can help you with a controller, will PM you.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Hugechainring » Aug 22 2014 3:32pm

Wow, nice work and excellent documentation.

Would you mind telling us who you bought your LG 18650 cells from? Did you use a buying agent to get your spot welder from Taobao?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 22 2014 5:02pm

Thanks!
I got the cells from Andreym, he also did the build on the battery. I think he bought it from Taobao
Check his post:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25#p900804

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Ohbse » Aug 22 2014 6:01pm

Awesome post Allex, very interesting stuff :D I'm just about to order 200x HE2 cells, all positive experience so far I hope? Have you got any more pics of the battery build? Did some parallel strips get added across the other parallel groups of 4 cells? How did you terminate the pack, wire gauge/connectors etc. what sort of battery sag do you see with 10kw from FOC voltage?

Are you using a thumb throttle for variable regen?

Sorry for barrage of questions ;)

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Brentis » Aug 22 2014 8:37pm

:shock:
Dude, it was hard to see how fast were you going the second time you took your hands off the bars. How fast?
Looked like 80+kph. You are either crazy or have 20 pound brass balls. Maybe a lil of both. :wink:
All the same, the stability at that speed is impressive.
Great upgrades.

Congrats, enjoy.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 23 2014 1:13am

Beautiful ride Alex!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 23 2014 7:00am

Thx Luke!

Brentis, when you go 120km/h and slow down to 80 the difference in speed and wind resistance is huge, so it feels like you are crusing very slow in comparison. The bike is very stable so I have no problem in letting go in Cruise control mode(adaptto) at 85(was 85km/h in the video) on a flat. :)

Ohbse, funny you should ask about the cells. I added a pic about my breaker for the battery pack.
The cells are great performers, sag is minimal, I see around 4-5V sag at 11kW.
Yup Additional parallel strips are added to put less stress on the cells. Andrey used 0,3mm nickel strip, really hevay duty compared to regular 0,1.
8AWG wire is used together with xt150 connectors.
Do not have variable regen, just the stock on/off, kind of used by it now, especially with my riding style in the trails - you need all or nothing.

But I encountered some problems after about 15 cycles. I found two bad parallel strings. They slowly loose voltage at rest.
I had to cut the strip and look for a dud cell that was causing it.
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I did not want to break the hole string so I cut 3 at a time and let it rest for a few hours and then measure to see if it was some of them that I isolated
Finally found the bad guy after isolating 9 out of 14. This cell was loosing voltage rapidly. From 4,2 down to 1,5 in 24 hours. I could even feel that it was a bit warmer than the rest.
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One more parallel string to go now
Here is number 3 wich I have to look at. This one drops the voltage not as fast as the first one.
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I have one spare LG cell left so I really hope that this is the last one to fix. It is quite time consuming job. Don't really know what was causing this. Could be the cell itself or maybe a damage during the spotwelding.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by joss76 » Aug 23 2014 12:19pm

on my first battery I have welded with 4 spots and with too big Ampere , and I had some cells HS , now , I make several little spot ( 6 or 8 ) and I no have this problem ..
but a wrong cell is also possible

I will need help too , I not have reply for Adaptto controllers ...

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 23 2014 1:13pm

Will send you a PM about controller.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Ohbse » Aug 23 2014 4:29pm

That's exactly the sort of scenario I was worried about! How are you going to replace that cell in middle of the pack? Possible to very carefully cut it out?

I will pre test all my parallel groups and hopefully catch any issues before it's a giant block.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 23 2014 4:36pm

As you can see I have already cut it out with help of a Dremel.
Then you just push it out and paste a new one.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by macribs » Aug 24 2014 9:07pm

Wow all this extra power and speed just from changing batteries.
Finally I've seen some RL footage what one can expect changing from one battery chemistry to another.
I was almost dead set on going for Lifepo4 batteries. Not so sure anymore.
I mean it seems to me a set up like you have now Allex will need no extra caution when charging compared to the stock batterypack?
The BMS balance the cells and make sure they are not over-charged? Can you charge batteries while sleeping without fearing a fire?

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Ohbse » Aug 24 2014 10:02pm

Why would you need to charge while you sleep if you can charge in less than an hour?

My 18km one way journey requires ~600wh. My charger runs at 1.8kw. This will therefore take ~20 minutes to replenish. Who needs to sleep?

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by izeman » Aug 25 2014 3:59am

Allex wrote:As you can see I have already cut it out with help of a Dremel.
Then you just push it out and paste a new one.
you said that you could feel the bad's temperature was higher. wouldn't it be a good idea to charge as high amp as you can and checks temps of individual cells with an infrared thermometer and identify the dud cell that way?
it would hurt my heart to cut those nickel strips ...

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Aug 25 2014 4:33am

Macribs, lifepo is still a great chem. They are safer than li-ion. But very heavy and big copmared to li-ion at same capacity.
Of course, when you have a complete plug and play charging solution, you minimize the risks. Adaptto helps alot!
And yes, I never charge overnight, dont have to because my pack fills up in 90minutes.
Izeman: when the bad cell is connected with others it slowly takes down all of the cells with it. So I could only feel the difference when the cell was isolated. Yeah it hurts a lot to cut it!
Last edited by Allex on Aug 25 2014 1:29pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by GCinDC » Aug 25 2014 7:20am

epic build. just missing variable regen.. :P

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by sacko » Aug 25 2014 9:22am

Awesome build, nice work!

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by GiantEV » Sep 16 2014 1:56pm

Very nice ride!

Have you done anything to prevent damage from water?

I've read that a few people have had that issue, which I would like to prevent during our monsoon rainy season here.

I'd like to get the mini-e soon and wonder if it can be mounted inside an enclosure and still stay cool without airflow when being pushed hard.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by upek » Sep 16 2014 2:01pm

If you planning to use charge feature I recommend to use external heatsink bolted directly to adaptto. (heatsink outside, controller inside)

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 16 2014 2:44pm

Alex well done good thread. With the adaptto controller you charge thought the controller. What power supply do you use. I have 2 12 volt PSU,s is this all I'll need. I still need to build a battery as well.

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER » Sep 16 2014 3:05pm

Yup very clean build!
Allex regarding your apartment switch so when using this switch I don't have to use precharge resistor?
Nothing is perfect until I touch it...

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth Bomber goes Adaptto at 11kW

Post by Allex » Sep 16 2014 6:10pm

GiantEV wrote:Very nice ride!

Have you done anything to prevent damage from water?

I've read that a few people have had that issue, which I would like to prevent during our monsoon rainy season here.

I'd like to get the mini-e soon and wonder if it can be mounted inside an enclosure and still stay cool without airflow when being pushed hard.
I ride only before the rain comes so no watersealings, honestly there are very few e-bikes that can take water. Most of them begin to rust after the first ride in the rain. I am really dissapointed that nobody does a better job at theese prices! Anyway, the controller can take more moisture than the stock Crystalyte, this goes for the hall connectors as well because they are waterproof.
About inside mounting. I would not recommend using it at 6kW inside It's a 6FET design so things get hot pretty fast if you floor it. I would try to use Max-e, it stays really cool at 6kW.
upek wrote:If you planning to use charge feature I recommend to use external heatsink bolted directly to adaptto. (heatsink outside, controller inside)
I charge at 20Amps with a max-e, no heat issues. But if you plan on pushing 30Amps or more, probably!
Rodney64 wrote:Alex well done good thread. With the adaptto controller you charge thought the controller. What power supply do you use. I have 2 12 volt PSU,s is this all I'll need. I still need to build a battery as well.
Thx, maybe some one could benefit from it. As for PSU, I use a CAR1248FPB 55V@~30A, this gives me 1500W of charge power, so a 1500Wh pack is done in 60minutes. But they are rare today. There is several links to other PSU in the Adaptto thread.
2x12V will do, but you will not be able to charge as fast as I do. Better to have higher voltage than 24V because the controller will heat up as it needs to step up a lot too your current battery Voltage.
If you need a more powerful PSU in the future, you can look at this one:
Eaton APR48-3G Rectifier
Input voltage(Nominal) 220/240V
Line Frequency 50-60Hz
Efficiency 92%

DC Output
Max Output Power 1800W@48V
Output Voltage 43-57.5VDC
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/E ... 06828.html
You can find them cheaper if you take a used one. Best thing is that they are very quet and very small for their power.
MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER wrote:Yup very clean build!
Allex regarding your apartment switch so when using this switch I don't have to use precharge resistor?
No, those who use this breaker do not run with a precharge :)

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