Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by amberwolf » Sep 09 2014 12:48pm

"Peppy".... ;)




Totally OT, but BTW, in this pic:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/do ... ?id=146470
the white footrest pedals/crankarms look (except for lack of rust) exactly like the ones off the Murry Biotech bike I rode prior to the Columbia I later turned into DayGlo Avenger. I don't have any of the MBT bike pieces anymore, but parts of it were used for prototyping some of the chain and friction drives I started out with on DGA.

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by nicobie » Sep 09 2014 1:24pm

I'd think twice about switching out that beefy fork for a DH bike one.

In the early days before going to the big fork, I about shat my pants every time you nailed the brakes after the straight. Talk about flex! :shock: :shock:

PS: Nice looking kid ...
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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 09 2014 2:11pm

no matter flex at 110mph or even 180mph :P

rocketman have a bicyle with very normal fork and can reach: 285km/h ( 177mph)

The bike is named Kamikaze





This French genious is a Rocketman/Laserman of the age of my father but have many video of extreme test with eurodance background music !

He is preparing the Kamikaze IV now :twisted: :twisted: with just... 4000Newton of trust!



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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by agniusm » Sep 09 2014 3:34pm

These people like LFP and rocketman don't die own death. FŪck, pure cosmos

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by Martin A » Sep 09 2014 6:22pm

Great stuff Luke, but as someone who has yet to build his first e-bike I have a query.
liveforphysics wrote:
...I'm running a Sevcon gen4 size 6 controller setup with special firmware. It draws >700A off the battery, which is 117vdc fully charged. It's currently a 50Ah pack, but I'm thinking about going 8p 28s with 56 of this 4s Nanotech pack.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _tech.html

Then removing the heavy duty GP superbike dual disk front end, and replacing it with a light weight bicycle front and brake again. Possibly a road bike fork and aero rim/tire setup. It has no front brake, and for drag I think it's regen is adequate brake alone.

Switching battery and front end should shave ~55lbs, and the second size6 controller and cables will be maybe another 12lbs.
So net reduction in weight of ~40-45lbs, 2x torque and HP, and re-gearing it for ~165mph.

It still won't be an impressive bicycle for Dauntless, but I do think it would be peppy enough for most members. ;-)
Do I understand correctly that you will run two controllers for one motor or am I some kind of Limey Idiot?

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 09 2014 6:28pm

Martin A wrote:Great stuff Luke, but as someone who has yet to build his first e-bike I have a query.
liveforphysics wrote:
...I'm running a Sevcon gen4 size 6 controller setup with special firmware. It draws >700A off the battery, which is 117vdc fully charged. It's currently a 50Ah pack, but I'm thinking about going 8p 28s with 56 of this 4s Nanotech pack.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _tech.html

Then removing the heavy duty GP superbike dual disk front end, and replacing it with a light weight bicycle front and brake again. Possibly a road bike fork and aero rim/tire setup. It has no front brake, and for drag I think it's regen is adequate brake alone.

Switching battery and front end should shave ~55lbs, and the second size6 controller and cables will be maybe another 12lbs.
So net reduction in weight of ~40-45lbs, 2x torque and HP, and re-gearing it for ~165mph.

It still won't be an impressive bicycle for Dauntless, but I do think it would be peppy enough for most members. ;-)
Do I understand correctly that you will run two controllers for one motor or am I some kind of Limey Idiot?

It's kinda a tricky process. The motor gets opened up, and the parallel connections between windings get cut apart and re-terminated to bring out 6 leads rather than just 3. Then the Sevcon's have to be wired and setup and programmed to run in a master/slave configuration.

Then you get to run 2 sevcon's to a single motor. :-)
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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by Punx0r » Sep 10 2014 6:55am

Giving 154kW (1400A @ ~110V) and ~200 ft.lb of torque, all at ~90% motor efficiency?

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by Architectonic » Sep 12 2014 5:26am

So this is the worlds fastest tandem bicycle? :lol:
Punx0r wrote:Giving 154kW (1400A @ ~110V) and ~200 ft.lb of torque, all at ~90% motor efficiency?
90%? I doubt it...

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by speedmd » Sep 12 2014 7:26am

no matter flex at 110mph or even 180mph :P

rocketman have a bicyle with very normal fork and can reach: 285km/h ( 177mph)
Except for the large extra brace and handle bar clip-ons across the fork tubes that effectively eliminate/greatly reduce rider loads on the steerer tube /crown and the steering dampener added. Both mods would greatly reduce front end flex and improve control of the front wheel without relying on the fork crown entirely. Love the two or is it a three stage rocket motor setup.

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by liveforphysics » Sep 12 2014 11:33am

Architectonic wrote:So this is the worlds fastest tandem bicycle? :lol:
Punx0r wrote:Giving 154kW (1400A @ ~110V) and ~200 ft.lb of torque, all at ~90% motor efficiency?

90%? I doubt it...
I have no idea what efficiency will be at 1400A. I only know that the iron isn't saturated at 2x phase current. It will be exciting to dyno and find out!
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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by steveo » Sep 29 2014 11:40am

Luke,

you got some gigantic balls of steel my friend..

this is the most crazy shit i've every seen..

love the vids and most of all the back seat on the bike...

and you sig tooo.. halarious

"My bicycle completes the standing quarter mile in 11.502seconds at 110.56mph."

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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by MitchJi » Oct 11 2014 2:26pm

HI Luke,

I assume you are going to race a Model S P85D (or a Porsche 918 Spyder :twisted: )? BTW the cheapest car on the list is the 55k Shelby GT500, congratulations Luke :mrgreen: :!: :
http://gas2.org/2014/10/10/5-supercars- ... el-s-p85d/
5 Supercars Slower Than The Tesla Model S P85D

Elon Musk’s big secret was a 691 horsepower all-wheel drive Tesla Model S P85D which he claims is the fastest four-door sedan ever built. With a 3.2 second sprint from 0 to 60 MPH, Musk is right to describe it as one’s own persona roller coaster, and the Model S can indeed rank itself amongst the world’s fastest cars.

Life is all about perspective though, and while 3.2 seconds is indeed quick, it helps to compare that number to some other well-know supercars. Here’s a list of five vehicles the Model S P85D can out-accelerate in a race to 60 MPH.

2014 Porsche 911 GT3
Once the crown jewel of the Porsche lineup, the 911 GT3 now plays second fiddle to the 918 Spyder as the top-performing vehicle. That’s not to say it’s by any means slow though, as Porsche officially quotes a 0 to 62 MPH time of 3.5 seconds. Some outlets have managed to do even better than that, and with a 3.8 liter turbocharged V6 to boot. It’s the smallest engine in this lineup, and with just 475 horsepower one of the least powerful.

The secret is in a low curb weight that allows for superb acceleration, albeit acceleration that can’t match the all-wheel drive Model S. In fairness though, the Porsche 918 Spyder can go from 0 to 62 MPH in as little as 2.5 seconds…but it also costs $887,000, more than all the other cars in this list combined.

2014 Shelby GT500
Ford blew the car world away when it rolled out the 662 horsepower Shelby GT500 at the 2011 Los Angeles International Auto Show, ushering in a new era of high-horsepower muscle cars. Boasting a supercharged 5.8 liter V8 and a top speed of 202 MPH, the GT500 offers the most horsepower value for your dollar at just $55,000 new.

But while it has a higher top speed than the new top Tesla, the huge V8 still takes 3.5 seconds to push the Mustang from 0 to 60 MPH. That’s a third of a second slower than the Tesla, which happens to outweigh the super ‘Stang by about 1,000-lbs. Instant torque will do that.

2014 SRT Viper
While the GT500 has a pretty big motor, it is absolutely dwarfed by the 8.3 liter V10 found in the 2014 SRT Viper. Cranking out a healthy 640 horsepower without the use of forced induction, the Viper also comes in at a relatively svelte 3,354-lbs, which lets it race down the quarter-mile in just 11.5 seconds.

Compared to almost any other car, the 3.3 second run to 60 MPH is almost inconceivably fast, but the Tesla Model S is quicker by a blink. Viper sales have been pretty low because of the $100,000 starting price, though Tesla has had no such problem there, with buyers having to wait months to take delivery of their electric cars. Chrysler actually had to cut the price of the Viper by some 20% just to stimulate sales.

Ferrari 599 GTO
If I were to ever own a Ferrari, this is almost certainly the one I’d own. Its 6.0 liter V12 makes spine-tingling 661 horsepower for what Ferrari claims is a 3.35 second sprint to 60 MPH and a top speed of 208 MPH, plus a whole suite of race-bred performance technology that put this supercar in a category all its own.

Yet it’s still not quite as quick as the latest and greatest Tesla, and for the $489,000 price tag plus uber rarity (just 125 were made I believe), it’s by far the rarest car on this list.

McLaren F1
Technically the all-wheel drive Tesla isn’t faster than the McLaren F1, but rather just as fast as it shares the same 3.2 second 0 to 60 MPH sprint. That’s because the original hypercar is the bar Elon Musk set in terms of desired performance, and by Nikola he’s done it. It’s fair to mention that the McLaren F1 debuted 22 years ago, and at an astronomical price point (which has since risen past $10 million for one of the 106 units produced). Even though it’s more thab two decades old though, the 6.1 liter V12 still crammed out 627 horsepower, and it only weighs a little over 2,500-lbs, quite literally half what the AWD Model S comes in at.

There’s an old saying that there’s no replacement for displacement, but Tesla is showing that electric motors are more than up to the task. While it may not necessarily be as fast as these other cars thanks to a 155 MPH top speed, it’s more than up to the task of keeping these cars in check in your standard contest of acceleration.
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by MitchJi » Oct 11 2014 3:21pm

Hi Luke,
liveforphysics wrote:It's a 1st prototype and development test motor for what became the 2013 Zero motor. It's an extremely efficient PMAC 3 phase air cooled inrunner. I have fitted, dyno tested and tuned, and raced with a Perm132 (modded), an Agni 95R (brushes setup by Cedric Lynch himself), the big brushless MARS, the 5kW golden motor and the biggest 10kW golden motor.

This motor has higher continous power capability than any 2 of them combined. This motor also isn't saturated even if you pump in enough current to make > 200ft-lbs. (I'm going to be pumping enough current into it to do that soon.)
liveforphysics wrote:We did it mainly for the heat reason you mentioned, as hall melting failure was our demise at the last race event, as well as a previous race.

The second reason you mentioned wasn't really something we were needing for this application, but WOW! It just make it silky smooth, no more chug-chug-chug at low RPM's as each hall sensor latches and tells the fets to switch the next coil on, it's just silky now, you can make the motor spin so slowly you can barely see it moving at all, and it's just perfectly smooth with no torque ripple noticed at all now. Really feels like electric power should feel at all RPM's rather than little bumps of torque pulses when you're at low speeds.

It's fun having this much torque too, I just nosed the front wheel up to a staircase outside a strip mall, and in a very slow controlled calm way, just torqued up the 10 stairs or so and rode along the sidewalk path at the top. It felt even easier than walking up stairs, though the seat does kinda smash into your ass as the rear tire goes over each step. I don't know that it would have been possible to do it so effortlessly on hall sensors.
Is it a viable way to obtain the quality of control you described above (or close) to use Zero components (matched controller and motor)?

For DIY ebike use buying the components from Zero is probably too expensive? But buying a wrecked or used older Zero, particularly with a bad pack is definitely affordable.

Would you please provide a brief cheat-sheet of Zero year models with the associated components, with their pros and cons for DIY ebike use?

For example for someone who would be satisfied with the Agni level of performance (still a very fast ebike or light moped :mrgreen: ) do any or all of the Zero models with Agni motors and the associated Sevcon controllers have the quality of control you described above?
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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Re: Death Bike vs. Tesla Model S P85

Post by Dauntless » Oct 13 2014 1:45am

liveforphysics wrote:
It still won't be an impressive bicycle for Dauntless, but I do think it would be peppy enough for most members. ;-)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p548143

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