My new Maxun One solar bike

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icerider   100 W

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by icerider » Jan 15 2015 10:20pm

Modbikemax wrote:
So what you are saying is he has half the power required if everything is perfect, no shadows, no losses and full sun on a cool day, flat ground.
So we agree he does not have enough power from the panels alone, which his web site is claiming.

"Riding by solar energy is a unique experience; we just need sunny summer weather. Instead of lugging around with heavy batteries, which have to be charged on the go anyway, you can now drive day after day without being dependant on recharging. It is like having a perpetual motion machine! And the absence of large batteries makes the solar bike very lightweight, sportive and fast. You will often overtake other cyclists which wonder: what was that? The solar bike is one of the most remarkable vehicles on the street, nothing compares, no one has ever seen such a thing before."

So with a 100watt deficiency his on board battery will soon be dead? So then where does all the energy come from?
Oh of course it's a " perpetual motion machine".
Please!
No, I am saying that his 200W of panel are producing ~100W and that will get him 16.7kph with NO drain on his battery.

And I am saying that those numbers are pretty good because my terratrike cruiser goes 7-12 mph with a single 100W panel (producing say ~60W) and no battery at all.

And yes, with a 5Ah 36 volt battery I was riding 12-16 miles/day and never went anywhere near a charger for three weeks straight and if I rode at midday I could stretch that to 26 miles on a 5Ah battery riding in high assist (level 4) only really pedaling on uphills and only enough to keep the rpm (and efficiency) up.

Please read http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=62700 and then we'll talk again.

To whet your appetite, I will quote from that article: ... the first REAL ride on the Solar Power Cruiser. It is early – pre dawn. The battery is fully charged and I am anxious to know how far my new 5Ah (185Wh) battery will carry me. I set the console to max assist and use the throttle freely. I also peddle consistently but not particularly hard. I work to keep the speed UP on uphills for efficiency in the Bionx direct drive motor. I rarely drop below 17mph. When the pack (10s) voltage reaches 35 volts, I have gone 14 miles (13.2 Wh/mile) on a loop in relatively hilly terrain with a total loss/gain of 700 feet. WOW, that is better than I expected, pretty darn good for a cheapie rebuild of a Bionx battery. But that was in the dark. The sun is now up and low in the sky, I put the back wheel of the cruiser up on a bucket to give it a better solar angle. I manually track the sun just correcting the pointing maybe once per hour for 4 hours from 7 to 11 am. At 11 I walk past the bike and notice the little 50mm fan is REALLY racing. I check voltages and the battery is back to 42V and the boost supply is taking virtually nothing from the solar panel so the little 12v 50mm fan is getting about 20 volts from the panel, no wonder it is racing. With a fully charged bike I set out at 11am to see how much further I go with the sun shining. I get 14 miles on the same loop again at max assist and using the throttle freely. When I get back to the starting point, the battery voltage is still at 38.5 volts (about half full). I ride the circuit again, I am getting a little bored and am using the throttle a LOT this time around. At about 26 miles I have dropped to 35 volts under load and back off the assist to finish the last two miles. I finish the 28 miles right at 35 volts. The solar panel has essentially doubled my useful range in the highest assist mode.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by Modbikemax » Jan 15 2015 11:30pm

Ice rider, It is very easy to overlook details when comparing what appear to be similar things but the devil is always in the details.
Your trike has the panels overhead so you are not going to create a shadow over them with your body.
Just one cell covered by shadow will render that whole panel ineffective.

Our friend is claiming 30 kph there is a gulf of difference between 16.7kph and 30kph.

Your setup is far more efficient than the Maxun system and you are not making the same claims in performance so really you are not supporting the Maxun claim at all.

The reality is he is pedalling and drawing down his battery to achieve the claimed performance it is not as a result of the solar panel alone. Of course the panels will contribute to charging the batteries but in the Maxun setup it will almost never happen due to shadows cast over the panels by the rider not to mention the trees seen in his video and the low sun angle.
It is just a really bad idea and he is trying to con people into believing it really works.

I wouldn't have the slightest issue with the idea if he was more honest and told people what was really going on. But unfortunately it's like astrology and card tricks,we all want to believe even though we know it's bullshit.

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icerider   100 W

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by icerider » Jan 16 2015 8:13am

Modbikemax wrote:Ice rider, It is very easy to overlook details when comparing what appear to be similar things but the devil is always in the details.
Your trike has the panels overhead so you are not going to create a shadow over them with your body.
Just one cell covered by shadow will render that whole panel ineffective.

Our friend is claiming 30 kph there is a gulf of difference between 16.7kph and 30kph.
Those are legit criticisms. The shadow problem is real. I have changed my panels to run in parallel for just that reason (shade a cell, loose the panel, or at least the row).

At 30 kph he is going to need 400-500 W and his panels will certainly NOT provide that even midday AZ summer. I also have some concern about his "sail area". On the trike, the panels are always parallel to the ground and hence to the wind. I was shocked how LITTLE effect even 40-50 mph gusting winds had on my 2-panel configuration. It was obvious that the wind was there but it was never a problem at mid range bike speeds. Riding straight, his panels ought to be more or less the same, even cross wind up to some point. But, his bike tips to turn and then presents some sail area. It looks like it could get pretty exciting in 20 mph wind, but as always, the proof is in the riding.

In any case, I think you and I are now in general agreement. We have to be careful about claimed performance, and the downside to having to live with the panels. In my case, I have removed the panels from the bike for the moment. The panels were mounted to the seat at the front and to the headrest clamp system in the rear. All the roll-axis torque went directly into the seat and over the course of 4 months this proved to be too much for the Al seat frame which failed from fatigue at the mount from seat-to-frame. Terratrike quickly provided a replacement for $140, not too bad for a VERY nice seat frame for a 6 year old trike. I came into possession of a FREE chinese-made dead-heavy bike trailer that I want to cut WAY down and mount the panels onto. I also upgraded the Bionx system from an ANCIENT I2C (pre2009) system to a nice "new" 2012 350W/48V/8.8Ah CANBUS system that I got for $300 in excellent condition. In the process I made my nice big 36V battery (with the solar taps) obsolete. I now have to figure out whether I can tap the new CANBUS battery without killing the BMS. This new battery actually has an active cell-balancing BMS as opposed to the I2C which only had two wires going to the battery (no balance lead and no balance function).

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:28pm

ohzee wrote:Nice work avan. That's pretty impressive. Ever crash into anything and loose a panel ?

How small a battery you have on that thing ?

Also over here in the states we have issues when we ride in our underwear. Glad your country is more liberal.
( I kid I kid)

Thanks for sharing.
>>> Ever crash into anything and loose a panel ?
That has not happened yet. But you should also not collide with a car.

>>>>How small a battery you have on that thing ?
182Wh. 36V.
Last edited by avandalen on Mar 24 2015 3:56pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:30pm

Ypedal wrote:Hmmm.. interesting.. getting a leg over without kicking the rear panel must be tricky. .. could also double up as a portable picnic table ! :P
>>>getting a leg over without kicking the rear panel must be tricky
Yes, especially at my age :wink:

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:31pm

agniusm wrote:I went through the FAQ and have a question. Whats the invention on this thing?
The design is patented, the solar bike by itself is not new.
Last edited by avandalen on Mar 25 2015 4:48am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:34pm

TSAR wrote:With the right angle and a strong enough gust, this solar project may turn into a wind projectile.
Maybe you could use it as a sail...
There is no noticeable wind drag.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:37pm

melodious wrote:Your next step is to put it on a recumbent or better yet a velomobile :idea:

How many solar watts are you able to provide? The picture looks like your making good speed.
Sometimes 200W, but normally 180W, in the afternoon 150W or less at full sunlight.
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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:44pm

Modbikemax wrote:The unfortunate thing is people will believe it actually works. Some basic maths will tell you the battery and pedalling are doing all the work.
For a realistic demonstration of what the panels might be adding to the equation see this video by Terry Hope.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=go9vbhrXoEU
Nothing like the 20 to 30 kph claimed more like 5.

It's nice to see the rounded corners of the panels to help prevent injury to other cyclists. Maybe that's the 'invention'. :roll:

The only thing those panels are really generating is the advertising revenue from the youtube ads.
The maximum speed entirely on the sun is more than 20km/h, I want to have this speed in the Guinness Book of Records.
Last edited by avandalen on Mar 24 2015 4:05pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by speedmd » Mar 24 2015 3:48pm

TT bars and some cells on your back would be a twofer in adding some speed to the record. Great bike!

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 24 2015 3:52pm

mushymelon wrote:This thing looks irresponsibly dangerous.
Yes I hear this often :? . But do you know what's really dangerous? Riding in a 1200kg car.
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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by mushymelon » Mar 24 2015 4:57pm

avandalen wrote:
mushymelon wrote:This thing looks irresponsibly dangerous.
Yes I hear this often :D . But do you know what's really dangerous? Riding in a 1200kg car in traffic with 50km/h.
I do encourage you to experiment with alternative energies. I understand what your trying to achieve but I really believe that if your going to ride this bike anywhere near people, pets, cyclists and strollers then yes its Irresponsible.

Motor Vehicles can be dangerous no arguments here. They are even more dangerous in the hands of careless people.
But a bike with two wheels and a sharp solar panel mounted in the front and back is dangerous in the hands of even the most carful people.

Maybe you could glue some pool noodle stuff around them or something.
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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by granolaboy » Mar 24 2015 6:30pm

haha...I love stuff like this!

Ya ya...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to debate the practicality or the accessibility of such a setup. But hey, I wanna see someone do it anyway! I've seen lots of stuff on this board that is borderline insane...but hey...someone has to do it...and I want to see it. And despite its limitations...it does work. And he's having fun turning heads with his wacky bike...it's a great story any way you look at it. Definitely post-worthy. I don't think it deserves the harsh reviews.

This somehow causes "harm" to the EV community? REALLY? You think this will start an uproar of people thinking there is some conspiratorial reason we haven't seen a surge in solar-powered bicycles? I think it's painfully obvious why...
2010 EVT 168 @ 69v

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 25 2015 3:14am

Modbikemax wrote:
mushymelon wrote:This thing looks irresponsibly dangerous.
Things like this give joe average the feeling that the world energy crisis can be solved with a few solar panels.
In recent times heavily government funded rebates and feed in tariffs in Australia have seen a boom in grid connected solar.
People think they are generating useful power because they are not getting a bill or even a refund where in reality a roof covered in solar panels would not even offset the 2hp air conditioner cooling the home in actual energy produced.
What they are getting is a tax payer funded free ride.

Before the government stepped in almost no one had grid connect.
You are quite right it is irresponsible and dangerous on many levels.
You're right, with small-scale solar energy on roofs, etc., you can't solve the world energy problem. The only thing that can save the world are large solar power plants in the deserts around the world. It's even cheaper to build than conventional power plants or nuclear power.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 25 2015 3:20am

lester12483 wrote:Cool solar bike. Well done sir!!

How much did it cost you to build?
The only thing I can say is that it was very expensive.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 25 2015 3:40am

Modbikemax wrote:
icerider wrote:
The solar panels on the bike are far less than required to propel the bike along at the claimed speed. I posted a third party video to demonstrate that.
Actually, he is sporting between 150 and 200W of panels. Around noon and in summer, say he can generate 100W solar.

With 100 kg of bike and rider on level ground and a Bionx PL350 motor, that will get him 16.7kph at 100 Watts (no draw on the battery). http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

I know those numbers are close since my Terratrike Solar Cruiser (150 kg bike and rider and 200W of panels) will cruise at 15-17 mph in Arizona Summer 11am-2pm in medium assist (100+% assist) on gentle rolling hills and still charge very slowly. It will also cruise at 13-15mph (throttle only) with no battery use in the same (near ideal) solar conditions.

In fact, in the initial trial of the Solar Cruiser, I was getting 7-8 mph average with a <1Ah battery and just a single 100W panel -- all the battery did was keep the Bionx system awake while the panel provided ALL the power for the motor. Again, this is noon summer Arizona and level ground.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=62700
So what you are saying is he has half the power required if everything is perfect, no shadows, no losses and full sun on a cool day, flat ground.
So we agree he does not have enough power from the panels alone, which his web site is claiming.

"Riding by solar energy is a unique experience; we just need sunny summer weather. Instead of lugging around with heavy batteries, which have to be charged on the go anyway, you can now drive day after day without being dependant on recharging. It is like having a perpetual motion machine! And the absence of large batteries makes the solar bike very lightweight, sportive and fast. You will often overtake other cyclists which wonder: what was that? The solar bike is one of the most remarkable vehicles on the street, nothing compares, no one has ever seen such a thing before."

So with a 100watt deficiency his on board battery will soon be dead? So then where does all the energy come from?
Oh of course it's a " perpetual motion machine".
Please!
An additional power of 150W .. 180W is quite a lot, more than I can deliver myself constantly. I always pedal too a little to get a speed of more than 25km/h average. But I can now cycle long distances and uphill without getting tired. A small battery last a whole day. The Maxun One is my most used bike in summer now.
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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 25 2015 3:54am

icerider wrote:
No, I am saying that his 200W of panel are producing ~100W and that will get him 16.7kph with NO drain on his battery.

And I am saying that those numbers are pretty good because my terratrike cruiser goes 7-12 mph with a single 100W panel (producing say ~60W) and no battery at all.

And yes, with a 5Ah 36 volt battery I was riding 12-16 miles/day and never went anywhere near a charger for three weeks straight and if I rode at midday I could stretch that to 26 miles on a 5Ah battery riding in high assist (level 4) only really pedaling on uphills and only enough to keep the rpm (and efficiency) up.

Please read http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=62700 and then we'll talk again.

To whet your appetite, I will quote from that article: ... the first REAL ride on the Solar Power Cruiser. It is early – pre dawn. The battery is fully charged and I am anxious to know how far my new 5Ah (185Wh) battery will carry me. I set the console to max assist and use the throttle freely. I also peddle consistently but not particularly hard. I work to keep the speed UP on uphills for efficiency in the Bionx direct drive motor. I rarely drop below 17mph. When the pack (10s) voltage reaches 35 volts, I have gone 14 miles (13.2 Wh/mile) on a loop in relatively hilly terrain with a total loss/gain of 700 feet. WOW, that is better than I expected, pretty darn good for a cheapie rebuild of a Bionx battery. But that was in the dark. The sun is now up and low in the sky, I put the back wheel of the cruiser up on a bucket to give it a better solar angle. I manually track the sun just correcting the pointing maybe once per hour for 4 hours from 7 to 11 am. At 11 I walk past the bike and notice the little 50mm fan is REALLY racing. I check voltages and the battery is back to 42V and the boost supply is taking virtually nothing from the solar panel so the little 12v 50mm fan is getting about 20 volts from the panel, no wonder it is racing. With a fully charged bike I set out at 11am to see how much further I go with the sun shining. I get 14 miles on the same loop again at max assist and using the throttle freely. When I get back to the starting point, the battery voltage is still at 38.5 volts (about half full). I ride the circuit again, I am getting a little bored and am using the throttle a LOT this time around. At about 26 miles I have dropped to 35 volts under load and back off the assist to finish the last two miles. I finish the 28 miles right at 35 volts. The solar panel has essentially doubled my useful range in the highest assist mode.
Yes, we Solar riders know where we are talking about! :D

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Mar 25 2015 4:07am

Modbikemax wrote:Ice rider, It is very easy to overlook details when comparing what appear to be similar things but the devil is always in the details.
Your trike has the panels overhead so you are not going to create a shadow over them with your body.
Just one cell covered by shadow will render that whole panel ineffective.

Our friend is claiming 30 kph there is a gulf of difference between 16.7kph and 30kph.

Your setup is far more efficient than the Maxun system and you are not making the same claims in performance so really you are not supporting the Maxun claim at all.

The reality is he is pedalling and drawing down his battery to achieve the claimed performance it is not as a result of the solar panel alone. Of course the panels will contribute to charging the batteries but in the Maxun setup it will almost never happen due to shadows cast over the panels by the rider not to mention the trees seen in his video and the low sun angle.
It is just a really bad idea and he is trying to con people into believing it really works.

I wouldn't have the slightest issue with the idea if he was more honest and told people what was really going on. But unfortunately it's like astrology and card tricks,we all want to believe even though we know it's bullshit.
Hi Modbikemax

I take your concerns seriously. My claim was confusing and I have therefore changed it to:
The solar panels deliver the energy for a maximum speed above 20km/h and with a little additional pedalling you easily reach 30 km/h.
The video was created in late September where the sun angle is too low. New video's will come.

>>>>Just one cell covered by shadow will render that whole panel ineffective.
Shadow is no problem because I use many active bypass diodes, see here:
http://www.avdweb.nl/tech-tips/pv-panel ... iodes.html

>>>>>Our friend is claiming 30 kph there is a gulf of difference between 16.7kph and 30kph.
With full sunshine, a speed of 30km/h requires just a little additional pedal power.

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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by avandalen » Sep 14 2015 7:03am

Here is a video of the Maxun One solar bike, that shows the motorpower and solarpower at a speed of about 25 km/h.
Image


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Re: My new Maxun One solar bike

Post by mountain biker » Nov 01 2015 11:04pm

Cool... seems like if put razors on the ends of the panel he would have a wonderful weaponized bike not requiring an outlet...and 185 watt hour battery.....probably charge in a couple of hours..I have taken a sharpened broom stick .on rack...also holding in left hand....and ran through 14 inches of square hay bales.....I like where this guy is going..... hopefully he will weaponize this vehicle and give us picks of him taking people out in park....going 20mph all afternoon long.

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