Mark's Winter Project: Kona Stinky, 3000w MXUS 4t, 20s

markw

10 W
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
90
Location
Portland, Maine
99% there...

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A huge thank you to the entire forum for helping with this build through direct correspondence or posting your content/ideas which I probably stole, but these individuals were noted to be instrumental in the build process and for this get shout-outs:

Lyen, Barent / teslanv from Kinaye Motorsports, teklektik (CA unofficial user manual), icecube57, anpaza (XPD), Ch00paKabrA, dogman dan, amberwolf
 
Hi ES, my name is Mark. This is my photo/video journal of my motor. I put this here rather than discussion because there will be a strong focus on media with the progression of this project.

CURRENT HISTORY WITH DIY EBIKE

My first motor kit I bought was, for sake of continuity, a yescom motor. I put about 1000 miles on it. Commuted back and fourth to work 5 days a week 12 miles total (no charging inbetween) on 15s2p LiPo using the stock controller on a 2001 Specialized Stumpjumper with Schwalbe Marathon tires. Worked really well, saved me loads on parking tickets, meters fees, gasoline, and the myriad other hidden charges that go with car ownership.

This motor will probably be used for another build. Originally it was intended for this build - it was torn apart, repaired, modified... but as fate would have it other parts were secured for this build and the thread has taken many different shapes. This thread started as a yescom/centric motor modding/project thread. It's since developed into an entirely new build with entirely new parts and products. For this I apologize to those who have been stalking the thread for some time. However, it was important to me to keep the thread tidy. All the writeups and pictures have been saved for the purpose of reposting to their own threads.

MARK'S WINTER PROJECT LAYOUT

Outlines for this project include a 20s3p RC LiPo battery with custom quick series/parallel leads harness (4.15v / 83v), a Lyen 18fet low RDS controller (100HVC, 65a), CA V3 with treats, 2.7’ Maxxis High Roller front tire with the 60a (Maxxis' high-milage less-tacky tire) compound, a 3000w MXUS 4t motor spoked with 19" moto rims seated with a 244 Shinko tire, and a 2007 Kona Stinky.

2007 KONA STINKY GARBANZO DC (somewhere between a Stinky vanilla / Stinky Deluxe)
This particular Stinky was special designed for ski resorts with downhill trails. This one was for Killington Ski Resort in 2007 and is somewhere between a vanilla stinky and a Deluxe stinky.
- - - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66108&p=995700#p995700

BATTERY, HARNESS, CONTROLLER, MOUNTING
20s2p 20c Turnigy RC LiPo compressed, padded, with a custom wiring harness for quick charging and discharging, Additive Bike Bag for battery mounting
- - - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66108&p=995515#p995515

LYEN EB318 PROGRAMED (XPD) & CA V3
The 18fet Low RDS controller. 63a peak for 5.2kW with batteries hot off the charger. CA V3 monitoring motor temps, 3sp switch, and throttle connected for program and control.
- - - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66108#p999692
- - - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16605 (Lyen's listing)

DISK BRAKE, REGEN, TORQUE ARMS
Hayes 203mm Strokers installed on the motor with spacers/bolts from a previously purchased 44mm disk brake mounting kit for my older yescom motor. Regen enabled. Using a torque plate (former crystalite torque arm, hacksawed, filed, hammered to fit, and a Grin Tech rear torque arm.
- - - (in the Stinky post) http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66108&p=995700#p995700

3000 MXUS MOTOR FROM KINAYE
MXUS 3000w 4t rear direct drive motor with a 20t freewheel laced in a 19" motocross rim with 10g spokes from Kinaye Motorsports, teslanv's ebike business. Shinko 244 dual sport tire with an overall diameter of 25.16" and overall width of 2.92".
- - - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66108&p=995267#p995267
 
3000w MXUS MOTOR

The motor was purchased from kinayems.com - it was purchased with a 19" moped rim spoked with 40 10g spokes and fitted with a Shinko Golden Boy tire with 25" total diameter. It's just short of 3" wide. This just fits.It's so very close to the sides of the frame but with enough clearance to make anyone feel comfortable about it. The freewheel is a 20t shimano freewheel which Barent uses and recommended. The chain is a KMC single speed chain in black and the chain tensioner is a Gusset Squire.

Barent from Kinaye was a pleasure to work with and I anticipate doing more business with him in the future for builds.

Mounting the brake on this motor was tricky as there wasn't much space for the caliper. Luckily I had some spacers left from a previously purchased 44mm brake adapter kit for my yescom motor that made the installation possible. Mounting the tire, appropriating proper space for the motor and tire/rim/brake with D.O.P.E system took just about 4 hours to configure and install.

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HARNESS, CONNECTIONS, CHARGING, BATTERIES

editing...

Using turnigy 5s 18.5v 5000mah packs in this battery here. The balance leads are paralleled as well as the mains. The mains use the 4mm bullets and 12g wire and then crimp into 10g wire. Everything uses plugs that way if I choose to reconfig for possibly 100v the modification can be easily done. The batteries are packed into 6 packs on each side of my battery bag. Wrapped with filament tape for compression (but gentle on the tops, bottoms, and corners of the cells) and then wrapped in old bed foam for some protection. Some hard impacts to the battery bag could definitely cause trouble but the padding should help out some.

The andersons are mounted into a CM-8 plug which secures them into a nice little package. Someday when I get a different frame I will be able to use them to clip into the frame for a clean look.

For charging I am using one of the HobbyKing 540w power supplies and a iCharger 208b. Charges everything in about 3 hours. I balance charge for every charge as some of the batteries from my pack have more cycles on them than the others. Although, for monitoring things, it doesn't seem to be impacting very much. The only real dummy check I have to do is to make sure I unplug the leads from series into the bike before connecting the balance leads. Made that mistake already - scary shit! I hope to make a box that consolidates the two devices (PS/iCharger) and provides another fan for cooling just in case any of the PS/iCharger fans die. This way I can just flip a switch on a power strip, keep the PS and aux fan in on position, and then press start on the iCharger and bam... chargin'.

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2007 KONA STINKY GARBANZO DC (somewhere between a Stinky vanilla / Stinky Deluxe)

This particular Stinky is a from 2007 - decals show "Garbanzo Stinky DC" because it was special built by Kona for Killington Ski Resort when they opened their downhill trails. Thing has seen some shit, maintained by some pros, and here it is on the other side. Previous owner bought it in 2010 and only used it a couple of times since. It has some upgraded components vs a stock Stinky. It has the Dee-Lux paint job, custom decals, Marzocci 888 fork (vanilla Stinky has Marzocci Drop-Offs, this one has the 888), single speed crank in the front with raceface bashgaurd and chain guide, couple of other perks too. Any shred of "new bike!" luster it once had is clear out the window, and I kind of like it that way given that I'm going to be tearing it apart, scraping paint, filling, drilling, and whatever else it needs

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DISK BRAKE AND D.O.P.E SYSTEM

The brakes used on this bike are Hayes hydraulic Strokers using 8" (203mm) disks. The rear brake attached to a floating caliper mount which sits on a bearing which attaches steel rod which connects to the frame. The idea with this system is to redirect the inertia into the frame instead of keeping it on the axle. The benefit of this is two fold for electric bikes. For DH, it was intended to keep the rear shock from absorbing inertia from the disk/wheel. For eBikes, it helps keep some of the stress from stopping the bike away from the axle I think!

In order to get this to fit over the standard sized eBike axle of the MXUS motor I had to file down the inside of one of the bearing plates on the D.O.P.E mount. Consequently, from using this system the caliper needs to be mounted onto the dope mount after the motor is mounted. Not a big deal at all as once it's set in the frame, I don't need to remove the motor for anything as the phase/halls come through the sidewalls of the motor instead of through the axle nut itself as it did on my yescom kit.
 
What kind of bike bag is that?

Kudos
 
kudos said:
What kind of bike bag is that? -Kudos

It's an Additive Bike Bag V2. There is a groupbuy thread on endless but it's somewhat stagnant at this point. If you choose to mount the controller to the bottle cage bolts it hides the top 1/2 and the nest of wires safely between the L/R panniers. While it certainly was a setback to get it shipped over from EU, it's been one of the most enabling ebike purchases of mine to date. When I'm home I'll post some more pictures w/ packs inside to illustrate the capacity potential for it. Short terms there's definitely some other threads around here that have some decent pictures of the bag overflowing with LiPo.

http://www.additive-bikes.com/additive-bag-v2/additive-bag-v2.html

arkmundi said:
Added in your thread to my Top 10 eBike Conversion Kits & Where to Buy thread, illustrative of the yescom motor.

Thank you! I hope it is of use to other yescom kit owners / I hope that the disc brake information might help consumers feel better ordering a non-disk motor in a world where disk brakes are more prevalent than rim. I also hope to report some > 5kW success with this motor, but we'll cross that bridge once we've built it.
 
moved to a separate thread
 
That bike bag looks awesome on the schwinn frame,now youve changed bikes on me! good to see it running.
 
Some updates...

Sooner:
  • [strike]Continue to break in batteries[/strike]
    [strike]USB-TTL programming adapter / program to 50a/55a, see what happens[/strike] Ordered a 18fet from Lyen
    [strike]Cycle Analyst[/strike] CA V3 from Lyen with 3 speed switch, similar setup as icecube57 has on his Destination Discovery bike
    [strike]Mount rear fender - I broke it... epoxy is drying.[/strike] I broke it even harder. Found a way to bolt/mount fender to bottom of seat rack which the controller mounts to.
    [strike]Drive-side torque plate[/strike] Grin rear torque arm.
    Build a new front wheel - Origin8 hub/14g double butted/Alex DX32 36h wheel
    [strike]Build a new rear wheel 14g double butted/Alex DX32 36h wheel[/strike] Fixed with the ordering of the MXUS from Kinaye

Later:
  • [strike]Consider more batteries - 25s or 3p. I'm very interested in the development of the Turnigy multistar batteries.[/strike] 20s3p + quick connect harness complete.
    [strike]Consider a different motor - probably a MXUS from Kinaye[/strike] Check!
    [strike]Make things look pretty... nah. Just get a real frame someday.[/strike]
    [strike]BMS - still "smart charging it" but we've simplified the process[/strike] No BMS besides human BMS. I don't charge past 4.10 and balance charge about every 5-10 cycles depending on what cell-log is telling me at the time.
    [strike]Consider a Quilbix frame, swap all the bicycle components to it.[/strike] With more research, I think I will be looking into a Vector frame from the Ukraine. Next in line would be a Quilbix still. Prime time would be a custom made bogrunner frame - if you haven't seen these yet, they're beautiful. Of the three frame options though, they are the most expensive.
 
Much updating to original thread posts. Build is alllllmost complete. Last things are (as posted above):

- to finish the front wheel.

- I need to get some sort of keyswitch or at least an on/off. Just disconnecting/reconnecting ignition wire ... so tacky! Any recommendations here? I've read that these NKK switches are pretty respectable http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CKM12AFW01/360-1447-ND/379532

- I'm also noticing that my regen doesn't seem to be activating... CA isn't posting any regen figures and really when I pull ebrake I don't notice any regen at all. Looking at my programming from the first post, can anyone see why? Lyen did the R12 mod on my controller before ship - I know that this may have some influence here. I rode all the way down to 72v with noticing that it didn't engage (or at least record regen in CA) CA maybe said 0.024ah of regen... is this normal?

- Down the road (probably entirely new thread for this activity) will be a Vector frame (seem to be the most affordable "stealth" style frame on the market at the moment, although Quilbix is a close second and semi-domestic?) Motions to try to get this beast road legal in Maine may be worth looking into.
 
markw said:
2007 KONA STINKY GARBANZO DC (somewhere between a Stinky vanilla / Stinky Deluxe)

This particular Stinky is a from 2007 - decals show "Garbanzo Stinky DC" because it was special built by Kona for Killington Ski Resort when they opened their downhill trails. .

Hi, thxs for sharing, nice built :wink:
we do see some "garbanzo" kona stinky in Europe too : seems like dedicated to rental market in ski stations
 
made_in_the_alps_legacy said:
Hi, thxs for sharing, nice built :wink:
we do see some "garbanzo" kona stinky in Europe too : seems like dedicated to rental market in ski stations

This is really good to know. I'll edit the post to make sure it states that Garbanzo definitely implies its contruction for ski resorts in general and isnt exclusive to Killington mountain. Thank you for your kind words, means a lot coming from you!

Bike is kind of ugly, but rides beautifully :)
 
Can you pedal freely with the additive bag on the bike?

is the bag strong enough to hold over 10kg of battery and be taken in and out frequently?

would you recommend the bag?

Thanks
 
cwah said:
Can you pedal freely with the additive bag on the bike?

is the bag strong enough to hold over 10kg of battery and be taken in and out frequently?

would you recommend the bag?

Thanks

I can pedal freely wit the bag. It does hang out closet my kness but is slippery and doesnt aggrivate me. for people using triple crown forks its important to know that the the bag position will need to run closer to the seat as the forks will be blocked by the bag being so forward mounted.

I am running 12 5s packs in the bag total, it is very heavy and fairly cramped. I havent weighed it but I can tonight. The bag opens very easily and should be fine if your battery dimentions arent cramping the bag. If they are, I would rec a harness where you can charge in the bag or at least unlatch the bag for charging.

I have stress tested the mounting of the bag by wheeling the bike on the rear wheel so the front is up in the air and REALLY shaking it back and fouth. Bag doesnt even budge. I am very pleased the the bag overall BUT for this type of bike build I would have recommended saving money and buying a Quilbix or Vector frame as the bag is fairly expensive itself and expensive to ship from Europe. I know Barent is selling a less expensive batter bag at kinaye motorsports that might be up your alley. Hope this helps :)
 
Installed a handle bar extender, key switch (Eaton 3 option sustained operation switch, very nice), new 36h S-Type Sun rim in black. Pinned joint. Had the spoke count, color, and trueness that I wanted, and it was only 70 bucks. Updated pictures.

I'm running out of things to do and it's making me antsy.
 
RIP e-stinky. This bike is disassembled and a new thread will begin for where a lot of the parts are going onto a Vector frame.

Having built this bike and enjoyed it for a little bit, here are some overall impressions from this build.

My bike was ugly. There was nothing graceful about it's build - this was in part due to the fact that the bike/frame itself started from a frame that was a rental bike. It looked rat, which was kind of cool for a while, but it's not something I was overtly proud of.

Bike was powerful. Controller needed no mods aside from programming and what Lyen did to it for me (R2, precharge resistor).

Comfortable range on this bike was about 15 miles where ~60 amps were pushed while on the road and with traffic. It was able to keep up with most zones of traffic for in town riding, but for zones 55mph+ it would be curbside riding which is not exactly fun stuff here in Maine. Our roads all all fackered up from the generations of wintah. Now that I've moved ~7mi from work with these 55mph zones, I do want to be able to keep up a bit better.

The quality of this build lacked in several areas. I never got regen braking to work (still unsure why) and my rear brake calipers never quite made it to the perfect mounting on the brake. This was due mostly to the brake mounts simply not being able to align correctly with the DOPE system (floating caliper mount) but even when I installed a fixie for the rear dropout it still never quite aligned right. The dropouts were quite thick and I was able to get away with only using a single GRIN torque arm - but the thought of the motor breaking loose from the slots still was heavy on my mind. The position of my batteries was a bit high with the bike bag, but I felt it actually helped keep the front down which was good.

The things I did right with this build were the charging harness I made for it, having CA for the first time, tires and rims were great on pavement and dirt. The suspension on this bike was great as was the drive train. The MXUS 3000w and rim from KInaye was perfect and I'm glad I grabbed the 4t for the extra torque. Barent was so helpful and I'm actually hoping to work with him soon for a bulk charging meanwell setup. The 18fet low RDS worked great at 70a and Lyen was really helpful. The additiv bike bag (sold to ES member already) also was integral in making this build work.

Overall, grabbing the stinky for $450 was a great purchase. I'm going to transfer the hydraulic hayes strokers, the suspension, the drive train, pedals, headset, handlebars right over to the Vector. Total cost for these components new or used still outweigh the cost of the bike in total. If I were to have done this again, I would have bought the Vector first and then stalked craigs for a similar bike and only looked at the front chain ring/pedals/suspension/etc rather than the bike as full package.

moonshine said:
Vector frames are cheaper than raptor frames. Custom frames are not really any option for me. Will look into downhill frames again just to be sure. But retrofitting batteries and making it look nice is a PITA. I'll figure this out.
TRUTH.

Some obligatory pictures. All waiting for their new home on a black vector frame.

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Very nice project!!

Can you please tell me whats the name of your front fender?
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Hertzelz said:
Can you please tell me whats the name of your front fender?
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Hi Hertzelz :) That is the front section of a Topeak Defender XC1 - it does come with a rear section of fender too, but I did break it unfortunately. Decent fender set, but In the end every part of it broke on me aside from this one. If only it were made of alu or maybe even alu and ABS. At the very least the mounting clamps need to be made of metal. Cheers!
 
markw said:
If I were to have done this again, I would have bought the Vector first and then stalked craigs for a similar bike and only looked at the front chain ring/pedals/suspension/etc rather than the bike as full package.

Hi, that's for sure a very pertinent option... at the moment, I am givng my kona stinky an other chance and noticed the chain stay you have is the same as the one I plan to mount on my built,
reason is : the drop out are bolted to the chain stay, and I am planning to make some steel drop out to replace the original ones and make them act as torque plates, just wondering if you had a similar idea at some point
 
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