Some Dirty Bikes - Videos now in HD

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Föppel   100 W

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Some Dirty Bikes - Videos now in HD

Post by Föppel » Mar 29 2015 9:26pm

Hello my friends from the Endless sphere!
its time to share some photos and videos with you.

EDIT: all the videos postet here are made on private Property(s) and/or in a Country where this is absolutely legal, and/or no one cares when you drife responsible and dont hurt/startle/cumber others.


Here a short video from a weekendride some weeks ago



sorry for the title, but have to fight other bad youtube-titles by unite all that crazy words... :mrgreen:



Here some Pictures of some builds i did for/with friends

Spezialised Bighit:

Cool Bike of a friend, many different motors tested on this Bike... MAC, Crystalyte, GNG with selfmade chain-primaryreduction...
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Image

with the LR-Kit
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Specialised Epic Elite:
With a BMC-Motor in a 24"rim, tubeless-Tires (search for "tubeless ghetto styles"), was running 2 x 44Volt 11Ah Li-ion in series, so 100.8Volt full charged with 30Amps... was good for 4000Km, then clutch become slowly more slippy, changed it with a MAC-clutch after 5500km of hard riding... still using original gears... very impressed with this motor! Very light Bike, around 17 kg (without the Battey in the Backpack)
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kind of minimalistic...
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Bakfiet:

Thats a really cool Bike :-)
runs on 2 x 36volt 10Ah Haedways, controller is 36-72Volt 40amp. Infineon...
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El cheepo with geared hub:

1000.- Build... but still works after 4000km and one shreded Planetary.
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Devinci Wilson with LR-Kit:

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More a torque-setup, still around 55 km/h on 75Volt
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E-BMX:
still in progress, build with a old but cool Kona-Frame, so it looked when i buyed it from a guy for 200.-
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then i added DH-Forks and LR-Kit, changed Rims to 24" with 2.6" DH-Tires, 72Volt-40amp Infineon controller and CA3. Also found online some cheap, fat, oldschool Brake-discs :-)
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This was first try of a Freewheel-Crankarm for a relatively low gearing-ratio, with a 60T 219-Sprocket, and 48T Bikechain-Sprocket
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Trekking-Bike with LR-Kit:
setup for max 50km/h on 48Volt Lifepo, made with a Merida-Dirtbike
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Here with a Bafang-Setup, controller was brocken when arrived (BMS-Battery, not the first time...), so i soldered the original GNG450W-Kit-controller on it... it was loud and getting very hot...
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Here a Bike of a friend, XL Santacruz-Bike with crownmotor and lasercut stainless-steel Dropouts
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Have some more Bikes to build...
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Cause of the swiss streetlaw, you can ride a E-Bike at max 20km/h on street. 35km/h with license, 45km/h pedelec only with license... so all the Pics and Videos in this topic are made on private property with 250w for sure...
Last edited by Föppel on Apr 02 2016 6:59pm, edited 3 times in total.
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beast775   100 kW

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by beast775 » Mar 30 2015 12:57pm

That looks like a nice trail,very cool builds... :D
2 FINGER SALUTE TO ESSO.no buying gasoline for 14 years now.
I spent all my money on bicycles women and beer the rest i just wasted.

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Mar 30 2015 2:32pm

Thanks Beast775, yes its a nice private-trail ;-) ... are you from Grin/Ebie.ca?

our Street-law gets a little better by 2014, so now you can ride a Pedelec with 1000W at 45km/h. in Switzerland
With E-Bikes its a bit complicated, 35km/h via throttle with license --> ok
25km/h via throttle without license --> ok
when pedaling at the same time, throttle up to 45km/h --> ok (with licens)

So i gues we will do most of the future build with CAV3, i think its possible to set this somehow.
But its still the question if its legal, when you have a 3-speed switch and 1=500W / 2=1000W / 3=3000W...
so no guess what happens if police stops you while riding 500W on street at 25km/h, but have the possibility to change it to 3000W with one thumb-push..? Any Ideas?

Here some news:

New Bike arrived, will setup another LR-Kit at 75Volt 3000W :D
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Its a YT-TUES and its like new, had a good deal on this Bike, but was 8h sitting in Train to get it ;-)
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New White-Enos for the High-power crank-Drives arrived:
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will change those on the Bikes with more than 2500W

It will look something like this:
Image

ACS-Freewheel was good for 2000W-Crankdrive setup, but at 3000W it gets shred after 2 or 3 Days riding... happend 3 Times in about 4 days on 3 different Bikes. will see how the Enos perform...

shreded ACS, no visible damage but gets more and more wobble
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Here one new Hardtail with geared Hub, i did for a friend last week. Very cool Bike, new for me was the temp-sensor via CAV3, very nice
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Temp-sensor is working great
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2x torquearms screwed on the frame
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And another Battery gets Packed in foam and plastic... this one is a 50V 14S7P with 25R so 17.3 Ah ;-)
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the battery itself is much smaller, it have 2cm foam around...
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Mar 30 2015 2:56pm

Here a older video... El-Cheepo Bike and Spezialised Allmountain with Geared Hubs (BMC/MAC and Bafang) Its the only Bafang i used to build a bike, will do it never again, but still not bad for the money, just not so longlasing and high quality like MAC/BMC...

dont mind the title its just for bedazzle the system... guys pushing the Bikes up the steep hill are actors on private property, just employed for making our ride look more cool



El-cheapo/Bafang with around 1200W 48V Haedway
Specialised/BMC with new Mac-clutch around 2800W on 88V Li-ion
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Simonism   100 mW

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Simonism » Mar 30 2015 4:48pm

Those "actors" pushing their bikes up hill must have been surprised, lol.

Cool bikes.

Simonism, who now likes the idea of putting the batteries in the backpack.
Interested in beach riding and sandy tracks nearby - Westernport, Victoria, Australia.
1996 Specialized Rockhopper FS with Bafang BBS02 and 10Ah of 12S Hobby King LiPo.
Latest Ride: 2015 Norco Bigfoot 6.3 with 100mm BB version of Bafang BBS01 and 36v 11.6Ah of Samsung 29E, from eMax eBikes, Sydney.
Wife now has: 1985 Shogun Trailbreaker 2 with Dillenger geared front hub and 8Ah bottle battery.
Wife wants: City hybrid with front hub drive (not yet in the works).

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Mar 30 2015 5:48pm

good actors know how to play a surprised Bikepusher ;-)

Yea, the most People i know do this Battery-Backpack style. Bike rides much smoother without haevy Batterys in the Frame, and the look is more stealth ;-)
And you can just hop from the Bike and have the Battery with you.

Some Time ago, we had this hugh Haedway-cells order, and building those haevy and big 72 volt-Packs... dont know how many Kg this was, but feels like you have filled your Backpack with lead... Now that Li-Ion can do easy 40Amp. at 10Ah we only use the Haedway-Packs for cargo-Bikes or Pedelecs (36Volt).

Here some Pics of the Packs we use(d):

Haedway 36Volt in the middle (without foam protection, just plastic around), left is 50Volt 17.3Ah with 2cm foam around, right is 72Volt 12.3Ah with 1.5cm foam
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again
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Here is a Haedway 48V 10Ah-Pack (blue) and a ... i think this is a 50V 17.5ah-Pack without foam...
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i really need this new "Grin-tech Charger-all in one-Thing"....
Image
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Apr 01 2015 5:24pm

Here a old Video with the BMC Motor on (about) 2800W with 88Volt Li-ion.




I believe thats to much power for this Motor, but Bike is lightweight, Driver is lightweight, Motor is a 4T (or 2T?)... so its more a torque motor + in a 24" rim.
The Speed comes from the 88 Volt Pack... with 48Volt, it would be only 35-40km/h

Motor was good for about 4000Km on 88 Volt, than Clutch start slipping. First it was no big deal, but with the time it become more and after 5500Km, i changed the clutch. Gears at this time looked like new, i had new gears ready to replace, but i used the old gears again, just to see how long they will do ;-)

Here a photo from the Gears at 5500Km (Green ones)

Image

the Green ones are the original rom BMC.
The Grey ones was ordered from Lyen (2012/2013?) for MAC
The Blue ones was ordered from EM3ev for MAC too

all gears are compatible, the MAC-replacement gears are even a bit thicker than the BMC gears.
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beast775   100 kW

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by beast775 » Apr 03 2015 5:13pm

Hi foppel,i dont work for ebikes.ca,well not yet anyways :wink: . what Ah are you pushing into the bmc at 88v?
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I spent all my money on bicycles women and beer the rest i just wasted.

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by E-Vince » Apr 11 2015 5:17am

Dear all,

Thank you for showing the various bikes and some hints regarding the batteries for back packs. I have a 48V 20ah pack which fits sungly into a OBI (hardware store) case. This case then fits into a rucksack and I carry it with me. Excelent range good product, but quit heavy ~10kg. Ok for a few hours at the weekends or for commuting to work during the week but anything more and I feel it aggrevating my back.
post.jpg
post.jpg (163.14 KiB) Viewed 8887 times
I checked out the haedway batteries, but I didn't find the exact type that you are using. Could you give me a hint so that I can find them. Furthermore, have you any experience with the batteries from e-bike solutions. They seem to have an extremly high ah/kg, almost half of the most common lipos

Any feedback or comment would be greatly appreciated.

E-Vince
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Battery pack for downhill e bike
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Apr 15 2015 11:06am

Hey Guys, thanks for your Interest.
our experiences with Battery-Packs:

We had used some different Batterypacks in the Past, and had much bad experiences, only a few good ones.

Mostly let them made from different Packbuilders in Europe... not all of them where good (but expensive :wink: )
Or we made the Packs out of Headway-Cells and BMSs, Bulkordered from China (alibaba-seller)
Had Packs from BMS-Battery too... never again, its like 50% off the Parts in general (Batterys, Motors, Parts) dont work when arrived, and you get no answers after money is paid :roll:


We used the Red and the Blue Lifepo Headway-Cells in the 38120 format.
The Blue Cells have ~ 10Ah and can do ~35-40amp
the Red Cells have ~ 8Ah and can do ~ 50-65(?)amp
Sorry, dont know the specs for sure, its only what i had in head for now.
The 38120 Headways are quite havy/big but cheap, safe, and can do good power (amp) for less money, also relatively fast charging.

We also Used different Phillips, Samsung and Sony-Cells (Li-Ion) to let packs build from different pack-builders/spotwelder-guys.
Also ordered 2 Packs from a seller in Europe, known for his "rude" behavier to customers some years ago (forgot the name...) wich where full of defects, and also some misunderstandings in what exactly was ordered... those "High-Quality" Packs was getting extreme hot by using at 30amp (Seller was talking about 40amp cont. discharge :lol: )

Best for now (IMO - Lightweight + powerfull + quality) are the Samsung 25R. and similar Cells, that have high capacity AND high C-Rate (mucho amperos without getting hot, Lightweight and Small). Only "bad" thing is the high Price, but its maybe the best quality Cells/Packs at the Moment.


@ Beast775: the 88 Volt Pack (2 x 44Volt (12S) 11.4Ah (...~10Ah) Li-Ion in Series) was the metioned two Packs which getting hot on 30 amp... i used them with 30 amp max setting on CA, c-rate sucked hard, 1 Pack destroyed after ~200 Chargecycles, had to learn it the hard way (no Endlesssphere for me till then) :(


@ E-Vince: Nice Backpack-Box-Battery style, i really like it when things fit that well together! Is it a Ping-Battery?
I know how it feels to carry 10Kg in Backpack (Lifepo-Haedways). I Think the same like you, 10 Kg is absolutley Maximum, and even then only for short rides (had the same problem with my back hurting after the funny Hours in the Woods :mrgreen: )

I never ordered from e-bike solutions, but heard that they have very good customer-service!
Packs are a bit expensive, but in a normal range for Europe-seller. Looks like they also use Li-Ion-Cells for the most packs, so if good cells are in there, you can get in the same Ah/Kg (or AH/Liter)-range like Lipos, but i dont think that its half of the Ah/Kg of Lipo-Packs.
Normaly highest-capacity Li-Ion cells suck in C-Rate (thats the packs with like the best Wh/Kg (li-Ion)), so keep that in mind when planing to use it for higher powers
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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Apr 17 2015 8:34pm

Some new Parts arrived, tomorrow i start building the Yeti-DH-Bike with the LR-Kit and upgrade the E-BMX with some new parts.



Pics of the Bikes im working on:

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New Bar for the E-BMX, have much higher rise then the one installed now

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New Halo-Sprokets, with a 7mm flansh 14 T and 20 T

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look how big they are... on the left is a normal sproket ;-)

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BMX-Singlespeed Halflink-chain

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Thanks to Grin for repairing and upgrading my CAV3

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El-Cheapo CA, will try this on next Hubmotor-Build

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had to order a 83mm ISIS-BB for the Yeti-Bike

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... and startet building another Freewheel-Crankarm for highpower-Setup, for Yeti-Bike too

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the E-BMX will get singlespeed with 14T (50 or 75 volt). Yeti-Bike will be Same Motor and Controller setup, definetly 75Volts, and will try out some dereileur-Upgrades i discussed with the guys in the LR-Thread.
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » May 02 2015 5:57pm

Back from Holydays, new Parts arrived, time for an update.
I mainly worked on the Yeti DH-Bike with the LR Kit and 2 Bikes with Bafang-Middrifes, the E-BMX with the frame-mounted LR-Kit have to wait a bit.

Image

on this pic, 1 x Bafang, 2 x LR-Kits


The Bafang with the Lekki-Sproket was relatively easy to install, here some Pics

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new Motor... fresh

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KMC E-Bike chain

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Its rock-solid, but if anyone have a "cleaner" solution, please tell me

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nice Display with the "satelite" (5-button-pad...)

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have to mount a E-Brake Sensor on the Brakelever, then its pretty much done :-)
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » May 02 2015 6:05pm

... installed the 14T on the E-BMX, but have to make a new Freewheel-Crank befor testing the Bike...

Image
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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » May 24 2015 5:20pm

Had my DH-Bike with the LR-Kit ready for a testride, here a quick movie from the weekendride

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by beast775 » May 25 2015 10:30am

Cant imagine how that gopro is swinging side to side like that?
2 FINGER SALUTE TO ESSO.no buying gasoline for 14 years now.
I spent all my money on bicycles women and beer the rest i just wasted.

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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by nutnspecial » May 25 2015 12:04pm

Wow, great thread and excellent builds! Thanks for sharing all of this info, and for the videos (great results)!

A few questions:
-It seems you are gravitating mainly towards the LR middrive for these offroaders? About how much weight is added from a weaker mac hub setup, and is the handling a noticable improvement?

-Does each of the group have favorites for that riding style, or is general concensus the LR?

-I am thinking of adding pack capacity with a backback and tether; where did you buy the tether, and would it or can you recommend one that allows 70a @ 80v? I'm thinking 10gauge minimum?

-Do you have any experience with a parallel middrive? (motor reduction direct to hub, parallel the pedal drive.) You might be interested in it if not? jackjetful has a highly custom ride goin on, and skeetab has done a succesful one on a stock full suspension.

-Ride on!

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » May 25 2015 2:56pm

@ beast775: Its a selfmade "Rotor-mount"

Image


@ nutspecial: Yes i like the LR-Kits for the offroad-Bikes, but also like the BMC/MAC-Motors for hardtail MTBs.
There are big differences between this two, i would not going offroad with a geared hub, but on the street and "fieldways"(?), they are great.

LR-Kit and mac-kit are both around 5kg weight i guess (?)
With a mac hub, you can not make jumps and going ruff terrain (for a long time), the LR-Kit makes much more fun in the woods, you can do wheeles, drifts, jumps... MAC-hubs are more stealth and simple to use. For me, when its not offroading, for going to work or visiting friends, i take a MAC-hub Bike.
A friend works at the end of a steep hill, goes every day with the LR-Kit to work thrue the woods. He just use his MAC-Hub Bike when brake something on the other Bike, so...

By "tether" you mean the battery cable coming out the Backpack?
I never used 70A / 80V... We used the LR-Kit mostly on 2500-3000W, 75V 30-40A
for 40A i use 10 or 8AWG-Silicone Wires, Connectors are the big Andersons. The "Mesh" comes from Hobbyking, i use goldbullets to make a predetermined breaking point and use a Car-Fuse on the red wire. Here a foto:

Cabel for small batterypack with 20Amps cont and small Andersons

Image

... i like battery-Backpacks...

Image


i have no experience with parallel middrive, i was very interessted once in the flanged freewheels you can put on a casette-hub, but dont have the tools to make them. Your dual fw looks very nice, how many watts do you use on it, and what reduction ratio?

Cheers
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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » May 25 2015 3:17pm

Here some pics from the LR-Kit builds:


the Freewheel-Crankarm for my DH-Bike, with a White Freewheel, strong Bike-sproket, 4mm Stainless steel Adapterplate
Image


Motor Adapterplate that fits on the Frame... holding the Motor very strong in place.
Image


Chaintensioner building
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you see where the motor give hate to the Bike?
Image

first testride
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More LR-Kits + DH-Bikes + Dog
Image
Image


Here the Bafang-Bike:

Image
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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by nutnspecial » May 25 2015 4:31pm

It's good to know that they (LR) are a favorite of the group with so much experience! I would like to try one someday! And your experience should prove invaluable to new LR users! Thanks for your insight on the drive differences- now I know I'll recommend (and try) LR over mac for offroad.

You wouldn't have to dual freewheel, it's just the route I went. It's (hd fw and adapter) holding up to almost 200 hard earned miles of 70/180a on 84v so far, I plan to break it down soon to inspect.
The bht spins at ~2500rpm on 20s, so I'm currently running 11/50 for 40mph topspeed on the 26". It has more than enough of bottom torque, but I'm thinking of dropping the gearing for better low speed efficiency and to be kinder to the 5.8ah 20s packs.

The reason I asked about the power cord is I'd love to parallel both of my 20s 5.8ah packs, (mainly to more comfortably sustain the high draw thru the whole soc,) but definitely don't want both on the bike, and am not sure how I would like falling with the cord. (i do stupid stuff and fall alot lol)

Ps, Besides all the pics, I like the pic of the cassette beatn up the hub body- Wow, 3kw thru the bike gears!
Oh, and you know to try the ultra hd white fw's with dual bearings should the regular hd's wear to fast?

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » May 27 2015 10:36am

Oh, im not sure but i think its the one FW you mentioning. Its from Paul (SBP)... the ultra strong one from White. But i heard that Paul is making a new one, even stronger, so nut sure wich one you mean.

70 Amps on a bike, and everything is holding together? Thats nice man! What range is possible with the 20S-Packs?
We had to do a lot of upgrades to handle 40Amps, but maybe its a different story with a 1:35 reduction that produce a lot of torque from Motorspeed, not using this much amps.?

I really like the style with the Motor-FW as near as possible to the hub, and the bike-gears with less torque at the outer end.
Would be nice to have a Hub with enough threads for 2 FWs
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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by nutnspecial » May 27 2015 5:12pm

Yes, sbp has the hd fw on their site right now, (mine and yours with the blue anodizing) but there is a dual bearing one coming out I think- the ultra hd. https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/v ... l#p1020493

Thanks, it's fun to hang on to it. So far so good on the durability, I was mainly worried about the motor mount, frame extension, hub adapter, and fw.
Range for me is as can be expected. With over 5k draws at will, it can be short. (so far my worst efficiency is almost as low as 1mi/ah (riverrun video). The high draws at low speed are so fun though. I see close to this effiency also when wot 40mph no pedalling.
Playing in the park gets 2mi/ah with that style ride. (less frequent full draw and speeds 15mph- 30mph). If I use it like a more normal bike It's not hard to get 3-4mi/ah. comfortably and 30mph.
Would be nice to have a Hub with enough threads for 2 FWs
It's not too hard to stack fw's on a hub using a fw hub and bottom bracket cups, but the inside one cant be a white hd (the shoulder it has), so that didn't work for me.
We had to do a lot of upgrades to handle 40Amps, but maybe its a different story with a 1:35 reduction that produce a lot of torque from Motorspeed, not using this much amps.?
I just put the power right into the hub with one reduction, so all the speed is available at once. This may feel like more torque, but it really is less much less than 40a when you are using a low gear (like full speed 20km). I'm surprised how well bht performs through the whole 0-40mph with one reduction and no variable gearing(deraileur). Not easy to setup, but fun to ride.
Thanks for the interest, I thought it might be something you'd like to try, based on what you're doing with the LR's! Just ask if you have other questions about mine, and I'll be watching for updates on your builds! I'd surely vote for some crazy firstperson trail blazing if you guys ever do that!

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Jun 12 2015 4:01pm

Thanks for the Infos Nutspecial, if i find the time i will definetly try this!

We was riding some trails last weekend, here a short video:


Thats one of the Bikes in the Video:
Image

Belt-Side:
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219-Chain Side:
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first used 219-sproket after 1000 km:
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Cheers guys!
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Jun 14 2015 7:39pm

here is a new version of the Middrife-Video with the LR-Kits. Now in better quality...

Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Jun 14 2015 7:46pm

New Bike to build, will do a Geared Hub on this one:

Image
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Föppel   100 W

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Re: Some Dirty Bikes

Post by Föppel » Jun 15 2015 12:50pm

Not so nice weather this weekend... however... riding dirty with the LR-Kits :D

Image


here a very simple chain tensioner-method for the LR-Kits:

Image
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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