Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 02 2018 8:39pm

Now pretty much done.
I got my 16T free-wheel, put it on with a spacer and chain tensioner. The alignment isn't great, but good enough to clear the tyre and not fall off all three front chain rings. I think one more spacer on the free-wheel could be a good idea, but not sure I will be able to get it off now as I don't have the tool.
I got my 2 x 80A circuit breakers (sorry no photo) and wired them in parallel to make a 160A breaker for the battery.
Fitting the battery in was a nightmare! After adding a bunch of padding, the fit was super tight, and getting it in required a very specific angle and balance of parts. After wrestling with it for 20min I finally managed to get everything in....here's hoping I don't have to remove it any time soon.
I reckon it will be worth it though as this is an 18S 30AH pack, so just under ~2Kwh.

Anyway, here's all the mandatory completed build photo's.

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So I already cranked things right up to the max and this beast is already hitting 11KW! :shock:
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One pretty funny side effect of all this chrome is it legitimately makes it hard to see while riding in bright sunlight without sun glasses on. I was doing a few laps of my street and every time I turned the wrong way into the sun I got temporarily blinded. :lol:
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Still to do is the extra freewheel spacer as mentioned, and I also need to mount some variable voltage hall sensors and magnets to the underside of my brake levers for variable regen. Then I just need to tidy up the wires and it's done...potentially for sale for the right price. If anyone is seriously interested, I would accept any offer north of $7500AUD at this stage, anything less and I'm gonna ride it for a while first then reduce the price.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 02 2018 9:25pm

Nice CD, build came out great! The gray chrome coloring is tits for sure. I like it. Damn thats a big tire, even with the knobs trimmed. Let us know how you like it. If you want a better chain line, buy yourself one of these.
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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 02 2018 9:31pm

Thanks Rick.

What is that, I can't quite make it out?

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 03 2018 12:26am

Thought I wouldn't get back to it for a little while, but I hate leaving things 99% finished so NOW I'm finished this build. :D

I tidied up the front wiring
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And glued in place the variable regen sensors
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And best of all, properly tuned it for wheely popping action. Now I'm hitting nearly 12KW :!: :shock: :mrgreen:
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Controller is barely getting warm at this power level also. :)

This thing is a BEAST! Really scares the crap out of me when going WOT. Surprisingly it's topping out at around 65Kph which is slower than I expected on 18S with a 4T MXUS. Maybe my tuning is a bit off or is this an expected top speed...anyone else with this combo care to chime in?

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 03 2018 1:15am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Mar 02 2018 9:31pm
Thanks Rick.

What is that, I can't quite make it out?

Cheers
http://ebikessf.com/FreewheelExtender

Click on the link CD and check out the better pics. You will see.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 03 2018 1:27am

This thing is a BEAST! Really scares the crap out of me when going WOT. Surprisingly it's topping out at around 65Kph which is slower than I expected on 18S with a 4T MXUS. Maybe my tuning is a bit off or is this an expected top speed...anyone else with this combo care to chime in?
Run 4 autodetect cycles back to back with OVS on 0. Then manually adjust your PWR timing to around +1.50-+2.00. Then adjust your OVS to 4. You should get about 75-83Km/H pretty easily. You're welcome.

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 03 2018 4:56am

Thanks Rick. Yeah, some more tuning to do for sure, but I'm not keen on OVS...I'm happy with a top speed of 65Kph anyway. Less chance of killing myself.

The spacer sure is a good solution, but a bit pricey. Now I'm thinking why would I spend that to make my 16T freewheel work when I can pick up a 5 speed freewheel with a 14T on it that should just drop right in. Now I'm thinking why didn't I just do that in the first place. :roll:
Anyone have any thoughts/experience with one of these cheap free-wheels on a MXUS in an Alpha?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sunrace-Mou ... 749831802?
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While I won't be running it with a derailleur, it opens up the option more easily down the track. It also provides the option of manually adjusting the tensioner to run a higher gear if the battery were to die up in the hills somewhere.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
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\ (•◡•) /   100 mW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Mar 03 2018 5:50am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Mar 03 2018 4:56am
Thanks Rick. Yeah, some more tuning to do for sure, but I'm not keen on OVS...I'm happy with a top speed of 65Kph anyway. Less chance of killing myself.

The spacer sure is a good solution, but a bit pricey. Now I'm thinking why would I spend that to make my 16T freewheel work when I can pick up a 5 speed freewheel with a 14T on it that should just drop right in. Now I'm thinking why didn't I just do that in the first place. :roll:
Anyone have any thoughts/experience with one of these cheap free-wheels on a MXUS in an Alpha?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sunrace-Mou ... 749831802?
Image

While I won't be running it with a derailleur, it opens up the option more easily down the track. It also provides the option of manually adjusting the tensioner to run a higher gear if the battery were to die up in the hills somewhere.

Cheers
hey Cowardlyduck, I can't speak for sure about the mxus motors but as a owner of a QS205v3 i can tell you that the freewheel you're looking at is for a hub with the internal clutch mounting system or whatever it's actually called (meant for most new mtb hubs like a Hope tech pro v4), so the inside of the freewheel has that block mounting thing that slides onto the hub, whereas most hub motors attach to freewheels with threads, although that freewheel could have thread located shallow on the inside and might still work with your motor, but i wouldn't bet. anyway here are two great option for your motor (both of which i have previously purchased and have experience with)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BIKEIN- ... 0.0.9Q4bSD

This first one has really nice fine clicks and overall is of preety decent quality, it also screwed straight onto my qs motor and fit really well in the FUTR alpha, although with my 32tooth front sprocket with the 16tooth freewheel my chain line touched the top of the swingarm because the freewheel didn't raise it enough to clear the chain.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-BMX ... 0.0.xXjzEI

Here is your second option, this one has quite a lot less teeth internally so the clicks are much less fine meaning you may have some slight pedal slack in your crank engagement, also it's much louder. and while i don't mind the noise of a normal hub it's kind of annoyingly loud (havn't actually rode my bike with it on yet because my bike isn't finished yet but when turning the cranks backwards with my hands i don't take a liking to the sound to much, but this may ware in over time), also on this freewheel the internal threaded metal sleeve on the inside of the freewheel that screws onto the hub was sticking out about an extra ~7mm on mine, almost as if it could fit another gear, because of this my motor wouldn't fit in my swingarm and I had to sand down the sleeve with a bench mounted belt sander, so if you buy this one just make sure you have a electric sander of some sort, but the 22 tooth one (the one that I have) keeps the chain nicely raised from the swingarm even with my new 38teeth front chainring

Hope this helps, Although waiting for a freewheel from china might be annoying if you want to ride your bike now I'm not sure how much you'll find here in Aus. although these threaded freewheels are usually used with older BMX hubs so maybe include that in your search words. Anyway hope this helps

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 03 2018 10:06am

the sunrace gear cluster pictured is a freewheel with threads on the backside.. your thinking of a cassette gear cluster that slides onto a hub "free hub" body.. those groves that you see are for the removal tool and they do not extend all the way to the base of the freewheel where the threads are located.. with a cassette and free hub the groves do not extend very deep because the free hub body is there and there would only be a shallow cassette lock ring instead.. this would be more clear if the backside of the freewheel was pictured or if the thread pitch was mentioned in the ad.. the thread pitch will be important to make sure that it matches your hub freewheel threads..
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 03 2018 12:14pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Mar 03 2018 4:56am
Thanks Rick. Yeah, some more tuning to do for sure, but I'm not keen on OVS...I'm happy with a top speed of 65Kph anyway. Less chance of killing myself.


While I won't be running it with a derailleur, it opens up the option more easily down the track. It also provides the option of manually adjusting the tensioner to run a higher gear if the battery were to die up in the hills somewhere.

Cheers
You can leave the OVS alone and just increase your PWR timing. That would give your bike more acceleration between 45 and 65kph without increasing top speed. With running multiple back to back auto detects, you should see your IND timing pre set in the 400-600 range. I have found that increasing the IND timing to 650 or so will help a bit little speed and mid range power, however, if you are happy with your top speed, I would only increase the PWR timing to give you more upper half acceleration. As far as your freewheel goes, that will work on the lowest gear just fine and help with your chain line.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 03 2018 5:07pm

Thanks for the suggestions guy's.

Yeah, I think I will go with the 5 speed freewheel, but not for a while yet...gonna ride it as is for a while first.
I spent hours trying to see if I could get a decently priced 5 speed freewheel with a 13T small cog, and think I may have found a good option.
The best option I found was a 13-24/28T freewheel made by Interloc
http://www.interlocracing.com/cassettes ... -567-speed
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And the cheapest I could find it is $38USD
http://www.cheapbikeparts360.com/produc ... reewheels/ - But I can't seem to actually buy this one...so the next cheapest is £45
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s112p30 ... -Freewheel

Anyway I won't get this for a while, as I said I'll ride it around as is for a while first.

Rick, I'm already at about 2.0 PWR timing, but I've not set IND timing that high...I'm not sure that it should be set that high unless the hall angle is adjusted to match, but then it throws everything out of wack in terms of the efficiency etc. I'll see how I go and use some OVS if I find it's too slow.
Having it wanna lift the front wheel all the way up to 30kph is scary enough for now for sure. I'm running my Midi-E at 160A batt and 300A phase, so certainly at it's limit.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 03 2018 7:19pm

Rick, I'm already at about 2.0 PWR timing, but I've not set IND timing that high...I'm not sure that it should be set that high unless the hall angle is adjusted to match, but then it throws everything out of wack in terms of the efficiency etc. I'll see how I go and use some OVS if I find it's too slow.
Having it wanna lift the front wheel all the way up to 30kph is scary enough for now for sure. I'm running my Midi-E at 160A batt and 300A phase, so certainly at it's limit.
And thats where field experimenting with your settings come in. I found that with OVS on 3 with IND Timing on 654 was faster (by 1mph) than OVS on 4 and IND Timing at 580 and drawing 100 less watts doing it. Obviously this was the more efficient setting. This may be unique to running the older 4504 MXUS V2 with the 1st generation MAX E.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 04 2018 6:13am

Yeah, it definitely needs some better tuning. What Adaptto based bike doesn't!

So I did my first charge with the balancing system and it seems to work well. Here's what the inside looks like:
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This is 9 x 10AH Multistar packs, with 8 in the main section and one up on top.

The parallel port is nice and snug so it doesn't even seem to mind the weight of the 3 battery medics hanging off it.
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It takes a while to balance for sure, but it's not hard to just plug it in and leave it while bulk charging and by the end of a charge it's certainly helped keep things roughly balanced. If it gets too far out of balance I can always leave it balancing over night...and the best part is, it's not a Battery Murdering System. :P

Hot off the charger, I'm doing even better than 12KW!
Image.
And no, I didn't go 135KPH, that was just me playing around with OVS 7 and the wheel in the air. I did hit 95KPH down my local street though on OVS 3...that's ridiculous enough for me that I won't be doing it again any time soon for sure.

And I took it out for it's maiden ride...up a mountain of course. :)
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My MXUS is certainly getting hot fast...even with the FF and hubsinks I'm still hitting my thermal cut-off of 140C a lot more than I would like up big hills. I think it's a combination of bad tuning (working on that) and pushing 12KW through a 3KW MXUS in what has ended up being a rather large diameter wheel/tyre combo (can't change that now). On the street it gets hot still but never reaches thermal cutoff and if I just use Normal mode on the Adaptto at 80A instead of Boost at 160A it's still got more than enough pep and will never overheat.

I also think I need to get a rear mud-guard. The Shinko likes to pick up rocks and hurl them at my back quite hard at times. I thought I had randomly been shot in the back for a split second after one rock pounded me so dam hard I nearly fell off.
Anyone got any tips for rear fenders that fit well on the Alpha?

Cheers
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 04 2018 11:10am

I did hit 95KPH down my local street though on OVS 3...that's ridiculous enough for me that I won't be doing it again any time soon for sure.
Yah, thats similiar in performance to what I was getting. I could hit 54MPH on OVS3 with PWR Timing set at +1.58 and IND Timing at 654. Used a lot of amps though. Your battery looks great. With the lipos, your volt sag isn't as much which is why you are getting 12+kw. Great job on the build. The only thing I would change is the size of your large front chainring. It takes away ground clearance. Call it a hunch, but you seem like the type of guy that likes to ride offroad alot. :wink: I was running a 48T on mine and hit a rock, bent the shit out of it. I then dropped down to a 38T and never regretted it. Of course one can't pedal assist above 12-14MPH with a 38T on and 16T free wheel so I do get why you are running that large chain ring up front. When are you going to have some video?

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by PRW » Mar 04 2018 11:21pm

so, started on the build, at long last! For reference, the Beta frame has a LR kit, as per this thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=89282

the 18f powervelocity controller looks good on the access hatch - and I really like the blue contrast of the vinyl wrap, with Hyena's cutout frame. The s/steel headset went in well using Hyena's "put it in the freezer" method.

Just waiting for some Chris King headset parts, and then I need to find an MTX 39 (hopefully) front wheel - don't want to wait for another wheel build, the last took almost 3 months!
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by sacko » Mar 06 2018 5:33am

Currently getting back into the fold after completing my previous projects.

Looking to build the Alpha, and currently have an 3kw MXUS motor available.

I am currently stuck on controllers and batteries to use. On previous builds I had used the Adaptto with Lipo, but wanting to move towards 1850's (currently considered the GA's but open to other suggestions). I would have liked a Max-e but due to their recent 'downsizing' I am looking for something different. Anyone have any suggestions? I am out the loop with the latest and greatest.

Looking through this thread 20s10p of the 30q cells look to be well suited? Are they 'better' than the GA's?

https://eu.nkon.nl/samsung-inr-18650-30 ... VEQAvD_BwE

I am looking for max KW, more power the better.

My last build

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=56228

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Cowardlyduck   10 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 06 2018 5:59am

Welcome sacko!

I can't really comment on the controller side as I'm using a Midi-E at 12KW on my Alpha, but for the batteries if you want to go with 18650, I would recommend the GA, but only if you can put lots in parallel. I just recently completed a 14S14P GA pack for my Fighter which has quite a punch, doesn't sag much and is great for long range.
If I were building a similar pack for the Alpha, I would think about going 18S14P as I think that would fit. Amps draw would be limited to 140A, so not as good as LiPo, but you would have over 3.2Kwh in capacity for epic range.
Similar to you I have a MXUS 3K on my Alpha which is ok. While it does take the 12KW I'm pushing at it, it does get hot fast at those power levels so if you can accept that aspect then it's great.

I rode my Alpha to work today and on the way home took a slight detour. A few keen eye'd ES members might recognise this spot:
Image

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Lash » Mar 07 2018 7:03pm

Well done on finishing your build CD. You are getting some insane power levels through it.

About the tuning - sounds like you and Rix are on the right track. One thing I have found to be key is to experiement with the phase wire combos. I have noticed that swapping at least one pair (randomly) has a pretty big effect. Adaptto is meant to be autosensing etc, but it makes a huge difference. Previoulsy like you I was stuck around 65kmh and could feel the bike being 'retarded' if that makes sense. like the last quarter of throttle almost made it go slower. No tuning could make it any better.

Swapping the phase wires around I was quickly able to reach 75kmh and had much punchier acceleration all the way there. no OVS involved.

One way I tune is after autodetect hang the bike in the air, and adjust the settings as your throttling, you can really hear the difference and find harmonic sweet spots - I play guitar (well not for a while) but have a bit of an ear for it, im sure you could too. With the wheel unloaded, you should be able to get it to hit higher speeds. Then as mentioned field test to fine tune. At the end of the day this will get you rocketing along and keeping temps down as much as possible.

Ive got another alpha rolling now with v3 mxus, so will post a pic soon!

p.s the zefal rear mudguard works well, but maybe a little thin for that big fatty!

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 07 2018 7:35pm

Thanks Lee!

I had not heard that before about the phase wire swapping. When I get around to it I will certainly give that a try.

That Zefal rear mudguard looks good enough and will match the front one also, so might give it a try.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Hyena » Mar 07 2018 11:25pm

Nice work CD. I was going to ask for a side on shot as I was scrolling through the thread but I see it now. I hereby dub the bike "Kim" - for that is a ridiculously out of proportion fat ass! :lol:

Oh and yes I recognise the trail. That's what, the 4th alpha that's bombed down it now ? :)
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 07 2018 11:54pm

Thanks Jay.

Yeah, that track is one of my all time favourites and one of the best way's of determining if the rebound rate on the rear shock is set correctly. In my case it wasn't and the Alpha was throwing my up like a pogo stick until I slowed it down some. :lol:

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

The stuff I make and modify.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Mar 08 2018 6:08am

So I had a play around with swapping 2 phase wires and re-tuning tuning and this was the result bombing around the back yard.
Image

I still managed to get the motor mighty hot pretty easily, but hard to tell if it's made a difference. I will see how I go.

Cheers
High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Heat-sinked Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

The stuff I make and modify.

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Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 08 2018 11:15pm

PRW wrote:
Mar 04 2018 11:21pm
so, started on the build, at long last! For reference, the Beta frame has a LR kit, as per this thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=89282

the 18f powervelocity controller looks good on the access hatch - and I really like the blue contrast of the vinyl wrap, with Hyena's cutout frame. The s/steel headset went in well using Hyena's "put it in the freezer" method.

Just waiting for some Chris King headset parts, and then I need to find an MTX 39 (hopefully) front wheel - don't want to wait for another wheel build, the last took almost 3 months!

IMG_2898.JPG
Looks great so far. When will you have this build up and running?

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Rix   100 GW

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Posts: 6424
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 08 2018 11:17pm

I hereby dub the bike "Kim" - for that is a ridiculously out of proportion fat ass! :lol:
I told him it was a big tire. :lol: One thing is for sure, CD has a lot of traction.

PRW   10 kW

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Joined: Nov 10 2011 10:10pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by PRW » Mar 09 2018 12:28pm

Rix wrote:
Mar 08 2018 11:15pm
PRW wrote:
Mar 04 2018 11:21pm
so, started on the build, at long last! For reference, the Beta frame has a LR kit, as per this thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=89282

the 18f powervelocity controller looks good on the access hatch - and I really like the blue contrast of the vinyl wrap, with Hyena's cutout frame. The s/steel headset went in well using Hyena's "put it in the freezer" method.

Just waiting for some Chris King headset parts, and then I need to find an MTX 39 (hopefully) front wheel - don't want to wait for another wheel build, the last took almost 3 months!

IMG_2898.JPG
Looks great so far. When will you have this build up and running?
thanks Rix - within 3 or 4 weeks. Still need to:
  • put in charge port
    vinyl wrap other side
    tighten headset
    work out how high I should have the fork steerer tube
    put on handlesbars, brakes, sundries
    wire it all up
    find a decent front wheel!
I seem to do things a bit sporadically - install something, work out what I should do next, realize I don't have a part or tool, wait 2 days, install, repeat.... :D

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