Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 29 2019 1:31pm

papabless wrote:
Mar 29 2019 5:55am
Are there clones of these? Ive seen stealth bomner frames that sell for $300
What Natas said.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Mar 30 2019 12:11am

I guess I can say this in now the first FUTR with a Hammerschmidt! :thumb:, all done with 80km of testing, everything works perfect.
I also had the Hammerschmidt cranks and my controller casing Hard anodised black :)
Additionally there is a new back wheel on the bike, with 8g stainless spokes (brass nipples), new 19" rim and a fresh shinko 241 :)
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Mar 30 2019 10:56am

\ (•◡•) / wrote:
Mar 30 2019 12:11am
I guess I can say this in now the first FUTR with a Hammerschmidt! :thumb:, all done with 80km of testing, everything works perfect.
I also had the Hammerschmidt cranks and my controller casing Hard anodised black :)
Additionally there is a new back wheel on the bike, with 8g stainless spokes (brass nipples), new 19" rim and a fresh shinko 241 :)
Image
Image
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Your build came out fantastic, one of the best Alpha builds I have seen to date. How about some 3rd person video of it in action?

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Mar 30 2019 11:28pm

Rix wrote:
Mar 30 2019 10:56am
Your build came out fantastic, one of the best Alpha builds I have seen to date. How about some 3rd person video of it in action?
Thanks Rix - I Appreciate it!
Not sure i'll have 3rd person footage any time soon, but I've collected a decent bit of first person off road riding footage, however I can't say when I'll be able to take the time to edit and post any of it, with how busy I've been I can't imagine it will be any time soon, one day though... one day.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Apr 02 2019 5:21pm

This will prolly be my last build.
Retrofitted the CA to get that old school feel - stealth guys knows :mrgreen:
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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Apr 03 2019 4:15am

Allex wrote:
Apr 02 2019 5:21pm
This will prolly be my last build.
Retrofitted the CA to get that old school feel - stealth guys knows :mrgreen:
Nicely done Allex. :D

Why is it your last build?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Apr 03 2019 4:42am

Well I build them to make some money and had a bunch of leftovers, enough to build this one. After this I will prolly concentrate my time on making sur-ron better.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Apr 05 2019 12:28pm

Allex wrote:
Apr 03 2019 4:42am
Well I build them to make some money and had a bunch of leftovers, enough to build this one. After this I will prolly concentrate my time on making sur-ron better.
Good for SurRon, sucks for FUTR.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Apr 06 2019 5:38am

Allex wrote:
Apr 03 2019 4:42am
Well I build them to make some money and had a bunch of leftovers, enough to build this one. After this I will prolly concentrate my time on making sur-ron better.
If you manage to:
1) upgrade surron's power to about 8-10KW with minimum top speed 75km/h and of course good regen
2) to make it silent
3) to have a battery capacity at least 2.5kwh
4) To move the pedal kit forward 20 - 25CM then Surron will be the best ebike in the world.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Apr 06 2019 5:47am

Hey guy's,

I'm trying to figure out what the max capacity single block 20S battery can fit into a Futr Beta with 21700 cells.

So far by my guesstimate, the max is 20S6P which comes out to 118x85x417mm.

Anyone know if this is likely to be able to fit (I don't have a Beta on hand to test), or if there is another option that will fit more while keeping a simple pack design?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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icherouveim   1 kW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Apr 06 2019 7:20am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Apr 06 2019 5:47am
Hey guy's,

I'm trying to figure out what the max capacity single block 20S battery can fit into a Futr Beta with 21700 cells.

So far by my guesstimate, the max is 20S6P which comes out to 118x85x417mm.

Anyone know if this is likely to be able to fit (I don't have a Beta on hand to test), or if there is another option that will fit more while keeping a simple pack design?

Cheers
Hello,

The last months I am thinking about exactly the same project. I want to build a battery pack 20S - 7P with 40T cells (2016wh) which I found is the best balance between capacity & power for my Futr Beta. My old 20S-9P battery was made by 30Q cells, after 10.000km it's has started to wear out and doesn't give the power used to have.
I am not sure if I manage to fit 140pcs of 21700 cells but I will try because I want to have good power and range at the same time.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Apr 06 2019 2:12pm

Where are you buying the cells?
this is 20s7p 18650 115x75x375 and it fits with a bit of force on the long side.
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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Apr 06 2019 5:09pm

Thanks guy's. I meant to say 20700 above, but basically the same thing.

I get my cells from NKON usually.

Allex, that pic makes me think the 20S6P 20700 cells at 118x85x417mm might not fit. :( But it's great to see another option with the trusty old 18650's. :D

I'm trying to make it work with 20700's as they have about 20-30% better capacity with only ~12% increase in physical dimensions. For example a 20S7P 18650 pack using 30Q cells is going to be ~1.5Kwh...a 20S6P 21700 pack using Sanyo NCR20700B cells will be 1.85Kwh...even a 5P pack would be about the same as the 7P 18650 pack and take up far less space width/height wise.

Anyway, the guy buying this pack from me is super keen to get max capacity, but I'm finding it hard to find a simple enough config to make it work where it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of my time (therefore making it not worth my while or super $$$).

Maybe the answer is a split pack. To halves length ways so one can slot in first then the other basically eliminating the problem of making it squeeze in at an angle. This should make the 417mm length possible, and the 118 height also fit. If it could take ~132mm height then even 7P could fit. What do you all think?

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by scrambler » Apr 06 2019 5:18pm

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Apr 06 2019 5:09pm

I'm trying to make it work with 20700's as they have about 20-30% better capacity with only ~12% increase in physical dimensions.
It will be very interesting to hear your experience with this, given Luna had so many problems trying to make the Apex battery with 21700 cells, that they actually gave up and reverted to 18650.

Keep us posted :)

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Apr 07 2019 2:31am

For me there are no problems with 21700 cells at all.
I have already used them to build electric jackets and electric sea scooters with big success. They work very well and you need less cells to build a good battery pack.

Also now Nkon.nl sells 40T & 30T cells at much better prices.
So after Alex's photo I think I have to split the pack in two smaller packs to be able to fit 140 pcs of 21700 cells and then it will be the dream battery pack for this small frame.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Apr 07 2019 3:30am

icherouveim wrote:
Apr 07 2019 2:31am
So after Alex's photo I think I have to split the pack in two smaller packs to be able to fit 140 pcs of 21700 cells and then it will be the dream battery pack for this small frame.
How will you arrange the cells? I can't see how more than 6P would fit unless you start stacking some end to end and do a second layer lying down on top.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Apr 07 2019 6:00am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Apr 07 2019 3:30am
icherouveim wrote:
Apr 07 2019 2:31am
So after Alex's photo I think I have to split the pack in two smaller packs to be able to fit 140 pcs of 21700 cells and then it will be the dream battery pack for this small frame.
How will you arrange the cells? I can't see how more than 6P would fit unless you start stacking some end to end and do a second layer lying down on top.

Cheers
The frame doesn't have the same height everywhere, there is a high point that reaches about 130-135mm so I will add more cells there also two years ago I've manage to fit 180 18650 cells with two floors design so I think my goal to fit 140 21700 can be accomplished.

This is the old battery layout that has already done 10.000km
PIC1.jpg
PIC8.jpg

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by cheeko » Apr 07 2019 7:22pm

icherouveim wrote:
Apr 07 2019 6:00am
Cowardlyduck wrote:
Apr 07 2019 3:30am
icherouveim wrote:
Apr 07 2019 2:31am
So after Alex's photo I think I have to split the pack in two smaller packs to be able to fit 140 pcs of 21700 cells and then it will be the dream battery pack for this small frame.
How will you arrange the cells? I can't see how more than 6P would fit unless you start stacking some end to end and do a second layer lying down on top.

Cheers
The frame doesn't have the same height everywhere, there is a high point that reaches about 130-135mm so I will add more cells there also two years ago I've manage to fit 180 18650 cells with two floors design so I think my goal to fit 140 21700 can be accomplished.

This is the old battery layout that has already done 10.000km

PIC1.jpg
PIC8.jpg
Will Be interesting, what size was that in picture?
24s5P Futr Beta Mxus3k New Controller coming

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Cowardlyduck   100 MW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Apr 08 2019 8:31am

icherouveim wrote:
Apr 07 2019 6:00am
The frame doesn't have the same height everywhere, there is a high point that reaches about 130-135mm so I will add more cells there also two years ago I've manage to fit 180 18650 cells with two floors design so I think my goal to fit 140 21700 can be accomplished.

This is the old battery layout that has already done 10.000km
Thanks for reposting that original icherouveim. This layout was mentioned to me, but I couldn't find it, so thanks again.

In terms of decent power and capacity, I can't see 20700's beating 9P of 18650's...especially if I used Sanyo NCR18650GA's at 3.5AH each.
That's 31.5AH...2331Wh.
The closest option with 20700's would be 20S6P using the Samsung INR21700-50E, but you would be limited to 60A and still falls just short in terms of capacity at 30AH / 2220Wh.

I'm not sure 7P using 20700's could really be done safely or with a simple pack design, but I will be curious to see what you come up with.

Cheers
Custom made 18650/21700 battery packs

Modified Stealth Fighter - Force air cooled motor @ 6KW, Adaptto Mini-E. 49AH, 52V 18650 - 2.5Kwhr
Cowardlyducks - Stealth Fighter Videos

BikeE recumbent commuter - 9C, 6Fet Grinfineon, internal 17AH, 52V, + on-board solar.

Ebike Garage - My YouTube Ebike ramblings.

High Power LiPo wiring harnesses - 4P - XT90, HXT4mm, 5.5mm. 200Amp+ capable. Global shipping.

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icherouveim   1 kW

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Apr 08 2019 11:04am

Cowardlyduck wrote:
Apr 08 2019 8:31am
icherouveim wrote:
Apr 07 2019 6:00am
The frame doesn't have the same height everywhere, there is a high point that reaches about 130-135mm so I will add more cells there also two years ago I've manage to fit 180 18650 cells with two floors design so I think my goal to fit 140 21700 can be accomplished.

This is the old battery layout that has already done 10.000km
Thanks for reposting that original icherouveim. This layout was mentioned to me, but I couldn't find it, so thanks again.

In terms of decent power and capacity, I can't see 20700's beating 9P of 18650's...especially if I used Sanyo NCR18650GA's at 3.5AH each.
That's 31.5AH...2331Wh.
The closest option with 20700's would be 20S6P using the Samsung INR21700-50E, but you would be limited to 60A and still falls just short in terms of capacity at 30AH / 2220Wh.

I'm not sure 7P using 20700's could really be done safely or with a simple pack design, but I will be curious to see what you come up with.

Cheers
Hello there,

Yes the threat is the following if you want to see more info:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 14&t=88373

This battery pack has worked very well for more than two years (it's not dead yet but it sags a lot).
The reason I want to try 21700 40T cells is the extra power and here is why.
At the boost mode my controller draws 115amps and the cells stress a lot, actually they were working almost at their maximum rating for all this time.
So If I manage to install a 20S 7P pack made by 40T cells then each cell will have to deliver only 16.5A which is perfect because this cell can deliver up to 25A continuous and 35A for short bursts.
I believe this pack is going to last much more.
When I decide to change battery I will let you know!

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by cheeko » Apr 09 2019 12:49am

Guys

Put a Domino Throttle on and wow what a difference it makes to the bike, anyone that using a chinese one of something like that definitively worth the upgrade, my beta isnt as jumpy and i can take off much easier and im sure im reaching higher speeds.

What does everyone else think of them
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Apr 09 2019 1:34am

cheeko wrote:
Apr 09 2019 12:49am
Guys

Put a Domino Throttle on and wow what a difference it makes to the bike, anyone that using a chinese one of something like that definitively worth the upgrade, my beta isnt as jumpy and i can take off much easier and im sure im reaching higher speeds.

What does everyone else think of them
I've heard that multiple times now and have been thinking of getting one, can I ask where you bought yours from?
thanks

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by cheeko » Apr 09 2019 6:41pm

Yeah it was from https://www.eco-ebike.com/ Probably could find cheaper but shipping to Australia not everyone wants to do.

I can say its no where near as jumpy now with the 24s actually a joy to ride, Running it with the Powervelocity controller.
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by \ (•◡•) / » Apr 09 2019 7:24pm

cheeko wrote:
Apr 09 2019 6:41pm
Yeah it was from https://www.eco-ebike.com/ Probably could find cheaper but shipping to Australia not everyone wants to do.

I can say its no where near as jumpy now with the 24s actually a joy to ride, Running it with the Powervelocity controller.
I too have a power velocity controller and have been putting off getting a domino throttle ever since my first ride.
The half throttle I bought with my controller (hall effect throttle) has been great, except every time I accelerate from 0km/h, it uses a large initial burst of power to get the bike moving, there really isn't any fine control on the initial take off, which is bad for my wheel and spokes, to counteract this i've turned the power ramp up (soft start) up real high - but this takes away from the fun of rolling acceleration and makes the bike feel 'tired'.
While I want a domino the idea of a full throttle personally scares me, as I occasionally get out of the saddle to stand up, and don't want any 8kw fueled mistakes when sitting back down and twisting the throttle.
Do you have any idea if the throttle has a stationary inner tube the whole length of the domino throttle? I'm thinking of buying one and neatly cutting it in half, giving me the premium throttle while still in a half twist package.
as others on this forum have said, it sucks that with so many incredible high powered bikes and excellent technologies we still either use dodgy hall throttles which ware out spokes prematurely by accelerating from 0 with heaps of power (at least in my case) and arn't super fine, or we use very expensive Domino's/Magura's which seem to solve everything except they don't come in the much sought after half twist package.
If the throttle is designed how I imagine it would be, similar to a twist gear shifter with a inside tube that clamps to the bars and never moves and then the grip which twists around the tube with help from spacers, I imagine I could cut the tube and grip in half then make a spacer from nylon or delrin to fit between the tube and grip, this would give the grip something to slide on. similar to the end of this twist shifter:
Image
The spacer would look something like this:
Image
What do you think, is this possible, or does the domino work in some other mysterious way?
btw how does 24s go on your beta?, that thing must be a little rocket.
Cheers

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by cheeko » Apr 09 2019 7:44pm

mate

Yes i too have put soft start and 10 to keep it down but with the Domino it seems to be better ramp up so ill prob turn it off, I never really take off as if tried at lights and bit embarrassing till i can control it, i usually always do rolling start. Yes i definitely think you could cut it in half think its grip on some plastic tubing the micro sensor is at one end.

24S is beast, I can get to work quicker then people live down road, seems to go quicker which doesn't make sense but down a hill i clocked 90kmhr didn't go over 4kw whole ride seems to not use as much power but definitely quick. I need to learn I'm on a bike on the road and not burn through roundabouts like I'm a car LOL
I plan on taking it down to 20S which will still be fine

I ordered new controller which i have been waiting on Nuclear one just form factor and reminds me of the Adappto controllers.
Only reason to change its perfect controller but wanted something smaller and i do like to have dedicated screen, as i find i want to go ride and my phone is dying.

Let me know i can measure it up for you what ever let me know
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