Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

[Allex]

Yes 20kW

Is this Linukas (4Motus) creation?
http://www.neematic.com

[madin88]

subscribed

[morati]

In

[macribs]

Wow. Now this looks like the most fun to be had with your clothes on this year.
20 kw mid drive. And so light weight. Can't hardly wait to get the full specs, see some pictures, videos and get the price.

E-(motor)bike milestone?

[Allex]

Do we need more pictures? Sure, here is one

[jansevr]

Definitely can't wait to see this one. Any word on the motor/controller they are using? The frame looks awesome

[nutnspecial]

The idea and design has great promise- very exciting! I'm not sold on the drive type though- a single speed serial mid? Obviously deraileur would be a weak point at that power, but what kindof bike chain and sprocket/chainring is good for the 20hp?

I guess I just find so much less point to even having pedals for a motorcycle power fixie- might as well do parallel or just get rid of the pedals, but I suppose if it doesn't cog it would be nice to have a gear to pedal legally thru a town?

Good find Allex, can't wait to see more of this come out.

[crossbreak]

nice. looks like Linas further developed his middrive frame https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 25#p911925

[agniusm]

There was something in media that they will start ar 7k eur.

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Lietuviai sukūrė greičiausio pasaulyje elektrinio dviračio prototipą :
http://www.15min.lt/verslas/naujiena/st ... 867-501785

[macribs]

20 Kw? Seems like a regular hub motor is sitting in the frame. Wonder what motor/controller they are using to reach 20 kw peak.
At first I was thinking they would use Joby motor or similar like on the video where joby e-bike races 450 cc motor cycles and win.
A little surprised to see that they are using regular hub motor. I think Linas has been using QS motors in the past. Could it be a v3 205 in the frame? Or possible the QS 273, or maybe the 273 is too wide?

[Allex]

Thats just the prototype, both the frame and motor options are not perfect. So they will release the real Neematic soon

[crossbreak]

20 Kw? Seems like a regular hub motor is sitting in the frame. Wonder what motor/controller they are using to reach 20 kw peak.
At first I was thinking they would use Joby motor or similar like on the video where joby e-bike races 450 cc motor cycles and win.
A little surprised to see that they are using regular hub motor. I think Linas has been using QS motors in the past. Could it be a v3 205 in the frame? Or possible the QS 273, or maybe the 273 is too wide?

it's no v3 205 but something similar to a v1 205 30mm stack and water cooling. So the v1 205 is designed for 1000-1500W and it is geared ~2:1 so it should be good for real 4kW continuous at the wheel. Or 5 marketing kW battery power I like to call it....so it is 5mkW or 5pkW (poser kilo Watt). With water cooling active, it should be possible to double the output power, so we finally talk about ~10pkW or ~7 real kW. not bad for a proto... now i get why he did not want to sell me the proto frame half a year ago

there was still a design fault in the proto: the motor is mount in the pivot point, with reaction torque supported by the frame. this way reaction forces dont disappear like if it was supported by the swing arm itself. Something that can be solved easily by design though. Still i got no definite answer yet that they will change this With a slight redesign i think this can outperform the LMX P2 inboth terms of handling and power/weight. The first picture Allex posted looks promising

[Hillhater]

Gearing reduction increases torque, but it won't change the power ( well, actually it reduces it..due to friction/efficiency losses) !
So, ..it's still a <1.5kw system !

[macribs]

there was still a design fault in the proto: the motor is mount in the pivot point, with reaction torque supported by the frame. this way reaction forces dont disappear like if it was supported by the swing arm itself. Something that can be solved easily by design though. Still i got no definite answer yet that they will change this With a slight redesign i think this can outperform the LMX P2 inboth terms of handling and power/weight. The first picture Allex posted looks promising

Hm not following you here. *guess I should have paid more attention back in school*
I would think that motor in pivot point would give a perfect chain line without chain growth. So in my book that seems to be favorable.

What do you mean reaction forces are supported by the frame and will not disappear?

[nutnspecial]

I'm thinking it means the motor power will limit suspension aptitude when on the juice- but looking at the picture it's true to not seem apparent. . . . although I understand now it isn't a typical serial; motor power doesn't run thru the cranks- there's two chains?

Certainly neematic will be good for much more than 1.5kw! My bht is happy with frequent 6kw (pkw? ) peaks- even moreso with some speed, but what it would hold constant (or real) is unclear.

[John in CR]

there was still a design fault in the proto: the motor is mount in the pivot point, with reaction torque supported by the frame. this way reaction forces dont disappear like if it was supported by the swing arm itself. Something that can be solved easily by design though. Still i got no definite answer yet that they will change this With a slight redesign i think this can outperform the LMX P2 inboth terms of handling and power/weight. The first picture Allex posted looks promising

Hm not following you here. *guess I should have paid more attention back in school*
I would think that motor in pivot point would give a perfect chain line without chain growth. So in my book that seems to be favorable.

What do you mean reaction forces are supported by the frame and will not disappear?

It's got nothing to do with chain length, of course in the pivot cures that. Anchor the motor to the frame and the chain pull acts on the rear suspension...increasing squat on acceleration and brake dive with regen. These effects are amplified with the compliant suspension of a bike. Anchor the motor to the swingarm and the opposite happens, and increasing the height of the pivot magnifies it. While the feel would be different (odd at first according to Toolman2) compared to a moto, anti-squat and anti-dive are desireable, and is still easily accomplished with the motor centered in the pivot point.

[sn0wchyld]

there was still a design fault in the proto: the motor is mount in the pivot point, with reaction torque supported by the frame. this way reaction forces dont disappear like if it was supported by the swing arm itself. Something that can be solved easily by design though. Still i got no definite answer yet that they will change this With a slight redesign i think this can outperform the LMX P2 inboth terms of handling and power/weight. The first picture Allex posted looks promising

Hm not following you here. *guess I should have paid more attention back in school*
I would think that motor in pivot point would give a perfect chain line without chain growth. So in my book that seems to be favorable.

What do you mean reaction forces are supported by the frame and will not disappear?

The torque force is between the swingarm and the rest of the frame - accelerating will try to pull the suspension arm 'up' and make the bike squat under acceleration. That is of course if it is attached to the frame and not the swingarm, which doesn't seem clear from the pic either way as far as i can tell...

edit
ah john beat me to it. reminds me, i'll get that example of coupling a motors torque to the swingarm (when not mounted to the swing arm) up later this week.

[agniusm]

[macribs]

Suspense is killing me. Wonder when they go live, and give us all the details.

What they have shared looks good that is great specs, water colling as standard that should say something.

[Allex]

Holy crap they use pinion gear drive, this thing will be expensive

[agniusm]

[macribs]

Damn this thing creates a craving. It is looking stunning, and seems it has the performance to match the look.
Does anyone recognize the motor?
This might very well be the bike of 2016.

[agniusm]

I think the motor is something all on ES knows only heavily modified.

[macribs]

I for sure have no idea what motor they are using. In this pic the motor seems kind of tiny.

Seems like an inrunner the way motor is attached to the frame, anyone care to make a guess what motor it has?