Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

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Ohbse   10 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Ohbse » Mar 02 2020 3:16am

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Mar 02 2020 12:24am
- Battery specs say 50V 2.2 kW. Do they mean 12S @ 110aH of an undisclosed cell type?
Website says a 6 hour recharge so aprox 18 Amp charge? Batteries are supposed to be hot-swappable
This is such a stupid, embarrassing error to neglect the kWh on your own launch brochure. By the sounds of it, pack is likely 14s. To deliver 15kw it's going to be doing at least 300 battery amps. Sounds possible, but unusually high. Math doesn't really work out with 18650's though, 3ah cells means this would only be 14s15p, borderline for doing 15kw of output for any sort of decent lifespan. It's something I would do for a hotrod project, but probably wouldn't recommend for an actual product. Possible it's some kind of higher power output prismatic cell or a power focused 2170 :?:

Charger seems pretty anemic for this kind of product, much, much worse than the Surron? Really?

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by sn0wchyld » Mar 02 2020 4:42am

Ohbse wrote:
Mar 02 2020 3:16am
JuiceMeUp wrote:
Mar 02 2020 12:24am
- Battery specs say 50V 2.2 kW. Do they mean 12S @ 110aH of an undisclosed cell type?
Website says a 6 hour recharge so aprox 18 Amp charge? Batteries are supposed to be hot-swappable
This is such a stupid, embarrassing error to neglect the kWh on your own launch brochure. By the sounds of it, pack is likely 14s. To deliver 15kw it's going to be doing at least 300 battery amps. Sounds possible, but unusually high. Math doesn't really work out with 18650's though, 3ah cells means this would only be 14s15p, borderline for doing 15kw of output for any sort of decent lifespan. It's something I would do for a hotrod project, but probably wouldn't recommend for an actual product. Possible it's some kind of higher power output prismatic cell or a power focused 2170 :?:

Charger seems pretty anemic for this kind of product, much, much worse than the Surron? Really?
300A isn't that hard to deal with from a conductor standpoint, cells will be run at ~7C (15/2.2), quite a few 18650 esque cells that can manage that in bursts (VTC6 for example) - 2 yr battery warranty too so they at least have some confidence in their cells, though i'd want to know the fine print (ie if its pro-rata etc). Im surprised they stuck with a 50VDC system for 15kw... might be easier to get switchgear for that voltage vs say 72VDC.

and yea missing the H in kwh is a goof, though it could be a draft version of the brochure, such typos are easy to do.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by izeman » Mar 02 2020 12:45pm

sn0wchyld wrote:
Mar 02 2020 4:42am
.. and yea missing the H in kwh is a goof ...
To be precise, they were missing the "h" in the kWh. IF we are talking SI units.
Sorry, but I was drilled to use correct units during my studies, or otherwise fail the exams :lol: 8)

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Chambers » Mar 03 2020 2:22am

My guess on the voltage would be a legality thing ?

From memory over 60 volts is considered 'high voltage' and requires extra certification for road use - assuming they are considering a road legal model in the future

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by izeman » Mar 03 2020 3:04am

Chambers wrote:
Mar 03 2020 2:22am
My guess on the voltage would be a legality thing ?
From memory over 60 volts is considered 'high voltage' and requires extra certification for road use - assuming they are considering a road legal model in the future
I thought the same. And it's the only reason I can think of as well. You need to go through a lot of certification to get something over 60V approved.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Merlin » Mar 03 2020 8:03pm

in germany yes. but not a single company homologates in germany.
they go all to spain or italy because(only a guess) its easier there. even for car manufacturers.

lmx and surron has 16s -> 67v fully charged. both street legal. and iam pretty sure lmx hasnt the money to pay more than needed on homologation.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Chambers » Mar 04 2020 2:16am

Pretty sure BZH is an electrical engineer - could be wrong?

From memory the electronics either need to be designed or certified by an EE for 'high voltage'

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by madin88 » Mar 04 2020 2:34am

Isn't it nominal voltage which will be taken and noted in the papers?

I don't know for sure but in my case, which is quite funny, i have tricked them out a bit since i have 20s which are split into two 10s packs i just wrote down 36V x 2 and they took it :mrgreen:

Another reason why they went with 14s could be that such controller version has higher power density.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by izeman » Mar 04 2020 8:49am

madin88 wrote:
Mar 04 2020 2:34am
.. i have tricked them out a bit since i have 20s which are split into two 10s packs i just wrote down 36V x 2 and they took it :mrgreen:
If that works, you could also say it's 20x 3.6V ;)

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Merlin » Mar 04 2020 7:48pm

madin88 wrote:
Mar 04 2020 2:34am
Isn't it nominal voltage which will be taken and noted in the papers?

I don't know for sure but in my case, which is quite funny, i have tricked them out a bit since i have 20s which are split into two 10s packs i just wrote down 36V x 2 and they took it :mrgreen:

Another reason why they went with 14s could be that such controller version has higher power density.
in my coc(k) papers are 60v ^^

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scrambler   1 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by scrambler » Mar 22 2020 5:04pm

And another newcomer in the light motorcycle segment
https://www.torpmotors.com/

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 22 2020 5:20pm

some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Jonboy   1 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Jonboy » Dec 01 2020 3:53pm

Mailed UBCO (europe-Justin) today as this story is going on & on for a FRX1 ..

I like this thing and thought i'd give them aother shout.. :roll: .. I got a response within an hour of mailing.. "we expect to start the production next year".. How long can I wait lol

I want a mid drive preferably with pedel setup cos I can get away with murder where I am like this.. plus I mtb & dirtbike so it's no prob riding with pedals- either way - but it would know seem this has been pulled..

Mid - drive wise, I can't get what I want from qulbix although I've been loyal & had a couple frames from them & they've done well... They won't sell me a core MD without dnm suspension, zee brakes & I don't know what controller FFs.... that I don't want!

At a bit of a loss :roll:

Cheers.. Jonboy

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scrambler   1 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by scrambler » Dec 01 2020 4:00pm

Jonboy wrote:
Dec 01 2020 3:53pm
Mailed UBCO (europe-Justin) today as this story is going on & on for a FRX1 ..

I like this thing and thought i'd give them aother shout.. :roll: .. I got a response within an hour of mailing.. "we expect to start the production next year".. How long can I wait lol

I want a mid drive preferably with pedel setup cos I can get away with murder where I am like this.. plus I mtb & dirtbike so it's no prob riding with pedals- either way - but it would know seem this has been pulled..

Mid - drive wise, I can't get what I want from qulbix although I've been loyal & had a couple frames from them & they've done well... They won't sell me a core MD without dnm suspension, zee brakes & I don't know what controller FFs.... that I don't want!

At a bit of a loss :roll:

Cheers.. Jonboy
Welcome to the disappointed club of the original Neematic fans :)

Your only option for high power and pedaling bikes are the LMX-64 and the SEM Venom

If you don't mind a single drive train, you have Bikes based on a Bafang Ultra and upgraded with the Innotrace / Archon X1 Controller (2300W/ 3000W peak) like the recent WattWagons Ultra Bike.

Given Wattwagons offers the Archon Upgrade for any Bafang ultra, you can also look at other MTB with a Bafang Ultra and plan the Upgrade.
Last edited by scrambler on Dec 01 2020 4:26pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jonboy   1 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Jonboy » Dec 01 2020 4:13pm

I been disappointed for a while with them .. both the bikes u recommend I know of and seem fab.. I need a bit more :bigthumb: :bigthumb: tho .. if you know what i mean 8)

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by Merlin » Dec 01 2020 4:33pm

bunch of losers are they.
4 years now i think. thats completley bullshit.

imagine if they EVER GO TO THE MARKET and you have a problem like a flat tire or an empty battery.
they will need minimum 6 months to find the "error" and another 3 months to fix that.

nobody can take them serious.

NOBODY!

The Pedal stuff was the last line of beeing other than a surron.
now its a wannabe surron and not even yet on the market. LOL

they didnt build a single bike for sale. only done some pics and videos in 4 years. what a bunch of dickheads :D

IF you are a beginner. you could at least build 1-5 bikes and "try" to selling these. L I K E every beginner do....
LMX for example.
and they homologated them in 1/4 of the time.

Impressed - forgotten - disappointed - angry - hate - neematic :mrgreen:

i wish i could meet one of those crackheads in real to show him how they can bind their shoes. :warn:

PRW   10 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by PRW » Dec 01 2020 5:44pm

I visited the head office in September this year (in Tauranga, New Zealand). Basically, the salesman didn't know much about the specs of the bike, and had no idea as to when (or if) production would start. He didn't seem too interested....
ubco.jpg
ubco.jpg (260.63 KiB) Viewed 419 times

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by sn0wchyld » Dec 05 2020 6:22am

Jonboy wrote:
Dec 01 2020 3:53pm
Mailed UBCO (europe-Justin) today as this story is going on & on for a FRX1 ..

I like this thing and thought i'd give them aother shout.. :roll: .. I got a response within an hour of mailing.. "we expect to start the production next year".. How long can I wait lol

I want a mid drive preferably with pedel setup cos I can get away with murder where I am like this.. plus I mtb & dirtbike so it's no prob riding with pedals- either way - but it would know seem this has been pulled..

Mid - drive wise, I can't get what I want from qulbix although I've been loyal & had a couple frames from them & they've done well... They won't sell me a core MD without dnm suspension, zee brakes & I don't know what controller FFs.... that I don't want!

At a bit of a loss :roll:

Cheers.. Jonboy
Check out Boxxbike... I would be off visiting the manufacturer about now if not for covid... but hoping to have one before summer (northern hemosphere). Looks great on paper and they have a good rep.

edit
viewtopic.php?t=94174

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DasDouble   100 kW

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Re: Neematic - 20kW middrive bike

Post by DasDouble » Jan 02 2021 11:09am

PRW wrote:
Dec 01 2020 5:44pm
I visited the head office in September this year (in Tauranga, New Zealand). Basically, the salesman didn't know much about the specs of the bike, and had no idea as to when (or if) production would start. He didn't seem too interested....

ubco.jpg
That sounds like to me that this bike is just a show bike of a brand of "what they are capable of".
Familiar with what prototypes Ive been working on for some big car company in the past.....

Its a pitty. :x :evil:
Mechatronics-Engineering Student
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~14kW, 3.2kWh LiIon, QS 205 8ml ff, hubsink

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