Robs bike build

robo4

100 mW
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
41
Hi Guys
first post

I have been learning a lot from this site so I thought I would share my build
first a big thanks to all the contributors to this site, what a vast knowledge you have created

I started with an idea, and a pit bike this would be easy as all I needed was a battery holder !
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and started to make some parts
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this lead to that
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and now I have this
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I have a QS 205 ordered and I have already received the 80a 84v controller
there is a gearbox going in but I had to modify it a bit and also lengthen the crank
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hard to see but these are the crank bearing holders for the gearbox that's running backwards !
2.5 to .9 in 5 steps (with a neutral between 4th and 5th)

next mission is to lengthen the swing arm to fit a 19 inch wheel and create some sort of steel dropout
I also have 120 18650's to assemble as a test battery to prove the concept before I purchase the 500 new ones that will fill the frame
should be going by Christmas

and if this post works I'm going th have a bourbon 8)
 
Welcome to ES. That was some first post you posted. Your half way there already.
 
Nice carbon molded frames. I've been contemplating on doing it as well. I've had experience with glass and kevlar boat hull construction, this seems very doable with just a box (battery box frame)!! Looking great ! Thanks for sharing. 8)
 
well im pretty pleased with how this is all going
here's a shot of the finished frame
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the construction was all done with sections pictured below
with 2 layers of 200gm carbon on each side of a hex shaped stiffener 3mm thick
these were cut and laminated together with at least 2 more layers at the inside joints
and finally skinned with a single layer that overlapped each joint
total is 2 layers inside minimum and 3 layers outside minimum
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any way my motor turned up today (quiet exciting !)
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I needed to get the 200mm wide axel as my dropouts are wider than the bike style ones
the axel is thicker too with 12mm flats there is going to be a bit of lathe work to get a freewheel to fit
but I've got a heap of "meat" to play with
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a closer look at the front sprocket shows I need to modify one of the crank holder cases to get some clearance
the sprocket needs to be about inline with the swing arm but it's all negotiable at this stage
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OK starting to form the dropouts this will be doubled with a bolt on steel piece but I need to keep the alignment straight
so this is the way I'm doing it , these will get welded into the swing arm to lengthen it about 100mm
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in these lugs
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oh and this is a basic moulded side panel in process, this ones cured overnight so I can move it but its hard after about a week
simple moulds are the best but do use cannuba wax as a release agent
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and finally a shot of my controller with a carbon cover on the table to help stop water from coming in to the battery box where the cables enter
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some may look at his and say it needs to be in the scooter / motorbike section
and maybe it does , but it does have pedals, and they are quite wide !
I intend to build this as tough as I can as I have a son who will thrash the hell out of it , and he's already eyeing it up
 
Very nice carbon frame. This is a bicycle catagory period since it has pedals :roll:
More pics! Is your swingarm from a dirtbike?

If you axle length is that long, might as well go with a fat rim and 4.8" tires. That will ride on top even the softest sand at the beach!
 
hi beach rider
yes the "donor" frame was a pit bike Prostar ? brand or something Chinese I expect, only used the steering tube and swing arm pivot tube in the new carbon frame so the suspension fits easy
fat tyres will fit very easily , but I think I'll get rims at 19 x 1.8 / 2.15 size
there's not a lot of beaches that I will be riding on mainly dirt, road and tracks here
there was a bit of conversation around having high strength bike parts to hold up to the stresses these motors put the bikes through
that's why I'm making this from pit bike parts they are at the lighter end of the motorbike scale
but well up to the strength required, hopefully

by the way I am open to suggestions and help on things from anyone about anything
I have read as much as I can but there will always be bits I have missed
and I'm cut and pasting different ideas from ES so I may be going completely off the rails with some ideas
and I'm more inclined to have fit and function over form
as for the photos , they are a bit blurry once resized but they will keep coming as the build progresses
 
there is a gearbox going in but I had to modify it a bit and also lengthen the crank
hard to see but these are the crank bearing holders for the gearbox that's running backwards !
2.5 to .9 in 5 steps (with a neutral between 4th and 5th)

I struggle understanding the concept of your QS 205 and the use of a gearbox.
Are you planning to mount the motor a mid motor?

From the pics it seems the motor is already in the swing arm. How will you make use of the gearbox?
Are you putting in a pitbike gearbox just for having variable gears for the pedals? Or am I missing something here?
 
yes macribs, the gearbox is for 5 speeds for the pedals
all a bit experimental
 
Hmm it seems your feet will take on extra work by turning the gearbox, a 10 speed cassette and triple front ring not enough?
With the 205 in the rear your bike will not very pedal friendly or at least I find that to be the case with the 205. I pedal along mostly ghost pedaling. It seems your setup with a pitbike gear box will be even less pedal friendly due to added weight, and added cogs to spin internally in the gearbox. And unless you are one of the guys the really really enjoy riding bicycle uphill in steep climbs for maximum cardio and muscle workout I think that when you start riding and you get hooked on the torque from that 205 it will be very hard if not close to impossible to pedal much, you will be to busy grinning, laughing and having a ball.


For the exercise I prefer spinning, with stationary bikes. :)
 
yes macribs I believe you are correct in the "not pedalling much"
and also in the grin factor

but with graphite in the gearbox instead of oil as it wont be getting hot there should be less internal friction
and a bit less maintenance than exposed gears if going through bush/forest, I do wish to keep the pedals, if only for a bit of exercise
at the current stage of this build I have only spent money on carbon fibre and epoxy ($200), the 205, the controller, the pit bike cost me $100 NZD with no motor about a year ago, some other necessities such as the throttle, heat shrink, and a cheep display, everything else came from bits in my shed
so far I'm up to a grand and I expect the total build without battery's will be $2,000
and add that again for the battery's
 
its been a busy week so far

these are the dropouts before welding
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and after,(not my welding)
I've done a bit of testing on some of the off-cuts and the seem like they are up to the job strength wise
so adding the steel plates may not be required once I put the pinch bolts in but we will look at it again later
I still feel like I need the steel plates just for piece for mind
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you can see I have machined the hub down to give more clearance for the free-wheel
and added a "oil hole" and sealed up, still have to drill a pin hole in the plug for a vent, and will put something in the hex as a filter/breather, so the rear wheel is lining up well now.

I have been working on the seat assembly
View attachment 7
add a bit of triangulation
View attachment 6
the only tube I had for the seat was quite heavy wall so I skimmed in a bit in the trusty myford
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and welded it in place , and yes the welds are a bit crap looking but structurally will hold up
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oh and the shear thrill of lacing up a rim
I stripped 4 pitbike wheels to find the correct length spokes
the QS motor looks to be drilled not quite right as the spoke holed are almost inline but not quite
that took me an entire day to get done and the rim is an old one 19 x 2.15 that's seen better days but it came up true enough
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I spent 3 days on these little black screws,
making the thread inserts , epoxying them into place and then cutting the screws down so they don't protrude into the battery,
but that carbon fibre looks so good, and I haven't even had it in the sunlight yet !
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here's a photo of the cut down gearbox , still have to sort out the shift cables to go on the shift drum at the front , thinking of having M/C throttle on the left hand but don't actually want to have a moving grip if you know what I mean , still looking for options
will have to be a twin cable setup though

so here's where I'm up to , still have to order a front rim , a 32 hole to fit the hub, yay another rim to lace up
View attachment 2
 
Nice build! Haven't seen much carbon builds around here other than NYX. Can't wait to see in the daylight.
 
I cant wait to see it finished ! Its a bomber carbon bike ! even with the gears and all.
Awesomeness!

btw, you cant make a seat out of carbon? is it too fragile to mold a pyramid shape seat style out of CF i guess ? might fail at the bolts to frame with riders weight. Which spokes rim size you got them to fit the qs motor?
 
hi beach rider
yes it is based loosely on a picture of a bomber but there is nothing that is the same, its just eyed up

as for the seat post , I was thinking of a carbon triangle but the design of fixing to the frame was too difficult to mould
and so I went with steel for safety and ease of manufacture

wouldn't want the bits to snap and have shards of composite cutting the meat and potatoes would we ?
but in theory its quite doable

the seat was salvaged of a bike that the dogs had chewed up so I re-foamed and covered it in stretched leather , its come up nice

rear rim is 19in, spokes length were in the range of 150mm but there are 3 different lengths and I didn't measure them sorry
I have the drive line sorted now
had to make a freewheel holder/spigot unfortunately my myford doesn't have the correct gears to cut a 1mm thread so I used .040"
and eased the last few threads by hand with a file , worked in the end
the final gearing I worked out at the design stage
I "should" have 2 wheel rotations per crank turn in 1st gear at .9 ratio and nearly 6 wheel rotations in 5th gear at 2.5 ratio
I liked the idea of only 5 gears as I don't have to keep in the optimum cadence ? as I have a motor
and I think I will have enough "range" of ratios for say 20 - 80kph

I have just started on the battery and had to break out the gas torch soldering iron to get the heat into the cells but its coming together
also started on the connectors for the phase wires I don't think i'll have a connector at the wheel as I don't intend changing the tyres too often , and would be an exposed joint that could cause issues (maybe)

I do have a question that I cant find an answer for
as I don't currently have a rear disk setup can I get away with using the e-brakes ?
the controller has 2 types but I don't know what they actually do
one is a single wire and the other has 2 wires
one is E-ABS but I don't know which one
I think I have regen braking as well but I'm a bit unsure what actually activates this, there is 2 wires that join to activate regen

this is what I think happens , please correct me if I am wrong

A-1
with regen connectors together when the single brake wire is earthed the regen operates slowing the bike
A-2
or this single brake wire disconnects power from the motor to be used in conjunction with the front disk

B-1
when the 2 wires for the other brake are connected together this is E-ABS that uses power to slow the bike (to a stop ? can this replace a disk brake)

I will have a disk on the front
remember I have never had any dealings with an e-bike before and so I am as green as Kermit the frog when it comes to controllers
and their actual workings , but I would like to get the basics sorted before I get to 80kph

and I'm sure someone will ask what sort of controller , its the new model from Greentime (yes I know)
it's got back to back fet's, 24, with the solid copper strip wiring inside , if that helps
I can take photos of specifics if required
 
Robs,
From what ive read, regen can be used for braking power as most people do but can do damage/cause loose to axle if regen is too high (preferably programmable on different regen settings) If regen too high can also cause deteroration to battery due to high amp.
You are right on how regen works with that controller. I have one exactly like that but at 48v version, I dont use regen though, got hydraulic brakes.
Connect regen wires, it is activated by the low brake wires. You can have a separate button for regen activation or to brake line, should do just fine. Hope that helps.
 
ok guys

need a little help

so I have the controller hooked up to my battery and motor
and things are running sweet
I have throttle, 3 speeds and a throttle cut for the brakes

what I really want is an electric hub brake

but I cant get the E-ABS or regen to operate
I have the regen wires connected and I have a single brake wire
where do I put the single brake wire to in order to get braking and please don't say earth as I don't really have anything hooked up to a "earth"
any ideas ?
 
after some more reading I'm thinking I got this concept wrong
maybe I don't have regen
but does that mean I can't get any braking force from my controller ?
 
I've done some more testing in search of electric brakes
the 2 wires for low braking just chop power to the motor
the single hi- brake wire does the same if supplied with 12V power
but still no actual braking

maybe I need to buy another controller with regen enabled and compare the 2

however there was a photo somewhere on ES that showed a different wire from a pad marked "X" that was supposed to be EABS specific

the "reverse" function works but the wheel has to be stationary to "switch"
I might just hook this up to an unlabelled handlebar switch just to screw with unsuspecting riders
 
Thats odd, low brake should activate EABS~same as regen. It does that simultaneous to cutting power to motor. If your motor stop abruptly, thats Regen braking. Try HALL learning first see if that activate EABS. You dont need to solder the EAbs on the board, thats for a more permanent activation without wires, but if there are wires connected-done.
 
yes did the self learn on startup

both brake switches chop throttle but wheel just coasts to a stop same as if I manually chop throttle
I am looking for the "abrupt" stop but haven't found it yet
 
Could be a faulty controller. If that the case i guess try solder the eabs on the board see if that works, could be a short from the wires or solder joints
 
hi beach
I don't think its faulty
just not configured yet

here's some photos of my controllers innards
View attachment 3
see the red box
in it is some choices
it says

7.5k--60v
5.6k--64v
3.6k--72v

there is some posts on ES about the greentime controller's that suggest changing the value of the resistor to suit the power supply to enable the regen function,
so the resistor this writing refers to is labelled 7501 its a SMD? type
so should I change it to a 3601 ?
as I am running at 84v

and next to it is 2 pads that say 60v and are jumped
should I also de-solder these pads so they are not jumped ?

controller is rated at 48-84v
with low volt cut out at 41.5v (currently)


I don't mind soldering circuit boards , done it before , but usually have some instructions to follow
any one know about these mods before I screw it totally ?

back of board
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side
View attachment 1

wires
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I think the wise choice is to get another controller that is setup for EABS and compare the two

i'll use the first one until I do that

I'm sure there are people who would be interested in the changes
 
Your controller looks identical to mine, i got it from Ebay. Its the 48v 3000w version 24fets. I posted the innards on this thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71128&start=325 which has info on those jumper for voltage select.

Which capacitors do you have? 48v version got 80v cap, 72v has 100v. Dont go over the voltage on caps or they melt.
 
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