Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by Hyena » Mar 06, 2017 10:59 pm

liveforphysics wrote:I built it for riding single-track, and the power demands will be so much less off road it shouldn't have any thermal concerns. If it does have thermal drama off-road, FF and hubsinks should meaningfully help.
Yeah you will have no thermal dramas single tracking it!
You may have to get creative to make the existing hubsinks fit due to the larger diameter but even FF alone should take care of it.
Even 10kw is too much most of the time on singletrack - as soon as you open the throttle you're instantly teleported towards the nearest tree at a rapid rate of knots and then hard on the brakes again. It's great fun to ride at the limit like that, but it's the limit of the trail, not the motor :)

Sketch and I rode some gnarly single track doing all the worst things you can to kill a hub motor - steep uphill climbs, switchbacks, low speeds, powering hard out of twisty turns dumping many kw straight into the windings at the motors least efficiency and with hubsinks and FF even mxus motors at 10+kw remained amazingly cool (we took IR temp readings at the top).
I really need to get the video uploaded because it's a great testimonial to what sort of punishment these motors can take with this cooling methods.
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Mar 07, 2017 1:01 pm

Good stuff! Can't wait to see it up and running! Man, belt drive AND schlumpf drive?!? Sounds like a dream bike! :D Very curious how your battery will be set up, guessing LiPo?
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by multifrag » Mar 08, 2017 7:58 am

Impressive build! Can't wait to see it finished. The only part I'm a bit concerned is your tire choice. Having a lot of power at the wheel but wasted through the tire because of lack of grip is not ideal, specially for 1/4 mile.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 08, 2017 9:55 am

multifrag wrote:Impressive build! Can't wait to see it finished. The only part I'm a bit concerned is your tire choice. Having a lot of power at the wheel but wasted through the tire because of lack of grip is not ideal, specially for 1/4 mile.
On this short of a wheelbase, I have a strong hunch wheelies and flipping over backwards is a greater concern than the tires traction. Deathbike is long enough that you really do need a grippy tire.
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by fechter » Mar 08, 2017 10:29 am

liveforphysics wrote:
On this short of a wheelbase, I have a strong hunch wheelies and flipping over backwards is a greater concern than the tires traction. Deathbike is long enough that you really do need a grippy tire.
How about using a MEMS gyro tied into the throttle for automatic wheelie control? Sort of like a Segway.
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by steveo » Mar 09, 2017 10:02 am

liveforphysics wrote:
multifrag wrote:Impressive build! Can't wait to see it finished. The only part I'm a bit concerned is your tire choice. Having a lot of power at the wheel but wasted through the tire because of lack of grip is not ideal, specially for 1/4 mile.
On this short of a wheelbase, I have a strong hunch wheelies and flipping over backwards is a greater concern than the tires traction. Deathbike is long enough that you really do need a grippy tire.

100% on that luke, i completely overlooked the wheelie part...

to be honest, this was one of my top concern when i built my bike. I really wanted a Nyx bike, but the cost of that frame, and having to make a custom swing arm was over my budget. I did contact NYX if they would build a custom swing arm, but they would not. So i contracted a friend of mine that was into metal working for the custom swing arm.

If you can't put the power down, all that power is useless!

My front tire just comes off the ground slightly.. and believe my my swing arm is really long. My biggest problem is my ass staying on the seat during WOT pulls. You should know what i mean by this on Deathbike lol

-Steveo
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by fechter » Mar 09, 2017 3:42 pm

steveo wrote: My biggest problem is my ass staying on the seat during WOT pulls. You should know what i mean by this on Deathbike lol

-Steveo
This might help:
Bicycle-Seat-04-Black-Side.JPG
Bicycle-Seat-04-Black-Side.JPG (30.29 KiB) Viewed 1172 times
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by steveo » Mar 09, 2017 5:24 pm

fechter wrote:
steveo wrote: My biggest problem is my ass staying on the seat during WOT pulls. You should know what i mean by this on Deathbike lol

-Steveo
This might help:
Bicycle-Seat-04-Black-Side.JPG
would work like a charm probably, it will make me feel like i'm 100yr old :mrgreen:, not that there is anything wrong with that LOL
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by Doctorbass » Mar 09, 2017 11:16 pm

To make a swing arm extension especially on the NYX bike frame is really simple. The swing arm on these frames are like flat bars.. witch is much more easyer than many other to attach extension to these! I mean who can not make a mecanical extension on a flat bar! :lol: and then you correct the angle of the rear shock and that's it

Image

That frame is so strong it could hold a 75-7 motor right on the front of swing that arm! just like the deathbike was!


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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by toolman2 » Mar 10, 2017 7:11 am

steveo wrote:at 650 phase amps burst, i say 2-3 drag runs before you will feel motor saturation with no cooling installed.

will you be doing any cooling mods to the motor?, or you going to break in the winding a bit, then think about adding it later :twisted:

Any hub motor i've tried will usually start to feel power loss around 100-120c.

Very cool build, well done luke, i wish you all the best with achieving your 650phase amp ebike build!
If a motor is saturated it will happen the second (excessive) current hits the coils, from what i have tested it does not change greatly with temperature.

Sometimes the magnets are not up to the job with temperature, but they don't usually suffer as they don't get as hot as the coils. Im curious what is might be that you have noticed though? -i know the copper losses are a big player with temp -as they almost double from 10deg c to 150deg.

BTW nice bike Luke, this big diameter motor at 40mm width is an awesome and much needed step forward in hub motor design that more folks should be looking to get their hands on. -and in the 100kph+ speed range would likely be able to OUTPUT say 15-20kw ish that i don''t think folks would ever get to see with the much famed 200mm Cro/Mxus type hubbies.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by steveo » Mar 10, 2017 9:08 am

Doctorbass wrote:To make a swing arm extension especially on the NYX bike frame is really simple. The swing arm on these frames are like flat bars.. witch is much more easyer than many other to attach extension to these! I mean who can not make a mecanical extension on a flat bar! :lol: and then you correct the angle of the rear shock and that's it

Image

That frame is so strong it could hold a 75-7 motor right on the front of swing that arm! just like the deathbike was!


Doc
For Lukes application this is possible, with my motor it would of been simply to "fat".. you know 60mm dual winding stator and all .. with moped 13" tire :mrgreen:
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by steveo » Mar 10, 2017 9:26 am

I don't know the exact technical reason, but motor surpasses 100 degress +/- i start to feel my WOT launches slow down a bit... still fast.. but slower :roll:

motor cools down, power is back up for the first couple WOT.. then repeats etc..

toolman2 wrote:
steveo wrote:at 650 phase amps burst, i say 2-3 drag runs before you will feel motor saturation with no cooling installed.

will you be doing any cooling mods to the motor?, or you going to break in the winding a bit, then think about adding it later :twisted:

Any hub motor i've tried will usually start to feel power loss around 100-120c.

Very cool build, well done luke, i wish you all the best with achieving your 650phase amp ebike build!
If a motor is saturated it will happen the second (excessive) current hits the coils, from what i have tested it does not change greatly with temperature.

Sometimes the magnets are not up to the job with temperature, but they don't usually suffer as they don't get as hot as the coils. Im curious what is might be that you have noticed though? -i know the copper losses are a big player with temp -as they almost double from 10deg c to 150deg.

BTW nice bike Luke, this big diameter motor at 40mm width is an awesome and much needed step forward in hub motor design that more folks should be looking to get their hands on. -and in the 100kph+ speed range would likely be able to OUTPUT say 15-20kw ish that i don''t think folks would ever get to see with the much famed 200mm Cro/Mxus type hubbies.
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by Doctorbass » Mar 10, 2017 12:00 pm

steveo wrote:I don't know the exact technical reason, but motor surpasses 100 degress +/- i start to feel my WOT launches slow down a bit... still fast.. but slower :roll:

motor cools down, power is back up for the first couple WOT.. then repeats etc..

toolman2 wrote:
steveo wrote:at 650 phase amps burst, i say 2-3 drag runs before you will feel motor saturation with no cooling installed.

will you be doing any cooling mods to the motor?, or you going to break in the winding a bit, then think about adding it later :twisted:

Any hub motor i've tried will usually start to feel power loss around 100-120c.

Very cool build, well done luke, i wish you all the best with achieving your 650phase amp ebike build!
If a motor is saturated it will happen the second (excessive) current hits the coils, from what i have tested it does not change greatly with temperature.

Sometimes the magnets are not up to the job with temperature, but they don't usually suffer as they don't get as hot as the coils. Im curious what is might be that you have noticed though? -i know the copper losses are a big player with temp -as they almost double from 10deg c to 150deg.

BTW nice bike Luke, this big diameter motor at 40mm width is an awesome and much needed step forward in hub motor design that more folks should be looking to get their hands on. -and in the 100kph+ speed range would likely be able to OUTPUT say 15-20kw ish that i don''t think folks would ever get to see with the much famed 200mm Cro/Mxus type hubbies.
Steveo, when the winding temp is high the electric resistance become high. So the max phase current drop ad voltage is near constant. :wink: The max current you can dump to a motor winding is limited by the dc resistance the phase have.

That's also why when some controller mosfet blow, this happen often when motor is cold at the begining of the ride... when the fets have to fight some low winding resistance!!

Doc
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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by steveo » Mar 10, 2017 12:07 pm

very good info there Doc, well said sir!
Repair Thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
Hub Monster bike ~ 24s7p A123 15.4ah/18kv Six Phase Motor/Dual Max-E Adapttos/32kw~42.91Hp/Est 140LBS
X6 Kmx Trike ~ 24s4p 20ah/X6 MHM 602/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/20Kw~26.82Hp/Est 120LBS ~SOLD~
Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
EV Outboard ~ 12s8p 40ah/5KW GM Inrunner/Infinion EB324 IRFB 4110/18Hp Evinrude Drive/Est 100lbs
http://www.youtube.com/user/trdfreak03

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by macribs » Mar 10, 2017 12:32 pm

Steveo have you considered artificial cooling of some sort? Either a carbon copy of perforated sides and scoops like John in CR, fan forced frappé, Ferrofluid or oil bath? As temp is lowered so is the resistance of wires, copper etc. Also the rise of resistance is kind of bad spiral. Heat produced makes resistance increase, to make similar power you need to dump even more current into motor. Pushing your controller further. The added push from controller with the increased resistance makes more of the power turn into heat and temp rises even higher; and so does resistance.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by John in CR » Mar 12, 2017 11:32 pm

macribs, no "scoops" on my motors. In fact the centrifugal fan blades function in exactly the opposite manner by flinging air away from the blade tips to create a low pressure region behind the blade and suck air from inside the motor just like any centrifugal fan. ie the blade side is the exhaust side of the motor.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by macribs » Mar 13, 2017 3:14 am

I stand corrected. I blame that one on the last pour of scotch friday night :wink:
Point still stands, your solution worked well for you, correct?
Last edited by macribs on Mar 13, 2017 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 13, 2017 5:32 am

Image


So close now...
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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by Rix » Mar 13, 2017 7:58 am

That is sick Luke, going to rip for sure!

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by Wheazel » Mar 13, 2017 9:40 am

So what's left to fix?

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by ridethelightning » Mar 14, 2017 4:57 pm

rear disc for 1.. :D

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by macribs » Mar 14, 2017 5:06 pm

Regen for the win :wink:

Have you worked out what controller to use?

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Wheazel wrote:So what's left to fix?
More hours in a day and more days in the week. Just got back from Italy and Germany, and heading out to Shanghai and then Taipei in a few days.

My consulting business is raining work globally right now, and I'm loving traveling the world and helping remove any obstacles from mass global EV use.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by John in CR » Mar 15, 2017 12:19 am

liveforphysics wrote:... I'm loving traveling the world and helping remove any obstacles from mass global EV use.
You're the man! The more EV's in use, the cheaper and better batteries will become, and beyond my own selfish reasons wanting that, it will make the world a better place.

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Re: Nyx frame, 273mm*40m V3 hub, and 650A

Post by Doctorbass » Mar 15, 2017 12:20 am

liveforphysics wrote:
Wheazel wrote:So what's left to fix?
More hours in a day and more days in the week. Just got back from Italy and Germany, and heading out to Shanghai and then Taipei in a few days.

.
Next project suggestion for you Luke! : Building an electric plane faster and more energy efficient than Solar Impulse for your travel !

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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