Building a custom e-bike frame

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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 28 2009 3:41pm

After my last e-bike (grayborg) is done it is time to make a new one. Concept is the same, batteries in frame and full suspension but the frame is different this time. It is CrMo tubes and carbon. Also approach is new, draw all the details and then make the bike. This is the first that i made this way all other are "build first -draw later or never". Frame is made to accept 60 cillindrical LiFePO4 10Ah cels, Bms, kelly controller and charger. also 6 regular 9/12/15/18 Ah SLA will fit. Swingarm is designed to hold up to 12kw and 250Nm of torque. Complete frame with very strong swingarm joint and swingarm is little under 5kg. New is also detachable half-swingarm so you can change the tyre without taking off the wheel. The torque arms are integrated in dropouts and they are 10mm thick. The bike will have some thing like "docking station", basicly fixed stand with 72V15A charger. All other parts will be standard MTB parts except form must have min. 100 travel. Now some progress pics...

first frame sketches
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jig sketch
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jig cutted
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assembling jig.
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The jig is made this way because I found piece of steel 15x200x2000mm in my workshop. :)

Tubes that I wanted is impossible to find neraby so I waited them 3 weeks and they came from Ukraine. Quite cheap...
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Then tubes are cut and hydroformed...
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All parts came mixed...
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After 30 minutes of sorting and counting...
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everything is ready for welding...
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Dropouts with torque arms
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Swingarm joint with cranck axle
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52 pcs. puzzle (the box say 3-5 years but I plan to do it in a month... :) )
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down batt holder with logo...
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Working...
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Also the logo is changed...
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To be continued...
Last edited by HAL9000v2.0 on Jan 29 2009 5:45am, edited 1 time in total.

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Russell   10 MW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Russell » Jan 28 2009 3:49pm

Awesome :D

Looks like a lot of parts; are you gonna build more than one?

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by cargo » Jan 28 2009 5:05pm

.
Last edited by cargo on Apr 01 2010 2:16am, edited 1 time in total.

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wanders   100 W

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by wanders » Jan 28 2009 5:42pm

Looks like HAL9K.V2 is making 10 to sell and one to keep :D. How much will it weigh (exclusive of batteries)? The fitments look pretty beefy for the frame and rear dropout to weigh only 5 KG. Does this "GrayBorg" take your custom fork?

Willie
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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by voicecoils » Jan 28 2009 6:00pm

fantastic work. you've progressed quite quickly since completing the CAD design! :P

Can you explain your motivations behind the frame and suspension design?

Everything looks very well thought out but the frame shape and suspension looks like high end MTB's of the mid 1990s.

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 28 2009 7:12pm

:mrgreen: Wow really nice job you did HAL !!!

I might me interested in one unit!

The battery location look similar to my actual Mongoose modified bike frame! but your's look much more stronger!

This frame look exactly what i will need to test my future custum 5306/5303 clyte 10kW motor! with 18mm thread axel!

Did you fabricated multi units to sale some of them?

Also about the larger disk brake will you sale them and are they built to accomdate popular wheel hub?

Doc
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CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 29 2009 3:12am

Russell: At first I plan to build 2 of them, one for plettenberg one for cristalyte, but after I put some drawings on our local e-vehicles forum I got 6 orders over night so I am building them 11 for now.

Cargo: Yes it is quite inovative and new approach :) I am planing to patent it. :9 Tubes are:
Head tube is 35x2,5mm so ISO 1" bearing can be fitted inside.
Frame tubes are 30x2mm
Seat tube is 31,7x1,5
Swing arm tubes are conical other dia is 22mm and thicknes at dropout is 2,5 and at joint is 1,5mm
Tube for front shifter is also 31,7x1,5
Swing arm joint is 35x2,5mm and axle is 20mm bushing is made out of PA6.

Wanders: I plan to keep 2 of them :)
ProE said that with rear shock and crank axle weight is 5,78 kg. ProE never makes mistakes...so far...I'll put it on scale as soon as the first frame is done.
Grayborg monster fork have standard 1" tube so it will fit. My recomendation is to use fork with minimal travel of 100mm to keep the bike geometry.
The tubes can be lighter even for 50% but this 2 kg extra don't bother me if I am shore that bike is stiff and strong. And I saw how "Standard" frame is bending under x5 torque on 100V 60A...

Voiceciols: You hit the spot...As my final goal is ultimate downhill e-bike (max 15kg with motor and controller, min 250mm travel front and back, speed on 20° hill min 50km/h...) I made souch design --->double pivot arm,295mm travel rear, 0 chain growth --> http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo34 ... wing-1.jpg, and I also bought turnigy 80-100 and plettenberg predator 63 and one 120A controller and one 250 A watercooled controller. Souch bike can not handle the mass of hub motor.
But I missed silence of hub motor, hub motors are cheap and that is why I build it this way. It is mild downhill bike for a town, Rear suspension is prooven on Grayborg, it is comfrtable it can bear with small curb jumps, it is better for longer wheel base and it is , again, cheaper this way.
I think that new rear suspension designs are just marketing, world champions are still driving single point suspensions...
But, yes, next one is definitly RC bike.

Doctorbass: Now I have tools and technology and I can build some more. My intention is not to sell it but it came out this way. As this is not my job, it is my hobby and I did it all manualy and in my spare time it is a long process. The first one I plan to finish sometimes in March. I'll let you know...
If you mean rear disc, it fits on x5 motors. It has 8 holes 222mm dia. For front disc I made custom hub. Somewhere on forum is pictures...
And I will have 5306 (single speed) motor as well but it didn't came still...
I accept A123 currency... :)

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Miles » Jan 29 2009 5:34am

HAL9000v2.0 wrote: I accept A123 currency... :)
:)

Nice work, Hal.

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Mark_A_W   100 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Mark_A_W » Jan 29 2009 6:36am

Wow.

It's really neat.


Where do you get bottom bracket LH and RH taps? I guess Getadirtbike has a set.


Oh... you may not be able to patent it now you have shown everyone...I guess it depends on your local patent law.


And stop using that evil ProE and start using nice Unigraphics NX6 (yes, I can use ProE, I'm properly trained and everything)!! :wink:
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 29 2009 8:21am

I don't have 1,375"x24TPI taps, I have M35x1, althou it is close it wouldn't fit so made them on a lathe. It was PITA to adjust 1,375" in metric. I screw up first two and than made 13 pieces out of 1 meter pipe...(with a BIG help of chef operator). I made a few extra if I screw up them with welding...

Patent was a joke, I was talking about patenting building "first draw then build" because I do not know nobody who does it like this at home...

ProE rulz!!! I think you are not trained enough! :lol:

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Miles » Jan 29 2009 8:59am

HAL9000v2.0 wrote: ProE rulz!!! I think you are not trained enough! :lol:
Training? What's that? :shock:

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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 29 2009 3:02pm

Image

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 29 2009 4:43pm

HAL9000v2.0 wrote: And I will have 5306 (single speed) motor as well but it didn't came still...
I accept A123 currency... :)
Did you contacted Oyeah (John) from treo ingeneering or have you another contact to get that 5306 ?

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 29 2009 4:51pm

Dont know that guy. I get it from local Crystalyte dealer ARTAS d.o.o.
And just got called today to came to test drive new 5305 and 5306.
I'll let you know tomorow.

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 29 2009 4:57pm

HAL9000v2.0 wrote:Dont know that guy. I get it from local Crystalyte dealer ARTAS d.o.o.
And just got called today to came to test drive new 5305 and 5306.
I'll let you know tomorow.
That look very interesting!!

i'll keep an eyes on that for tomorrow! :wink:
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

pwbset   1 MW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by pwbset » Jan 29 2009 6:28pm

Mass. Produce. Plz. So I can afford one. :D

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by John in CR » Jan 29 2009 8:09pm

HAL,

Can you please host your pics elsewhere? I can never see your stuff and end up drooling only over the text description. Fantastic idea for the detachable split swingarm to avoid disturbing the wiring harness side just to change a tire. I can't wait to see some visuals.

John

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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by voicecoils » Jan 29 2009 10:39pm

HAL9000v2.0 wrote: Voiceciols: You hit the spot...As my final goal is ultimate downhill e-bike (max 15kg with motor and controller, min 250mm travel front and back, speed on 20° hill min 50km/h...) I made souch design --->double pivot arm,295mm travel rear, 0 chain growth --> http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo34 ... wing-1.jpg, and I also bought turnigy 80-100 and plettenberg predator 63 and one 120A controller and one 250 A watercooled controller. Souch bike can not handle the mass of hub motor.
But I missed silence of hub motor, hub motors are cheap and that is why I build it this way. It is mild downhill bike for a town, Rear suspension is prooven on Grayborg, it is comfrtable it can bear with small curb jumps, it is better for longer wheel base and it is , again, cheaper this way.
I think that new rear suspension designs are just marketing, world champions are still driving single point suspensions...
But, yes, next one is definitly RC bike.
Great, I think it will be an excellent urban warrior :D

I don't know if all new rear suspension designs are marketing, trying to optimise a design where pedal power is not robbed but the suspension still operates correctly is tricky. Bike companies *DO* use fancy names for what boils down to a few basics suspension designs/concepts but still, perfection has not been obtained.

I agree about DH champions on single piviot bikes though, Orange being the most famous example (orangebikes.co.uk) See the attached PDF of their 2009 224-evo. It even has headtube adjustments for the internal bearing cups 8) I like to imagine an 223 style bike with a small powerful brush less motor running through the single pivot point. :D
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Vim   10 W

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Vim » Jan 30 2009 12:01am

That is absolutely Brilliant! I want one with pedals :mrgreen:
Vim

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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 30 2009 5:15am

John@CR: GOTO http://greyb.org and click on the bike.
Voicecoils: Have you seen this: ---> http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=176 click on the first link in post.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by AussieJester » Jan 30 2009 6:19am

Bloody brilliant HAL9000v2.0...i LOVE watching custom ground up builds, and this one obviously is very professional...best of luck...look forward to seeing progress...

Kim

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by Bobocop » Jan 30 2009 7:58am

John in CR wrote:HAL,

Can you please host your pics elsewhere? I can never see your stuff and end up drooling only over the text description. Fantastic idea for the detachable split swingarm to avoid disturbing the wiring harness side just to change a tire. I can't wait to see some visuals.

John
John in CR, If your right click the image then click "view image" it will show in full.

Nice design HAL, watching to see how it works out.

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by John in CR » Jan 30 2009 11:07am

Thanks HAL, now I can see, along with your other stuff I've been missing. Since my metal skills and tools are lacking, I want to go with a very minimal metal triangle for correct alignment of those items which must be metal, and then create the frame body as an integral part of the strength structure using a composite of epoxy, fiberglass, carbon, and maybe even balsa or 3mm plywood (to keep initial and/or final shaping really simple). I hope you consider imitation the most sincere form of flattery, because I feel compelled to "borrow" your ideas of the split swingarm for tire changing and large brake disk that bolts to the existing motor cover holes.

Bobocop, that way doesn't work. All I get is plain text, no hyperlink, so for example I see only this in HAL's first post (which happens to me for about 1/3 of the images in the forum):

first frame sketches
Image
Image
Image
jig sketch
Image
jig cutted
Image
assembling jig.
Image

John
Last edited by John in CR on Jan 30 2009 4:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

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HAL9000v2.0   10 kW

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Jan 30 2009 3:48pm

Dr.bass: Just see the motors. It was to cold to drive for me. (0°C) My friend tested it. I think your 03/06 will be the best solution because alone 5306 is to slow. on 72V bearly 45km/h, 5305 52km/. It will be good for higher voltage (90-110V) but for 72v is to slow. On uphill 5306 must slow down to draw the max current and 5305 is on max current at higher speed. There is allmoust no difference in acceleration on flat between 5305 and 5306 with same controller (digital xlyte 40A) and same battery 72V9Ah SLA. They choose to import only 5305 for this year and there is one 5306 for sale. And the price is quite high, 500€ with 26" rim,disc and cassete. I am sticking with my 504 at 96V50A that is more than enough for me. Another thing is that they are ugly compared to old ones. No ribs, big offset, end edgy design. They do not look as powerful as old ones. Better thing is that they are more narrow then the old ones.

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Re: Building a custom e-bike frame

Post by shinyballs » Jan 31 2009 6:02am

OMG, Beautiful!! Finally a custom frame designed specifically for high powered ebikes.
looking forward to your builds and completion...
Sale section etiquette, pls be courteous to other members, if you know of a better deal or do not agree with the sale price, do not shove links to similar products being sold by someone else in another member's post.. it's just not nice. If you suspect a scam pls FLAG the thread for moderation and it will be checked out... i know this is a tough one to call but put yourself in the seller's shoes and imagine how you would like it.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=25446

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