Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

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Hyena   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 14 2012 5:40am

Thanks for the offer amber. I ended up finding a guy who happened to be selling a few locally on ebay for $1 each. He only had 3 sets so I snapped them all up. Works out at $2.25/piece delivered which I"m happy with.
Scruffoid wrote:Should start a post of what everyone wears when they ride so we can have a laugh. Some of the guys riding in snow what be a great resource for us in winter riding.
Yeah I wear snowboard pants in the cold weather. Gotta get a new jacket, this one has a busted zip.
Oh, and the rest of this subtle gear :P

Image

Damn, it's been a year since I posted that - it's only 2 weeks away from when I feel in a heap this time last year and was handed the diagnosis of the big C.
Speaking of which I haven't posted an update in a while. It's been 6 months since I finished radiotherapy. So far so good, the tumor hasn't started growing again (yet?) so sleeping dogs are being let lie!
It seems my heart hasn't faired so well though with the heavy doses of chemo and radio I needed to have to slow the tumor up. I've been getting alot of chest pains, shortness of breath and nearly black out on a daily basis. This is a bit of a concern when riding! Fortunately it seems to be postural and I'm fine when riding the bike, it's when I step off and throw my leg over that I get light headed and dizzy. I saw a cardiologist today and they've sent me for a heap of tests. This is the relevant info on one of the chemo drugs in question:
Doxorubicin's most serious adverse effect is life-threatening heart damage. The risks of developing cardiac side effects, including CHF, dilated cardiomyopathy, and death, dramatically increase.
Due to these side effects and its red color, doxorubicin has earned the nickname "red devil" or "red death."
AWESOME! :|

So if I drop dead suddenly, voicecoils I'm appointing you to auction off my stable of ebikes and parts with all proceeds going to my funeral fund :lol:
Avoiding that, I'm fitting an arc reactor to my chest! :mrgreen:
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by voicecoils » Jun 14 2012 6:23am

Shit Jay, that Dox looks intense.

Fingers crossed for good test results & a solution to get the ticker back on track.

Let's not talk about auctioning off your megawatts of crap just yet!

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Scruffoid » Jun 14 2012 11:27am

Hyena wrote: it's when I step off and throw my leg over that I get light headed and dizzy
ROFL I have that problem to throwing the leg over always make teh blood rush from my head and makes me light headed :oops:

Sorry that has to go into the quotes thread :lol:
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hobbit » Jun 14 2012 4:06pm

How can they list "death" as a side effect! "if death persists consult your doctor..." :roll:
Kannada!! Tetsuo!!

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by sn0wchyld » Jun 14 2012 5:14pm

shit mate. atleast the C seems to have been stopped. hopefully the damage is only temporary (or atleast, causes litt;e more than an inconvenience).

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 14 2012 7:06pm

voicecoils wrote:Fingers crossed for good test results & a solution to get the ticker back on track.
Unfortunately none of the options are brilliant but hey, I'd probably be dead by now if I didn't have it so it's good that I'm around to worry about other issues.
Let's not talk about auctioning off your megawatts of crap just yet!
Heh yeah I was digging through all my crap in the garage last night and though "geez I hope she doesn't just chuck all this stuff when I shuffle off" :P
Scruffoid wrote:ROFL I have that problem to throwing the leg over always make teh blood rush from my head and makes me light headed :oops:
haha that was completely unintentional actually! No reflection on Mrs Hyena :P
Hobbit wrote:How can they list "death" as a side effect!
Yes alot of the side effects are listed as permanent, but none more so that that one! :lol:
sn0wchyld wrote:shit mate. atleast the C seems to have been stopped. hopefully the damage is only temporary (or atleast, causes litt;e more than an inconvenience).
Yeah the C is behaving for now it seems so that's one consolation, but due to the location of the tumor around my heart it was cardiac type symptoms that I initially presented with so there's always those thoughts in the back of my mind every time I get these chest pains. Most of the time the symptoms are brought on by movement or what you'd loosely call exercise but sometimes I get stabbing chest pains at rest like when just sitting at my desk. It's like someone has a voodoo doll. I'd just rather not have these random symptoms pop up when I'm riding! The other symptoms I can combat by upgrading my bike hardware :P - mirrors and handlebar mounted LCD screen with a rear view camera so I don't have to look over my shoulder (was seeing stars the other day after looking over my shoulder as a car approached from behind)
Aaaanyway, fun and games...
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New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Timma2500 » Jun 15 2012 1:14am

voicecoils wrote:Let's not talk about auctioning off your megawatts of crap just yet!
+1 You aint going nowhere sunshine!
Scruffoid wrote:
Hyena wrote: it's when I step off and throw my leg over that I get light headed and dizzy
ROFL I have that problem to throwing the leg over always make teh blood rush from my head and makes me light headed :oops:
LOL! Thats gold :lol:


Paul :)
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by sn0wchyld » Jun 15 2012 3:07am

Timma2500 wrote:.....
Scruffoid wrote:
Hyena wrote: it's when I step off and throw my leg over that I get light headed and dizzy
ROFL I have that problem to throwing the leg over always make teh blood rush from my head and makes me light headed :oops:
LOL! Thats gold :lol:


Paul :)
dammit I only just got that one... fml. :oops:

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 18 2012 9:09am

Seems today was delivery day - my centronics arrived and so did my power supply board thingo.
Jesus, talk about new old stock - how old are these centronics plugs!
A quick google revealed that that 6 digit number in bold is actually the phone number (they still have the same one but there's 2 more digits in front)
How long ago did we have 6 digit phone numbers ?! And $17.95 :shock:
centronics.jpg
centronics.jpg (90.01 KiB) Viewed 1508 times
Also quickly tested my little power supply thingo. Heath, unlike we thought it DOES actually go from 0-62v from a single 12v input. So it steps up and down which is pretty cool.
Overall the unit looks like it'll be quite useful although it's a shame the components are all at different heights - the screen sits about 10mm off the board and the caps, heatsinks etc are ~20mm up so I won't be able to put it behind a neat faceplate without some rejigging.
powersupply.jpg
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by icecube57 » Jun 18 2012 11:14pm

Dude i canceled my freakin order cause someone said it didnt stepup voltage.... GAWD! MOTHER FREAK! Awesome find still. Looks like i will keep my PSUs after all.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 18 2012 11:27pm

Sorry, blame Heath :P

I'll do some more tests later and post back, but so far it looks pretty cool.
I thought it was a bit underpowered, set at 12v and 5v and dropped to 6v and 3 amps when a 50w globe was connected. But I was powering it from a 12v supply that sags under load and just checked the specs and found it says 15v minimum voltage so that was probably the cause. I'll power it up with a 24v 15a meanwell later and see how it goes.
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 19 2012 4:15am

Urgggh I take it back. I'm going to rename this thread to "hyena's yoyo powersupply thread" :P
It does allow voltage adjustment up to 62v from any voltage but as soon as you hit GO it drops back to 1v under the supply voltage. So it IS a step down buck converter - it seems it's just the software reading the change in resistance from the V adj pot and telling you that would be the output voltage if the input voltage is sufficient...
So, back to the original plan, I'll use 3x 120w universal laptop power supplies set to 21v in series to power it. And if it proves to be inefficient at lower voltages I'll have a seperate 15v suppy.
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Scruffoid » Jun 19 2012 5:12am

why the big push to charge at a higher voltage?

Using that EMC-1200 and the hyperion 1420i I have an awesome balance charger. I balance every charge and it does it fast enough as well.

Just interested what the advantages of going to serial voltage are. Is it just less connections?
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by sn0wchyld » Jun 19 2012 6:25am

Scruffoid wrote:why the big push to charge at a higher voltage?

Using that EMC-1200 and the hyperion 1420i I have an awesome balance charger. I balance every charge and it does it fast enough as well.

Just interested what the advantages of going to serial voltage are. Is it just less connections?
pretty much, yes. the less reconfiguring of your pack, the less chance of stuffing it up. also, high power DC power supplies are usually cheaper per watt than a balance charger, and bulk chargers are generally smaller, ie easier to stuff into a backpack for away from home charging. that said tench has really shown how easy balanced charging can be...

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 19 2012 8:13am

Yeah bulk charging at full pack voltage is just done for convenience of connections but I always parallel bulk charge - using the same method as I set up for your kit scruff.
Balance charging is fine if you're paranoid but I find it unnecessary. When not raining and I'm riding to work I bulk parallel charge twice daily at 1/2 - 1C (to 4.18v/cell) and then check the balance once a fortnight. But I find the cells rarely get more than 0.03v out of whack which is perfectly acceptable. The centronics plugs I posted about previously are for convenient balancing when necessary but more so to the connection of my LVC buzzers. I do have a new secret weapon for balance charging though which I'll post about shortly.

Oh and the board I posted above isn't for a charger as such, just an all round lab powersupply for my workshop. Looking around I didn't find much this side of $150 for cheap lab power supplies and even then they only did 0-30v and 2-3 amps. This one does 0-62v and 4 amps which is more suited for playing with ebike related and other general stuff I need power for - running controllers (with another 12v in series) on the bench etc. I could charge up packs with it but at only 4 amps it wouldn't be too useful. I will use it to charge up single cells though or quickly pull up weak ones that might be lagging behind the others (much faster than waiting for a RC charger to bleed all the others back down) But as above I have a better solution for that anyway.
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New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Scruffoid » Jun 19 2012 8:31am

A good balancing solution sounds awesome.

Still makes me scratch my head in wonder everytime the Hyperion has to balance. It is really stupid.

If i have a 6s pack and 1 cell is to high then fine bleed off the 1 high one.

If i got one cell that is too low why in gods name would you bleed off the other 5 instead of single charging the low one.

Really they should start thinking of balancing at 4.17 or 4.18 in the above case then top them all up to full.

The reason i yse the hyperion isnt really for the balancing aspext but more for peace of mind. At least i know that something a lot smarter than a bulk charger is charging my bike while im sleeping after a night shift. I charge my ride in the next room to mine with a fire extinguisher beside it but at least if somethign goes wrong it will just stop. And if the pack doesnt need balancing then it doesnt do it so it is just as fast as bulk anyways.
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by sn0wchyld » Jun 19 2012 10:02am

Scruffoid wrote:A good balancing solution sounds awesome.

Still makes me scratch my head in wonder everytime the Hyperion has to balance. It is really stupid.

If i have a 6s pack and 1 cell is to high then fine bleed off the 1 high one.

If i got one cell that is too low why in gods name would you bleed off the other 5 instead of single charging the low one.

Really they should start thinking of balancing at 4.17 or 4.18 in the above case then top them all up to full.

The reason i yse the hyperion isnt really for the balancing aspext but more for peace of mind. At least i know that something a lot smarter than a bulk charger is charging my bike while im sleeping after a night shift. I charge my ride in the next room to mine with a fire extinguisher beside it but at least if somethign goes wrong it will just stop. And if the pack doesnt need balancing then it doesnt do it so it is just as fast as bulk anyways.
for sure mate, if you have a simple way of balance charging then there's little need for a bulk charger. I'm planning on stealing tench's plug system on my next build so I can balance charge every time. either that or I might just buy a second 8s charger or maybe a Hyperion charger. I do miss the reliability and safety factor of a balanced charge, particularly when you can check things like IR every charge to make sure nothing is going amiss.

dont keep us hanging too long on this new balancer jay!

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 19 2012 10:55am

sn0wchyld wrote:dont keep us hanging too long on this new balancer jay!
hehe.
Well, as above, these RC chargers are a bit dumb in they way they bleed back the high cells, to the point where I manually balance packs on occasion - whacking 5v on a low cell for a few minutes to quickly pull it back into line. I experimented with a few options, tried to get multiple isolated DC-DC converters but didn't have much luck, tried a few different types of so called individual cell lithium chargers but again they didn't deliver. I also tried PSP charger which supposedly put out 4.2v @ 2a which I thought would be good for charging through the balance taps but in reality they'd only spit out 1a or less, meaning I'd need 12 for 6S which is a bit crap. Lastly I tried mini 5v 5a meanwells. This worked but was a bit untidy and not something I'd be keen to reproduce for others. I also had to manually raise the voltage with a resistor switched across the v adj pot to keep the current high with the low delta V between the cell voltage and full charge voltage on a single cell.

But finally, I have the goods in a polished commercial product and I'll have them for sale shortly :)

Here's a teaser :P
balance charger.jpg
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If the key awesomeness of this isn't immediately apparent - it's an isolated balance charger that charges each cell individually - through the balance taps and as you an see at up to 8 amps!
In the above pic I have it set to charge to 4.18v. You can see cells 3, 5 and 6 are already there and have tailed right off before stopping. The others which are slightly behind still charge with max current or are tapering off too. This can balance a slightly out of balance pack in literally only a few minutes.
For speed you could bulk charge to 4.1v/cell or there abouts and then finish off with this if you're worried about overcharging, or just let this charge at 8 amps from the get go. And because it's so quick to balance at the top end, if you did want to bulk charge at full pack voltage and then balance each sub pack through the balance connector you could, then come back 5 minutes later and swap to the next balance tap, and then the next. Or as I plan to do, have a multipin centronics plug and charge all through that.
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New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by knoxie » Jun 19 2012 6:10pm

jizz time :twisted: awesome buddy, what the heck you got there and can I have one :D
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Drunkskunk » Jun 19 2012 6:36pm

That looks just about Awesome!

I wonder how much amperage I can put through my Zippy balance leads before they glow? :twisted:
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by sn0wchyld » Jun 19 2012 6:59pm

sounds great mate. I was just thinking of building my own out of some cccv dc-dc converters I got off ebay but this looks far nicer/safer with individual V/A readouts... any clues to price yet?

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Scruffoid » Jun 19 2012 7:38pm

wow that looks like it is exactly what we need. Awesome!

How many are you gonna have by the 15/7 :)
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 19 2012 8:14pm

knoxie wrote:jizz time :twisted: awesome buddy, what the heck you got there and can I have one :D
It would be my great pleasure to send you the first one :)
Drunkskunk wrote:That looks just about Awesome!

I wonder how much amperage I can put through my Zippy balance leads before they glow? :twisted:
Surprisingly, quite alot. I rehabilitated a few 5ah packs with this through their original balance leads and while they did get slightly warm no where near melting - and this was at the full 8 amps. So if using the supplied 4p balance board you'll have no issues what so ever.
It also comes with a temperature sensor /alarm which we know is a unnecessary with lipo as it doesn't get hot, so you could set it to 60 degrees if you wanted and jam it under the balance tap wires :lol:
sn0wchyld wrote:sounds great mate. I was just thinking of building my own out of some cccv dc-dc converters I got off ebay but this looks far nicer/safer with individual V/A readouts... any clues to price yet?
Yep, as above I went though alot of other options (and burned alot of money with failed / inadequate attempts). I wasn't able to find a good dc-dc converter solution that was isolated and as I found with the meanwells it's difficult to keep the charge current up when charging single cells without additional circuitry.

Price wise, I'm looking at a ball park of around $100.
Scruffoid wrote:How many are you gonna have by the 15/7 :)
I had to buy 10 "samples" which was a bit of a risk as I wasn't sure how good they'd be but it looks like they are indeed the goods so it was worth the gamble. I only had 1 shipped to me initially for testing with the intention to ship the rest afterwards or drop ship a few direct from China to other countries, knowing there'd be international interest. This keeps the price as low as possible for everyone - I could have them all shipped direct to me and then forward them out to where ever but it'd end up adding $20+ in postage.

Anyway I'll start a thread in the forsale section as that's where this belongs now that I'm done testing and can offer them for sale.
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New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by heathyoung » Jun 19 2012 9:42pm

That balancer looks interesting - isolated channels is nice - 8A though balance wires is cute - but bear in mind that the voltage measurement (unless it is done when the balance wires are not carrying current) is going to be well off what you expect due to the resistance in the wires + connects etc.

I'm not suprised that it was a programmable buck either, the topology looked wrong for buck/boost. :mrgreen: Look interesting though. Stupid firmware, I would have written it so it actually measured the input voltage.

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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Post by Hyena » Jun 20 2012 12:43am

heathyoung wrote:bear in mind that the voltage measurement (unless it is done when the balance wires are not carrying current) is going to be well off what you expect due to the resistance in the wires + connects etc.
The voltage is set prior to commencing charging and the resting voltage is displayed as soon as the balance taps are connected. So resting voltage is accurate and while there may be slight inaccuracy due to resistance while hot that should drop off and become a non issue once the charger is no longer in CC mode and the current is tapering off...
I'm not suprised that it was a programmable buck either, the topology looked wrong for buck/boost. :mrgreen:
Yes I defer to your superior SMPS knowledge :P
Interestingly looking at the specs it seems they have a 5, 10 and 20 amp model.
The model number on my board is ZYX60xx (or something like that) with the model number in the book being ZYX6005. So I assume the 05 at the end denotes the 5 amp model. Given my board is a xx I'm hoping that means it's the same for the 5 through 20 amp models and it's just heftier parts fitted. Is this likely ?
Not that heat is everything but the only part that gets hot is a TO220 fet on a heatsink (can't remember the model number off the top of my head but it was rated at 23a when I googled it last night). Would upgrading that yield any more current ? It's rated at over 4 times the current it's actually supplying so it shouldn't really be a limitation but it does run rather hot. I'm guessing the step down voltage reg (LM2576 from memory) is actually doing the heavy lifting but it's only rated at 3a. There's no obviously unpopulated sections of the board so I'm wondering how they do manage higher current from the same board. Unless there's an add on power section ? The traces on the back look like they could handle a fair bit of current if beefed up (they're very wide, just without much/any solder on them) Though being all firmware controller I guess that's probably a limiting factor as much as the hardware ...
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Oh yeah I forgot about that too - I have your 400w one here boxed up ready to go as well.
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Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...

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