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Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 12:29am
by icecube57
LMFAO!! I dont want that to be me it could be the thermo or it could be a real problem.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 1:04am
by Hyena
haha, home now. In my defense I was giving the bike a hiding, side cover was too hot to keep my hand on when it tripped. It happened twice, both times I'd stopped to reposition the gopro and went to take off again and *stutter*. I was doing constant hard starts though, wheelies, jumps, launching to full speed past the camera then hard on the brakes (regen and disc) and then buzzing back the other way to do it again. It only took a few minutes each time. I kicked the schlumpf into low gear a few times (first time I've used it :lol:) and pedalled for a bit but soon ran into trouble when I came to a grade. With the nice plush suspension I've set the fighter up with it really is a nightmare to put any significant pedal effort into. I'm sure playing with the shock settings would net less pedal bob but I don't intent to have to pedal hard that often so I'll leave it as is.

But yeah a dual mode cut out would be good. I was originally just going to put a buzzer inside the motor, powered from the hall voltage with a NO thermostat. But none of the ones I could find would be high enough temperature to withstand the intenals of the hub.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 1:30am
by icecube57
Hyena wrote:haha, home now. In my defense I was giving the bike a hiding, side cover was too hot to keep my hand on when it tripped. It happened twice, both times I'd stopped to reposition the gopro and went to take off again and *stutter*. I was doing constant hard starts though, wheelies, jumps, launching to full speed past the camera then hard on the brakes (regen and disc) and then buzzing back the other way to do it again. It only took a few minutes each time. I kicked the schlumpf into low gear a few times (first time I've used it :lol:) and pedalled for a bit but soon ran into trouble when I came to a grade. With the nice plush suspension I've set the fighter up with it really is a nightmare to put any significant pedal effort into. I'm sure playing with the shock settings would net less pedal bob but I don't intent to have to pedal hard that often so I'll leave it as is.

But yeah a dual mode cut out would be good. I was originally just going to put a buzzer inside the motor, powered from the hall voltage with a NO thermostat. But none of the ones I could find would be high enough temperature to withstand the intenals of the hub.
I guess 100C is hotter than expected if you said it was hot to hold your hand to it...... 120C is 248 Degrees... I had a couple motors smoking i wonder what heat does it take to get that to start happening.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 2:59am
by Sacman
icecube57 wrote: I guess 100C is hotter than expected if you said it was hot to hold your hand to it...... 120C is 248 Degrees... I had a couple motors smoking i wonder what heat does it take to get that to start happening.
100C (212F) is what water boils at so yeah... of course you can't hold your hand on it.
You get motor smoking when the enamelled film insulation on the magnetic wire starts to burn.

Insulation systems are rated by standard NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) classifications according to maximum allowable operating temperatures:

NEMA Insulation Temp Class / Max Operation Temp Allowed oC (oF)
A / 105 (221)
B / 130 (266)
F / 155 (311)
H / 180 (356)


I wonder what class insulation are on the wires of our motors.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 5:32am
by heathyoung
Its supposed to be class B or F - class H is pointless for a BLDC - for the simple reason that you will demagnetize your magnets before you smoke the windings.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 6:06pm
by Hyena
Class F would be nice but B is probably sufficient considering the halls would probably roast above 130 anyway. And I'm sure cost is a factor so our Chinese friends will take the cheapest way out!
I could smell the windings at 100 and presumably it got a little hotter than that once sitting still without any air flow. I reckon I've had the motor hotter than this before I drilled it and the windings still looked pristine so I'm not sure what rating it is - maybe closer to F ? I've also got a 9C that is nicely toasted with all the windings very dark brown but it didn't actually fail.

Anyway, here's the sweet video from yesterdays ride - if I do say so myself :P
Not that there's heaps of wild action in it but I I destroyed 2 gopro mounts making this (the death of one can be seen right at the end)
Note the big chunky rocks I was blasting over along the train line - the suspension soaked it up like is wasn't no thang :D
When reviewing the footage from the high mounted camera (on the roof of a train line signal hut thingo) I decided to do something different with it for the opening scene :)


Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 7:44pm
by veloman
Awesome video, good stuff.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 20 2012 10:46pm
by voicecoils
heathyoung wrote:Its supposed to be class B or F - class H is pointless for a BLDC - for the simple reason that you will demagnetize your magnets before you smoke the windings.
I'd rather have a salvageable stator than a complete write-off.

Are there other disadvantages to higher class insulation other than cost?

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 21 2012 5:45am
by valsislav
Excellent new video - :D

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 23 2012 12:45am
by heathyoung
voicecoils wrote:
heathyoung wrote:Its supposed to be class B or F - class H is pointless for a BLDC - for the simple reason that you will demagnetize your magnets before you smoke the windings.
I'd rather have a salvageable stator than a complete write-off.

Are there other disadvantages to higher class insulation other than cost?
Apart from having to make sure that the rest of the stuff on the stator is properly rated as well (ie. use nomex rather than PFP) - not really. Hall sensors and magnets will die long before the windings smoke with class H.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 23 2012 3:17pm
by Sacman
I just wanted to point out that the NEMA temperature classes I cited earier was just to give an idea of the temperatures that motor wire insulation can handle before the start to smoke. NEMA is only in the USA with about 450 wire manufacturers that are members and comply to the temperature class standards.

However, the motors we buy are from China... and who knows where they buy their motor wires from and whether or not those wire manufacturers comply with any similar temperature class standards. :?: :|

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 25 2012 9:53am
by Hyena
Speaking of temps I've concluded that my 100 degree thermostat might be a bit too much on the conservative side. Not so much the trip temperature, but the fact that it needs to drop quite a bit before it kick back in.
I was running late for work today so decided to take the fighter. After being at full throttle for most of the trip and often drawing 5kw it tripped on me, 2km from work. Pedalling the rest of the way slightly up hill in my heavy, lined winter riding jacket nearly killed me (aside from steaming me from teh inside out) but it actually saved me from what could have been a difficult to escape run in with the boys in blue. I had been belting along at 70km/hr - sitting behind a car that was doing the same speed when it cut out. I coasted to a stop then pulled over to switch my schlumpf into low gear (I do it so infrequently I haven't bothered trying to learn how to do it while riding) when about 20 seconds later a highway patrol car came flying up behind me. I nearly died for a second but he flew straight past me. 30 seconds later I was pedalling slowly on my way and he had the car I'd been tailing pulled over for speeding. Thanks thermostat!! :o

In other news after much research I've decided the AR drone, even the new one is probably not the best for what I want to do so I'm going to make my own quadcopter.

Check out this slick video of one in action. Obviously the guy has mad skills but the fact that they're capable of that is pretty cool. And his setup doesn't even look that powerful compared to others I've been looking at.
I'll have the gopro mounted on mine and once I'm happy with it will sort out a FPV setup with the gopro live steam output transmitted back to a LCD screen (not going to bother with video goggles) That'll enable me to fly the copter out of sight but still be able to see where it's going and to guide it back home (more range than the AR drone)

(it gets good about 20 seconds in)

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 25 2012 10:21am
by Sacman
Wow very nice! That RC 3-D pilot has got some crazy skillz too!
Made me think if that quad-copter was scaled up in size and had a real human pilot, he'd probably pass out quickly from all the G-forces pulling maneuvers like that. :shock:

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 25 2012 6:17pm
by Hyena
I think a large scale version of the wouldn't allow it to be so agile. I remember seeing a video about these smart swarm mini micro copter things and that they're amazingly nimble largely due to their size.

When I sent that link to a friend he sent me back THIS :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 25 2012 6:28pm
by shorza
That's unreal!
I remember reading something about how chopper's blades are speed limited to travel below the speed of sound. Once it breaks the sound barrier, there is too much turbulence. Physics :roll:

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 25 2012 11:07pm
by AussieJester
valsislav wrote:Excellent new video - :D
Ditto!! ;-) always enjoy watching your videos, it's obvious allot of time and effort go into making them, well done...only one small complaint Jay, where's the high sides :-P

KiM

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 25 2012 11:56pm
by Sacman
The "conventional style" RC-Copters are pretty nimble and amazing too.
Check this out... :shock:

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 27 2012 12:38am
by Hyena
The missus had the day off work today so called me up to see if I wanted to have lunch, I ducked off from work and met up with them at a park a few minutes up the road. I don't have any baby seats or anything on my bikes so it's usually too hard to try and give the kids little rides but with the large width low cut frame of the fighter it's perfect - even for 2 littlies! Giving the kids rides around the park on the fighter may have been a bad idea though. "Daddy, I think santa needs to bring me a bike like yours for christmas" heh.
Got a bit of gopro footage if anyone is interested in seeing it ? Very much a change of pace from my usual tearing around like a ratbag!

Hyena and his pups - 3.5yrs and 20 months :)
kids-fighter.jpg
Hyena and his pups
kids-fighter.jpg (148.07 KiB) Viewed 2130 times
(when asked to smile for a photo my eldest always pulls that face now. Little bugger :lol: )

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 27 2012 1:21am
by remf
Haha cool kids! They'll be wheeling you around on a futuristic 2-wheeled device in the distant future :lol:

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 27 2012 2:47am
by Trackman417
Hyena wrote: Got a bit of gopro footage if anyone is interested in seeing it ? Very much a change of pace from my usual tearing around like a ratbag!

Hyena and his pups - 3.5yrs and 20 months :)
kids-fighter.jpg
(when asked to smile for a photo my eldest always pulls that face now. Little bugger :lol: )
I'm up for some "action" :mrgreen:

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 27 2012 7:11am
by Rodney64
It's your thread, yes family shots are Important.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 27 2012 7:37am
by Hyena
remf wrote:They'll be wheeling you around on a futuristic 2-wheeled device in the distant future :lol:
I've always said I'll have the baddest electric wheel chair around when the time comes. I just hope it is in the distant future given everything that's gone on in the last 12 months... :|

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 28 2012 4:24am
by Architectonic
remf wrote:Haha cool kids! They'll be wheeling you around on a futuristic 2-wheeled device in the distant future :lol:
Surely we'll have our electric hovercrafts by then?

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 28 2012 4:12pm
by Hobbit
Actually, you're pushing around on a futuristic two wheeled device NOW.

Re: Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Posted: Jul 28 2012 6:48pm
by Hyena
Hobbit wrote:Actually, you're pushing around on a futuristic two wheeled device NOW.
Yeah but I'm waiting for THIS :P

Here's the vid of my kids on the fighter. My eldest repeating himself over and over will probably be annoying :lol: